Eamonn

Some little while back in these forums we looked at troop or unit ownership. In the days that have followed most of us have been very careful not to use My Troop or My District. I tend to agree with the premise that we don't own but do serve. Still over the years a lot of people have become mine. I have a group of people who forever will be My old Scouts and are now My friends. Please forgive me if fall victim to using the "My" word. One bad thing about growing old is that I have started to lose track of time. Not hours or minutes but years. Is it really four years since everyone was stockpiling water in preparation for the Y2K bug?? I can't remember how many years back that it was when I first met Kim. I do remember that I was at that time a Cubmaster and we met at the pack picnic that we held in my back yard. Even though I say it myself it was a great event we had a round robin of activities for the Cubscouts, they were building bird houses, painting T-shirts, playing all sorts of games. It was great. We closed with a camp fire and a awards ceremony and then fed everyone baked potatoes. Kim was thinking of allowing her son to join the Tiger Cubs. We had chatted as her son and his Dad had hammered nails into the wood to make the bird box. Over the baked potato I had put the move on her to join the pack committee. Which she did but soon moved to become a Den Leader. Soon after I left the pack,she remained as she had another little fellow to put through the program. Her mother worked for the local evening paper, so again I asked if she would join the District Committee and help with marketing, again she said yes. Over the years she has said yes to a lot of stuff serving as program director for the district day camp for a number of years and both her and her husband have served as wagon master for the council partent and son weekends. Over the years we have laughed at what a good investment I made in that baked potato. Last year when we started to recruit participants for the Wood Badge course, Kim was the first person to sign up and pay the deposit. I just got word via E-mail from her ticket counselor that she has completed her ticket. Again she is the first fron the course to do so. Both her boys are now in a troop. Her husband is an ASM and she serves on the troop committee. I was at the troop court of honor to see the older Lad become a Life Scout. Kim has received the District Award of Merit and has done wonders for both the district and at the time the pack. She worked as the crossing guard and her Scouting was and is infectious. When I was the Cubmaster we used to talk a lot on the phone and spend a lot of time in each others houses, now we just send each other the odd E-mail. Still no matter how wrong it may be Kim will always be one of My Leaders. Eamonn

I do like the idea. I thought at first that maybe a page in the Council Newspaper would be a good idea, but the people who need to see it wouldn't in our council it only goes to the adults. The OA paper has a bigger impact on the youth members. But do our youth members pay for their own uniforms or equipment? In my case I know that OJ thinks money is no big deal. We do have a Mall Show each year this would be a great place for some kind of a set up. Not sure how it would work unless everyone donated the stuff and maybe the money was used for some sort of good turn. It used to be in our house that as I hit middle age spread OJ would "Borrow" my stuff but he is now bigger then I am. So we tend to give our old stuff to people who we know are in need of it. Just this month there was a Scouting family that had a house fire, we kicked in a few bucks to outfit the Lad in a new uniform and I had a sleeping bag which had been a gift that was never used so we got rid of that. OJ has a new super duper backpack that cost an arm and a leg so he gave his old one which the old district chair had given to him. Eamonn

I have just looked at what the man of Steele has posted. Thanks Dave. Due to having gone and got myself a good dose of the flu or maybe just a cold I will need to take a little time to take it all in. In the man of Steeles earlier posting he said that I was a little emotional about all of this. At first I did take this as some kind of a "Put Down." However on reflection I saw that he was right. He was right because I agree with all the stuff that Bob White is saying and we are not doing. While I in no way hold myself up as some kind of Scouting guru or sage I have been around for a while and have read a lot of the stuff that is out there. So yes it does burn my tail when those who know better act in a way that they know is wrong. It burns my tail when they label me the "Conscience of the Council." while they opt to carry on doing something that is clear and blatantly wrong. Bob White is right that the goals in themsleves are not a bad thing. For my part in our district not making membership this year I have to admit to being a litte blase. I had kept track of the numbers and knew that the Cubscout number for Cubscouts needed was high. I thought that we would make it up on school sign up night. What I hadn't looked at was the numbers by unit. When a unit is losing boys by the score it is an up hill task to get that number back. I also have to admit that by waiting till school sign up night that it didn't give us much time to really get out and make a planned recovery. We were at sixes and sevens trying all sorts of things without a real plan. It could be that I have been a Scoutleader for too long and even when we didn't make it I viewed it as a learning experience, something that we could look back on and make improvements. More and more I am starting to believe that I am the wrong person for the position that I now hold. I still want Scouting to be about us doing real things for real kids all this other stuff is beyond my comprehension. Eamonn

