Eamonn

We have a very long thin council which covers two counties. I happen to be really lucky in that I live almost dead center in the middle. The Service center is only a 20 minute drive. Of course the guys who live at the far end are not as lucky. As a council we are aware of this and try to move things such as events like council dinners and the like around from one area to another. As Taining chair. I held meetings in each district. As far as the store as a council we will pay the postage for awards and the like. Your council might want to give this a try. Eamonn

CubsRgt8 Thanks for the link. I have saved it and will send it to both the DE and the Membership Chair. Hey it's quiet around here without the Steele man. You know he might be watching all the 007 movies with that other Steele guy in them. Eamonn.

Ozemu, I have to admit to finding some of the stuff that you have posted a little - Shall we say "Near the mark?" Please don't think that I am in anyway putting you or your postings down. In fact I have a very good friend who is a GSL (Group Scout Leader) In London who tells it as it is - Just as you have. I have to admit that while I never bought a copy of any porn mag. The English newspapers (It used to be the Sun on page 3) Had a topless "Babe?" every day. And while I never liked the paper I did every now and then have a look. I really like the way you reminded me about Respect. In fact I don't know why it didn't hit me sooner. Back when I was a Scout in the UK. The seventh Scout Law: A Scout has respect for himself and for others. I think that they have made a slight change to the wording. Still at the end of the day maybe the big thing is not sex, maybe it is just respect. Respect for everyone. While I may not be at ease talking about sex. I don't have a problem with respect. This would include the male, female and the unborn. Then there is honor. Maybe we need to spend a little more time looking at what "On my honor" really does mean? Eamonn

We had a very dissatisfied Crew Advisor in fact he was the Assistant Council Commissioner for Venturing. He felt that as a council we were not at that time doing enough for Venturing. The Crew was close to the border with Greater Pitt. He said that he was moving the Crew. As far as I know he went Iam not so sure about the crew. I would hope that before you think about moving that you explore everything that can be done to make things better. While you might not be able to get a new Scout Exec. Or change the world. You can make in roads within the District. Really when push comes to shove the role of the Council in the life of a unit is very minimal. I know that as a District Chair. If someone took the time to sit down and explain what was so wrong I would have to do something. While I am just a volunteer and still put my pants on one leg at a time I do represent the district at the Executive Board. The district is the units. Eamonn

As a District we now have a member of the Membership Committee tracking the Scouts who opt out. 2003 was the start so there are a lot of things that need to be worked out. Mostly to do with the timeline. As a District we have to wait to see who isn't on the charter that was on the last charter. So we don't know when the Scout opted out. We are doing this by phone which is not ideal. But we don't have the manpower to visit each Scouts home. Some people are asking why are we doing this? I happen to think that it is easier to keep a customer then find or recruit a new one. Most of the reasons given for quiting are due to band or sports. This year we aim to send these Lads a letter that tells them that they can do both. One thing that I find very disturbing is when asked if anyone from the troop had been in contact with the Scout or the family the answer is no. While we still have a long way to go. Last year/this year we managed to get six Scouts back into the program. Five of them back in their "Old Troops." All the Scoutmasters were happy to see these Lads return and there as far as I could see were no ill feelings. In fact it seemed to work out well for everyone. Eamonn

Hi It is really great that you have not only come on board as a forum member, but more so that you are coming on board as a active member of the BSA. While it would seem that the pack is in need of adult help. You really need to make a choice. Do you want to be the Den Leader and work with the boys? Or be the Committee Chairman? You really can not do both. Not only is it against BSA policy - But it just won't work. As a committee chair there may be times when you are required to calm the waters when the Den Leaders are at each others throats. If you are one of those in conflict how would that be? The committee is to be ready to step in if the Cubmaster is unable to serve. Would that be fair to your Den? I happen to think that a strong committee working with and supporting the leaders is vital to the health of a pack. The Committee Chair. Make this happen. Then of course there is the fact that as long as someone is wearing two hats. He or she is preventing someone else from taking the job. You need to talk with your Charter Rep. And your Unit Commissioner and see what can and must be done to select the adult help that the unit needs. Paper positions just don't work. In the end they tend to turn around and bite you in the rear end. As for the Award - Yes it is a strict requirement. Eamonn

"He that outlivea this day,and comes safe home,Will stand tip-toe when this day is named...." Dave My Old China, The best of British Luck in your quest. While I don't know where we are as a Council. As a District we are plus one in everything other then the Lads who wear the blue. Sad to say we are still 80 away. As yet we have not given up.I hope that you make it. "And gentlemen of England now a-bed shall think accurs'd that they were not here" Give em your best shot. Eamonn

Not to change the subject but.... While I was busy Scouting back in the UK. I attended the World Jamboree (Nordjam 75) We were told that we were the first to earn the World Conservation Badge. It is in the tupperware box - Somewhere. Eamonn

No there are no missing smiley faces. What would you ask a Lad who quit Scouting? What would you do in order to get him back in the program? Eamonn

Ed I think that we don't "Require" We encourage. If we go with this attendance policy and there are consequences for non-attendance. Are we then not adding a requirement? Some wise person in these forums only recently posted " Less Stick More Carrot" Eamonn

Again many thanks for your kind words. I think that we are blessed in these forums to have such a wise and learned group. While I don't agree with everyone and there may be the odd one that I'm sure just goes out of the way to be disagreeable. I feel sure that when the Man Of Steele posts he is on the money re. POR. While at the same time is not out to dot the i's and cross the t's. Bob White, who does at times come across as someone who does not suffer fools really does have a good take on how this game is to be played by the rules. I enjoy the time that I spend doing whatever it is that I'm doing with and for the BSA. The main reason being that they are good people. This might be due to that in the most part we all share the same values. Ethics in action was in the back of one of the Cub Scout books. I have never seen anything like it for troops. However I might be wrong. Still I do think that we as adults in Scouting can do very much like you did with your Cub Scouts and the arson situation. For example while not sex. I went to pick OJ up from a crew meeting. I am not a leader of any sort in the crew. I do however know all the members and happen to like them and know almost all of their parents. Somehow someway the topic of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan came up. One Lad had the idea that we ought to just kill them all!! I asked who he meant? He said all of them. I asked why? He said that they might grow up to be terrorists. I asked how he would feel if he was to be punished for things that he might do? He of course said that that wouldn't be fair. And so the conversation went on. For my part I had to be very careful not to allow my "Leftwing Ideals" get in his way. It was his job to work things out. I'm not so sure if I could manage sex. Again for example. OJ had a birthday party at the club pool. Just 60 of his nearest and dearest friends!! (When I was his age I think I had less then ten.) One Lad came that I didn't know so I asked OJ who he was. He told me his name and went on to tell me that this Lad was so funny and that he was gay. I in no way want to restart the gay debate. However to OJ this 15 year old who had made his mind up to be gay was all fine and dandy. The Lad was a real nice kid and seemed to spend more time with the girls at the party then the rest of the guys. I just don't know how or when a young boy decides that he is gay. Then this week OJ, is off to a school dance. He wants an extension to his curfew. I ask about times and places and who is going he tells me so and so and someone and the girl that he is engaged to. I show my disapproval and he informs me that they already have a baby. It is all matter of fact to him. I have to admit to being shocked. I would really like if we could find a way of helping our members make good choices in this area. While not going outside of what the books say. Eamonn

Hey Pamaha. While I agree that you have every right in the world to ask anyone anything about whatever you like and that even here in these forums there are items that can be discussed. There are things that are laid down by the BSA. When you ask and the answer is not the one you wanted. I have to ask Why bother? It is clear that even by what you have said that this "Guide Book" is wrong. Please take the time to read the mission of Scouting. Then think about it. If you still have any doubts what is going on in your unit is wrong I will be most surprized. Eamonn

Thanks Laurie. I am aware of what is in the books. Like you I have learnt a lot from lisening to both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. I really enjoyed some of the things that were part of the Ethics In Action. I had no idea when I posted that today is World AIDS Day. While I don't or would not have a problem with telling anyone that sex outside of marriage is not the way to go. Even this could be hard as some of the Scouts have parents that are not married. I in fact have a sister the mother of two who has lived with the same chap for many years. He is the father of both little ones, but they have never got married. Then I am not sure if there is a double standard. On one hand we/I am saying that you ought not be doing that and then I'm saying if you are going to do it take precautions. I have never had a Lad come up to me face to face and ask me anything about sex. Most of what I have heard is stuff that I wasn't supposed to. Am I happy taking no notice? No not really. What if anything should I be doing?The books don't go there. Is this just an area that we don't want to visit? As a parent I have had the "Talk" with my son. He already knew what all the parts did and that he wasn't found under a gooseberry bush. Our/My main focus was on responsibility. How if he became a parent it would not just be the girl who would bear the brunt of it all.He would have to share the load. Eamonn