While I have been around a lot of foul mouthed people and have been known to let loose maybe more then I should. I am very careful not to use cuss words or profanity near young people or those who might take offence. For a while OJ was taking more then a keen interest in the CDs in my car. One was John Lennon and "Working Class Hero", which does have the "F" word and the other was Les Miserables sound track which does have the "B" word. We talked about the use of profanity and how there are times when it is used to make a point. Just as in other art forms certain things that might be viewed as unacceptable are ok when used in that context.Still these words are not acceptable in general use and these words must be looked at as being dirty words which are vulgar and obscene. This of course led to us talking about the profanity used in some of the Rap and Hip-hop music that he likes. Not being a great lover of Rap music or Hip-hop, it would be too easy for me to just dismiss it all as being trash. However I asked him to play some of it for me,especially the tracks with the swear words. Some of this stuff is really strong and shocking. I sure as heck would not want to play it in public. But looking at it as an art form this is the language that these artists use it is in common use where they come from so why would they not use it? More shocking then the language is the way that they view women, sex and drug use. Again this is the way that these guys see the world, so why would they not write about it in the way that it is to them? In the end OJ and I agreed that if this language was used as part of what was trying to be put across that it was ok, if it was only being used for shock value it wasn't. I still am not a great lover of this kind of music, still I am trying hard to understand it. The strange thing is that OJ never uses foul language. Eamonn

Bob White is of course right in what he has said. I of course already was aware of what Quality Council or for that matter Quality District really means. As far as Quality District goes, our District has been a Quality District six years out of the past seven. Just like any other volunteer my pay check remained the same. However at her annual review one year Pam our DE was a little upset as her performance was rated as only marginal and when she asked how a DE of a district that was quality could only be rated as marginal she was informed that Quality District was expected performance. I have no part in what goes on at these reviews that is between her and those who sign her pay check. I am just a volunteer.She may or may not have met the expectations of her duties outside of the district, that is none of my business. Over the time that I have served on the key3, we have strived towards the goal of Quality District because it was the right thing to do and yes maybe at times ego has played a part. We do want to showcase our district as being a winning team. A couple of years back when we were three Boy Scouts short of the goal and were over the number needed in Cubscouts I did go to the parents of three boys from my old pack and ask if they would cross over a month early. They were of course of the right age and everything was in order. This was as near as I have come to cheating. Yes I did collect the Quality District plaque and yes I had given all the members of our district noise makers so that they could feel part of what was going on and be part of the celebration. Of course I was aware that I had nearly crossed the line. But it wasn't for me. I sure as heck do not need another plaque and I don't wear the patch. I have always viewed the fact that we made it as a pat on the back to all those who made it happen, the units that went the extra mile to recruit and sell popcorn, the community FOS people who I think are the unsung heroes of the district. I also have to admit that when I got the three apps I made my way to the Council Service Center and didn't spare the horses, I also paid the $1.00 transfer fee out of my own pocket. So while Bob White is 100% correct and while I agree that the goal is a worthwhile goal. Along with the fact that some of us will never understand why cheats act the way that they do. What I want to know is there something that I'm missing. Is not making Quality the big black mark on a professional job application? For my part I know that I have lost all respect for the people involved in this misguided effort to do what? I do know that I will be making a donation to the endowment fund not the FOS. This will mean that we will not meet our district FOS goal and may result in the District not being a Quality District. I will also go out of my way to try and get all the money that we raise as a district from special events to go the same way. While it may seem a little petty it is the only way at this time that I can see of getting my point across without doing too much harm. Eamonn

Twocubdad That would be a great idea only none of the Districts are Quality - Only the Council is? Kind of like winning the war after you have lost each and every battle. The sad thing is that while everyone knows that this is wrong the powers that be want it to happen. The Region wants to be Quality, the area wants to do what the Region wants and the Council wants to please the area. The big loser is the end user our youth, not only have we lost all credibility, not only has the Scout Law been pitched out with the dirty dishwater but there is the matter of the money. Money that ought to be spent on the real members. Then what happens next year? Do we fork out another $3K or will we need to enlist another 300 youth and pick up that fee as well? Eamonn

Strange thing is that the people at both Irving and at the Supply Center do recognize my voice!! I wonder why? Eamonn