If I was looking for a troop and was given the lists that you have stated I would run as fast and as far as I could. When did Troops ever start to prouduce Eagle Scouts? What happens if my son is not interested in the "Merit Badge of the week?" As for the rule book. - No Thank you. First I would start with the easy stuff. What night of the week does the troop meet? Will that fit into what we do as a family?What role does the Chartered Organization play in the troop? What does the troop expect of me as a parent? Still more important then asking a whole bunch of questions to the leaders in the end it would come down to what my son wants to do. How many other members of his den are going to that troop? When we visited the troop were they having fun or was the school of the Merit Badge in session? How did the leaders treat the Scouts? How was the meeting run? and who ran it? Eamonn

Nothing at camp is as much fun as a well run campfire. People keep telling me that the campfire and singing at Scout camps is on the way out. I really hope this never happens. Over the years I always seem to be the one who gets selected to put together the Song Book for Wood Badge courses and while it is a well known fact that I can't carry a tune in a bucket I am willing to get up and give it a whirl. There are a great number of songs on the net. Still I seem to remember campfire songs with the person who always will sing that song. The Cat Came Back, is one that the program director would always sing when I came over in 1977. On My Honor while we have it at most Wood Badge courses is one that my pal Mike is really keen on and I will always remember from the 2001 Jambo. I do a half decent rendition of the Cremation of Sam McKee. And the Streets Of London. Eamonn

I don't think of myself as a avid collector. I do however have a large collection of books on pioneering. Just about everything that John Sweet and Rex Hazelwood have ever wrote. Most of the stuff that Gilwell Park used to put out many years ago. Every now and then I will visit ebay and see what is for sale. Not to hijack the thread. But... I bought my subscription to the English Scouting Magazine when I was 13. There is only one magazine for everyone adults and youth. While I never collected them I never threw them out. Every month I would look forward to the magazine and read it on the way to school and then later on the tube to work. It was in this magazine that I first seen the ad for the International Camp Counselor program. Which led me to Camp Conestoga, where I met my wife. Talk about the power of advertising!! I was 27 when I got married and there on top of a dresser was my beloved pile of Scouting Mags. All 168 copies. My room was on the 3rd floor. We were moving to a small one bedroom flat (Apartment) My mother had made it clear that when I went my "Junk" was going with me and my wife had made it clear that 168 copies of Scouting Magazine would not be welcome. We were emptying my room. The idea of lugging all these down stairs was too much for her, so she opened the window and threw them out into the back yard. Last year I got my own back I bought a new subscription and have started a new pile. But we are moving so I feel sure that these will not make the move. Eamonn. Welcome to the forums. I know there are a few Scout Handbook collectors out there.

I used to be worried about numbers. If we went camping and had two patrols with only 4 in each patrol we would combine the two. When we (The PLC me as the Scoutmaster) Looked at this we seen that we were not using the patrol method. So unless there was only one scout from a patrol we would always camp as patrols. The Leaders camped and ate in their own site along with the SPL and the ASPL. While we never viewed the leaders as being a patrol. We were aware that we were setting the example. So we always looked at the leader site being in good order and our keeping on time as being very important. We were very lucky in that we had one Leader who wasn't very good with the Scouts, but loved to cook so we always had him come and cook for the Leaders. This freed the adults up to do more stuff with the Scouts when needed.

I have to admit that I am never very at ease talking about sex. This could be my Irish catholic up-bringing. At home it was something that was was never brought up.It was just one of those things that we didn't talk about. Even at school this was something that was taught not by the teachers. They brought in the people from the Health Department. A great deal of what might be called my Sex Education was done by my older brother, what I learned in the boys bathroom and at Scout camp. Maybe because of my being so ill at ease talking about it, in all the time that I was a Scout Leader I just "Didn't go there." I have presented both the youth protection tapes which for some reason I can never remember which one is which. The one for Cub Scouts, "It happened to me." When I was a Cubmaster we presented each year with the and only with the parents present. This seemed to go over well with both the Cub Scouts and the parents. As a requirement for the Jamboree all the troop had to view the other movie " A time to tell." I did inform all the parents that we were showing the movie. Had all the troop view it and allowed 20 mins for an open discussion. It was like looking at deer caught in the headlights. The boys just said there and even with a few prompts from me, it was clear that we were going no place.Maybe I was projecting my discomfort. In one of the Venturing tapes it shows a Lad on the receiving end of some sexual harassment. I have only presented this once or twice and I am not sure if it is portrayed badly or if everyone is uncomfortable. Both times everyone has met this part of the tape with laughter. I have of course over the years heard Scouts talking about sex. Sometimes I have overheard what might be called a young lad retelling his " Sexual Triumphs." I have always chose not to get involved. Mainly because I don't think that I could or can handle it. Maybe because I thought it was just part of growing up. Or maybe because I thought it was just a Lad running at the mouth.While I am very aware of how much times and things are changing. For example on Thanksgiving we had a house full of young people. While some were watching football on one TV others had MTV on and a program about AIDS. Every ad was for Trojan condoms. These kids(Boys and Girls.) Didn't even blink. It was just the norm. to them. This was a diverse bunch. One of the girls has a Morman Bishop for a Dad. At the last World Jamboree the world Scout Association had free condoms available. The arguement was to prevent STD. I have to admit that if I was the Scoutmaster and a Lad informed me that he was off to pick up a few condoms. I wouldn't know how to handle it or what to say. From my own religious stand point. I don't agree with sex outside marriage and yet even the catholic church is easing up on the use of condoms. I am very aware that the BSA will tell me to direct these Scouts and these sort of problems back to the Scouts parents and his church leaders. Still my problem is with me. I am in an ethical dilemma. While I suppose that I ought to a standpoint and know that deep in my heart that my own policy of "Taking plenty of no notice" is not right. I have to admit to not knowing what to do. Eamonn