1. Why reaching the goal of Quality Council is do or die? 2. Other then the recognition of your peers is there some prize that is unknown by us mortal volunteers? (Yes I know about the plaque.) 3. How a Council with four districts, none of which are a quality disrict can be a quality council? Only one district met it's financial goal. This was the district that needed the least number of youth members for quality district. It needed 82 Cubscouts. The other three districts needed more. So it is safe to say that at least 331 youth were needed, more if they were not Cubscouts and the goal was the two percent growth. 4. How one meeting with a school the day that the school breaks for Christmas vacation can bring home over 331 youth members? 5. The membership fee for this "Crew??" will be picked up by the council. This will cost a little over $3,300.00. $3,300.00 which could be put to use for real members. How do I in good conscience ask people to donate to the FOS campaign when I know that the money is lightly to be frittered away? 6. This is the same council that has a pay freeze with no chance of a salary increase for any of its employees. The very same council that has just done away with its Assistant Scout Exec. All this due to lack of funds. I am supposed to be over the moon about this good news - Why? 7. Am I wrong in thinking that when the goal becomes bigger then the health and welfare of the council that it is doing more harm then good? Please don't get me wrong, in the past I have moved heaven and earth in order to ensure that our district was a quality district. Yes some of the stuff that I have done has been near the mark. Still at the end of the day I have never lied or cheated and my integrity was intact. Sad to say I don't feel that way about what we have done and are doing. Worse still will be when people stand around patting each other on the back saying what a challenge it was and how well we have done. As yet I am unsure what I want to do about all this. This really hurts I keep telling myself that this is the Boy Scouts and if you can't trust them who the heck can you trust? Of course I might be missing something. But so far I can't see it. If I thought for one minute that these new 331+ youth members were going to get something out of the program I might be able to get past my misgivings. But while I hate to say it right now I doubt if they even know that they are the latest new members of the BSA,or in fact if they even exist anywhere other then on a school directory. To my mind we have lost sight of where we are and where we ought to be going. As a volunteer I would love our council to be a quality council, but the way that I feel right now I'm ashamed to even say that I belong to this hideous,disreputable rabble. Eamonn

Dave He is 15 and at the rate his project is going - Who knows?? Eamonn

While I am a Queens Scout, in my day you got the award and there was no gift giving. Maybe we were just cheap?? I have attended a lot of Eagle Scout Court Of Honor ceremonies, some parents really go to town and get letters from everyone from the President down. I even seen one Lad who got a letter from Bob Hope. There is a web site,if I can find it I will post it. The Scout catalog has a lot of ideas. If OJ ever gets off his duff and reaches the rank I think that I'm going for a really good watch with some sort of message engraved on the back. I might also pay for him to go and work as an International Camp Counselor some place in Europe. Who knows he might find a wife - I did !! Good Luck Eamonn

While I tend to agree with most of the stuff that NeilLup posts I don't on this one. Wood Badge is an adult training done with and only for adults. While I'm fine with presenting anytime and anywhere I don't agree that youth members gain very much from a Wood Badge ceremony. Many of the ceremonies that occur in our district are at a round table. We have had a few presented at the troop site at summer camp. When I completed the old Cub Wood Badge which at that time was a regional course, all the participants from Westmoreland Fayette Council - All three of us!! Invited all the staff and all the participants to a Wood Badge Court of Honor at our Council site. We started with a lunch and then went to the camp fire circle where the presentation took place with a lot of ceremony. Those who wanted spent the night as they had come a fair distance. It was a super weekend. My first Boy Scout Wood Badge was presented at Roland House in London, the house was left to the English Boy Scouts by Lord Roland and in my day was used as a training center and a hostel for young men who were working with Scouts from the East End of London, a fairly run down area of London.Sad to say due to lack of funds the house closed in 1982. Eamonn

Not sure if I ought to start with the good the bad or the ugly?? THORNS: Not making Quality District. More about that later. Selecting the wrong guy as District Commish. The Field Director. Hearing that my old troop was closed. OJ not doing anything to start his Eagle Scout project. Dark thoughts about quitting this game. Not getting a District Web Page off the ground. Not getting a District Venturing meeting off the ground. Loss of faith in this organization. More about that later. That list is entirely too long. ROSES: NE-IV-153. A really good course. The Staff of the course.One person in particular. A Lady who over the years I had clashed with and it was a well known fact that we didn't see eye to eye. She was great. It only took me ten years to work it out. Attendance at District events went through the roof. Camporees were down to less then 50 Scouts but thanks to some help from you all in these forums we managed to put together a really good program and we have gone up to almost 200. Many thanks to Mike F. Being invited to serve on the Regional Committee to organize area 4 World Jamboree troops. My selection as Scoutmaster for the 2005 National Jamboree. Making most of our goals towards Quality District. I have a great committee. Our DE. She is the best. Time spend with the youth members. Growth in Boy Scout and Venturing membership. Acting as master of ceremonies for the Council Recognition Dinner. The worried look on the Field Director while I was the master of ceremonies. Fighting for the job of the Assistant Scout Exec. And keeping him in the council. While I didn't win I didn't lose??? The participants at all of the training's that I attended. All of them seemed to want to learn how to do it right. If only I could work out what happens when they get back to their home unit?? So many smiles and at times laughter that was painful. Eamonn

eagle90 and I must share the same Santa!! I got the same "Scout" present. DE did give me a box of popcorn. You all have three guesses as to what brand. Eamonn

Peace and Joy Eamonn

I'm unsure what a MoS is? Here is where I land myself in hot water. The OA while it does a lot of outstanding work at our Council Camp sites building things and getting the camps ready for summer it really does nothing with high adventure. Our Lodge meets four times a year on weekends and holds a banquet once a year. I also don't know how your organization is run as far as age groups but the younger Lads aged 12 and 13 do they really need this? Back in the UK when I was there Scouts were from age 11 to 16. We did a lot of weekend camping in the summer up until October, then we eased up over the winter. Easter which was a 3 week school vacation was when we would take the Patrol Leaders to visit where we would be going for summer camp. These Lads really thought that they were the cats whiskers, not only were they the only ones allowed to go but they had the inside track on what was happening. We of course had the hikes and outings that the older Scouts needed to do for the Chief Scouts Award. Again I don't know how advancement works over there. Here in the US after First Class everything is done on or with Merit Badges. Back home while there were a few required proficiency badges there was a lot of required activities, these alone were enough to provide the adventure that the Scouts needed. My son is active in the OA,he likes it because it is not a troop activity. While there are others in these forums who know the set up far better then I do, it is a complicated structure. The Chief of the fire is the Council Exec. He appoints a Lodge Advisor and from there down it is boy led. Anyhow I wish you all the best of British luck Eamonn

People in our District thought that I was a little tough and at times heavy handed when I was the District Commissioner and I tried to fix the Commissioner Staff. Me thinks that if Dan was the man on the spot I would have looked like a kitten. Dan, please don't think that I am picking on you but it seems that you have missed the entire charter concept. The Leaders that you want to replace are not ours to replace, these volunteers were selected by the charter organization. I do think that we need to do a better job of working with and for our chartered partners. However this too is a two way street many are happy to just allow Scouting to happen in the church hall or where ever and not get involved. Still we need to go out of our way to "Get in their face." We need to meet with them and tell them what their unit has done, let them know how many of their Scouts went to summer camp, how many of their Cubscouts advanced in rank. There is one council I think it is Hawk Mountain that has not dropped a unit in many many years because they meet with each and every unit during the year and cover this sort of thing. Those who attend the meeting are the DE, the Unit Commissioner and a another member of the Key3. We seem to spend a lot of time talking about "Getting The Word Out." Then we don't talk to the people who have ownership of the unit?? One of my pet peeves is that we allow the DE to become the dogs body of the District. It isn't cost effective and hurts the District. Our DE works from her home office, someone needs something from the Service Center which is 25 miles each way. Off she goes, we pay the mileage and the toll along with her time. Fedex would be far cheaper. During this end of the year Membership drive there has been weekly staff meetings again the 50 mile round trip for something that could be done with a conference call. While I know that I don't sign her pay check I would be far happier if this time was spent meeting with the charter organizations or bringing in a few more workers for the FOS. Eamonn

I don't know and can't speak for anyone elses son but OJ is a busy little fellow. He plays soccer and is captain for the school team. He is on the track team, is in the school play and the chorus as well as being in the troop as the new SPL and the Crew. He is a Vice Chief in the lodge and still turns his homework in on time. While I have done my stint as both a Cubmaster and a Soccer coach, I have had little guys ask if they could leave early or come late to pack and den meetings I have never had a little guy ask to leave soccer to go to a pack or den meeting. The problem does not seem to be with Boy Scouts and sports. The downward trend in membership is at the Cubscout level, we just don't seem to be pulling in the boys of this age group. I think some of the changes that we have made to enable more Cubscout camping are for the good. Still there is something that isn't working. At the Tiger Cub level it isn't retention it has to do with recruitment. I was talking with a pal of mine across the pond in England who serves on the Committee Of The Council, he tells me that their Beaver program is working well (Beavers are the UK equivalent of our Tigers.) They are coed so it is hard to look at them in the same light. But from what he says in a lot of the rural areas there is waiting lists to join. Again this is a sign of not having enough leaders. Eamonn