Dave of course you are right but I don't think that a bunch of words said with no passion or conviction can really be looked upon as an oath. I have this crazy idea that young people have times when they tune it in and then tune it out. I know this sounds off the wall. But if you go over the Oath and Law with a little fellow he will hang on every word and go with it. As he gets a little older he will try to challenge it and look for the loop holes. We might think that there are none, but he will will look. This is when we have to fall back on the methods of Scouting. Eamonn

As most people can tell as soon as I open my mouth I am not from Southwestern PA. I have not done that much relocating. A couple of moves around London. A town which is still the best. I love the trains and buses, the cheeky kids and the diverse population. Strange as it may sound it is at times nice to go and buy a beer without someone asking 'Where are you from?" If only we could move it over here. I love this place. Not just for what it has given me and it has given me a lot. I know that if I had gone to the banks back "Home" armed only with a business plan and asked them to lend me almost a million dollars when they had finished laughing they would have given me a kick in the pants!! This small town with less then 5000 people means a lot to me. In business I have seen the young Lads come in and try to buy a beer under age and told them to come back when they are old enough. I have seen them grow played golf with them. Catered all sorts of events gone to their weddings and and now seeing them raise their own families. As I think I have said before it is not possible to drive around this area with two hands on the wheel. You need one to wave and return waves with. Just this week we sold our house and the last bar. We are on the move. Not far just 3.5 miles into town. I love our house and will miss some things, but I don't need six garages and mowing seven acres of grass takes half a day even with the tractor. Yes the small ranch house will seem small and I could have done without the pool but I was out voted. The small town is very dear to Her That Must Be Obeyed, the local park is named after her grandparents family as are some of the streets. She is proud of that. While some would say that the town is dying. I would say it is changing. Yes the super Walmart is hurting the small shops, but the local hardware store is always busy. Thanks to them having great service and selling the stuff that no one else would stock. The Schools are great the teachers for the most part attended the very same school. While moving "Home" does come up every now and then I have to remember that we are home at least for home for Jamie (The Wife) and OJ my son. I don't know what will happen when OJ leaves. I really don't like the cold winters. Still we will deal with that when it comes. I don't think that I would like to have to pack up my tent and move as much as you Pro. Scouters do. But I think you know that if you are to follow the yellow brick road that is your career, that's what you have to do. We have had two Pros that opted to stay. The Assistant Scout Exec. Before the one we almost have?? Was here for many years and died here. Then the one who is still here but has had his job taken away but remains as something?? (I am not sure what title, but no longer the Assistant Scout Exec.) He has been here for over 25 years. But Dave I feel sure that you will do a great job no matter where you land. Who knows maybe one day if I ever make Council Pres we can team up as a Council key3. Stranger Things do happen. Eamonn