I really do want to wish everyone Joy and Peace this holiday time of the year. We will be spending a very quiet Christmas here in PA. No big plans to go anywhere or do anything. Mass on Christmas Eve a few phone calls to the kin in Ireland and England on Christmas Day and lunch at Seven Springs. Over the holiday I will take the time to reflect back on 2003, looking at what worked and what didn't. The good times and the not so good. It will be our last Christmas in this house, soon we will be lost in the hustle of moving. No sooner will we get that done then we are off to Ireland looking for a small house. We had hoped to retire to the farm but the darn thing has started to pay its way, so we are house hunting again. There isn't going to be a lot of time for Scouting next year. This year was busy, my first as District Chair and my first time out as a Wood Badge course director.I will take the time over the holiday to give this all some thought and will let you know what I come up with. Eamonn

Ok, so my reading is not all that it should be but the Father Brown books by Chesterton I have read along with some of the stuff that he wrote about the Catholic Church,have to admit that the mysteries were more fun. Eamonn

Cover your ears DS. While I am an ardent supporter of the council and think that we need to do what we can to ensure the success of our councils I don't think that summer camp is part of this support. We need to keep Scouts in the program if the annual trek to the same old place is not capturing the imagination of the Scouts go camp some place else. It is better that we keep the boys in the program then have them leave because they are bored. Of course if the Council Summer Camp is that bad it needs to change. Each district has a camping chair who meets with the Council Camping committee. So while jacuzzis and dancing girls might not happen, if there is room for improvement that can be done it needs to be brought to the attention of the camping committee. I really think that a lot of Scout camps seem to forget that the Scout at camp has paid to be there and is a customer.We need to start treating him as such. The aim of a camp is to meet his needs. The camp is only there because of him and for him. Ok Dave you can uncover your ears /eyes now. Eamonn

We are a small council each of the four districts offers Cub Scout Specific training at least twice a year any Leader can attend any of the training's. As a district we try to move it around the district at times we are closer to the neighboring district then parts of our own. As Council Training Chair I have asked that on top of these training's that we offer training as and when there is a need. When the training changed we had a slight problem with equipment. We had been using 27 inch VCR/TV combos. We managed to get a lot of TV sets from the local hospital when they got new ones and we bought cheap VCRS. When the group is really small we have moved the VHS tape to CD so it can be viewed on a laptop. While there are some Cubscout Trainers who are happy to just present in one area we do try and pair them up with a "Newbie". We charge $3.00 a one time fee to cover the cost of the Trained Patch and photocopies. The big problem that we seem to face is getting people to pre-register, some do but most don't. This of course means that at times we have no idea how many or how few will be attending. I have seen as many as 50 turn out and then as few as 18. We will never ever turn people away but this at times does make life hard. At times we have had one group that is really small and another that is really big, so trying to get all the groups to finish at the same time is kind of hard. So far finding a place where we run five groups (Yes there is a training for cubmasters and one for committee members) has never been a problem. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I shudder to even think about the loss of a son. My heart and my prayers go out to the family of this Lad. We would all do well to check what insurance cover the council has before we set out on some of the more dangerous jobs at camp. We had a fellow who wasn't following the rules fall off a tractor and break his arm. He was off work for several weeks. Our coverage paid all of his medical bills but did not pay for the time that he missed from work. I carry an AFLAG policy which does cover this sort of thing. Eamonn

Ok so I'm cheating I don't belong to a crew but OJ does. They have ten members one of them a female. Three active adults one a female. Been around for eleven months. They are a little lost as to what area they are in. Some of the adults think it is high adventure? So far one car wash. They try for a activity each month. So far their big thing was organizing a District Camporee with a pioneer days theme. No awards to date. Most of the members come from the Boy Scout troop but plans are in the works?? Todate the council is not doing anything but the District Chair is such a nice fellow!! Eamonn

Yes the Cubmaster can also be a ASM or even the Scoutmaster. There are a lot of wise words and good advise here so far. Still at the end of the day the Scoutmaster has to take the bull by the horns and either continue to run whatever it is that he is calling a Scouting program or get off the pot and do it right. If the fall out means that a couple of ASM's hit the bricks, so be it. We need to look at their job title Assistant, they are there to assist the Scoutmaster, the person in charge of the delivery of the program of the BSA. If they can't or are unwilling to do this would them leaving be such a great loss? Once the Scoutmaster has got his house in order then he might be willing to take support. As I see it now he is pandering to a bunch of adults and not putting the boys first. Eamonn

Not sure where the numbers are coming from? As of November 30,2003 there were 960,683 total of boys, Boy Scout age participating.I don't have the population numbers for this age group but the U.S. Census is showing a total of 21,316,742 for males aged from 10 through 19 years of age. Eamonn