Have just returned from Oglebay Park winter festtival of lights. Have TO admit to not being over the moon about going. It was a fund raiser for a hospital and Her that Must Be Obeyed signed me up. If you are in that area it is worth going. So where was I? As I think Dave is aware I am in no way anti-DE. In fact I like to think that I go out of my way to help make the system work. I do think that the system we have in place can and does work if we work at making it work. While I have never viewed a Scout Professional as working for me. I do have to admit to looking at the Council budget and seeing how much the council is paying out in wages and benefits. It is a lot of money and I would like to see it put to good use. I don't begrudge spending it. I do agree with Dave the DE is a District Executive who ought to be doing the work of an Executive. I also strongly believe that each and every unit deserves the support and service that is promised. If they are not receiving it something has to be done. I think that there is a lot of material out there that will point anyone who needs or wants to know on the path to enlightenment. However maybe just maybe when something isn't working we have to ask what can I do? What am I willing to do to make things right? How do I make the team stronger? While I can't speak for anyone else in my case. I seen that our Commissioner Staff was a real mess and thought that I could do something to "un-mess it". I did have to give up one part of Scouting which I dearly love that being the close one on one relationship with the youth. Knowing that I'm not Superman or Superscouter was ok admiting it and putting aside the unit for the District was not as easy. In the end it comes down to service. We are all here to serve the youth. I happen to think that the most important person in Scouting is the Unit or Crew Leader. Others will take me to task on that. I knew that if our district didn't start doing a better job in supporting the unit leaders the youth would suffer.So I joined the Commissioner Staff went and took all the training that was out there. Sad to say I should have spent more time in training the next District Commissioner, but our District Chair left before his term was over. Dave used the term work smarter not harder. I agree with this. I might add that we all might take the time to see where we fit in best, where our sevices could be best put to use. I do feel very strongly that we all admit that we are not Superman or Superwoman and we do not need to keep on taking on extra work. One of the things we need to keep doing is building strong foundations. We need to keep bringing new people on board and giving them real and useful things to do. That way if we do step away to do something else it is not going to be at some horrendous cost to the youth that we serve. Eamonn

And all this time I thought that the uniform police came under I.A.D. Eamonn

Sad to say I did write a posting which has gone somewhere??? I thanked Laurie for her kind words. Said that the DE was not doing the job that he/she is being paid for. Gave a long story how I had managed to get a Unit Commish when the one we had when I was Cubmaster. We send the IR to the District Committee meeting.( Yes I know he was to have been there anyway.) Please forgive me I have to rush off. Her Who Must Be Obeyed has us all headed for W.V. To look at some lights. Boy Do We Know How To Have Fun??? Dave it seems clear that this DE is not doing his job. I know that the Twit that we have for a FD, would make his life a living hell. How would you go about bringing him up to snuff? Eamonn These are Xmas lights and the cash we spend goes to some good cause. Think I will start to charge people to visit my yard.

Not to change the subject but.... Our Scout Exec. Has been with us for about 3 years. This guy is real big on rewards and incentives. We have all sorts of stuff that he hands out for Sign up night and Webelos Scout Crossover, you name it he will give away a camp chair or a sweatshirt for it. Needless to say all this stuff comes at a cost to the Council. I do question why? To my way of thinking we are rewarding people for things that they would do anyway. I feel the same way about Round Table. Do we need to reward people for attending? We do have one District in the council that offers Cub Bucks for all that do attend and at the end of the year they have an auction for stuff that everyone brings in. I have in the past donated a pile of old Pow Wow books. Which they tell me someone was pleased to win. Eamonn

Ed I might or might not agree with you. But my point is that what we think is up to us, it does not give us the right to set oursleves up as judge and jury. While I happen to be of the credence that does not agree with sex outside of marriage. This is one of my values. While it might be a little sanctimonious of me I tend to think that I live my life using my values as my benchmark. Have there been times when I have done things that I am not proud of, things that don't concur even with my own set of values and ethics. Sad to say the answer is yes. But one of the benefits of aging is that being my own man is a lot easier to manage. I no longer feel the pressure from my peers, I am less effected by the media. Even if we look in the Bible we will find a lot of men and women who had made mistakes only to change and join the winning team. Our role in Scouting is to serve the youth. Sad to say they will make mistakes and bad choices. At times they will have to pay the consequences for these. If we go about looking at these mistakes as being the work of a bad kid we are not looking at the opportunity that we have to educate and improve things. I have no idea of the events that led up to this Lad and the girl having unprotetcted sex. Did the girl tell him that she was taking birth control pills? Did they try using a method that just didn't work? Or did a heavy petting session just get out of hand? Did the condom tear? Mybe what they were doing was not right but maybe he was doing his best not to be part of an unplanned pregnancy. I don't know. I will bet that there is a boy who is having a very hard time. Who feels that the entire world is against him and along with feelings of shame the future is not looking that bright. His membership in Scouting is something that he and his parents will have to work out. He might want to take a look at the DO My Best line and reexamine where he is coming from and where he is going. But at the end of the day it is up to him.It is his Oath. Eamonn