Eamonn

In our Council we have a committee to handle the Jamboree. They start with the selection of Leaders and look after all the details: Transportation, Equipment just about everything. We also provide opportunities for fund raising in the past sales of pies and pizzas. We send two troops and each troop can also set up fund raising events. Last time the other Scoutmaster set up some sort of a candy sale. Many of the Scouts home troops allow them to keep all or use the money raised at troop fund raising events to go toward Jamboree expenses. While I am unsure if there is any hard and fast rule I would think that it would be best to get any and all fund raising events OKed by the Jamboree committee or if done at the unit level by the troop committee with all the necessary paper work and permits filed with the council. I have to admit to being a little surprised at hearing that your Jamboree Committee is not doing any fund raising events to help offset the expense. You might want to discuss and explore the idea with the Jamboree Scoutmaster. I have as Scoutmaster for a Jamboree troop been approached by some of the parents who thought that a spaghetti dinner might be a good idea. We are going to talk about it at our next meeting and if there is enough interest and enough people to make it work we will go with it. The difficult thing is that some of the Scouts don't need the money and really have no need to fund raise. I spoke to one Lad and asked why he hadn't sold pizzas he told me that he had collected enough money at Christmas from his paper route to pay for the Jamboree. Eamonn

Does one get preferential treatment on a battleship if one has five stars? Eamonn

Once upon a time there was a mailing list which nobody updated. The letter was in the mail box informing me that there was a Council Program Group Meeting last Monday. I no longer serve on any of the committees but I normally work late on Monday and I was going that way, so I thought that I might just look in to see if the district was well represented. My first mistake. The meeting covers all the program areas of the Council. I was on the mailing list due to my past involvement with the Training Committee. All the District chairs from our District were there. I thought that I would sneak out, but thought that might seem a little rude. My second mistake. The meeting broke off into committee sessions and the Scout Exec. Comes and asks me if I will sit in on the Advancement Committee. I say OK. My third mistake. I have never had a lot to do with the Advancement Committee. I know most of the people who serve and while they are all good men they tend to be a little too detailed for me. The Scout Exec.walks with me into the meeting room and informs the committee that the Chair can't make it and I will sit in for him. I am not too happy but harm can I do at one tiny meeting? Mistake number four. The Agenda is already prepared so I think that we will just waltz through this little lot. (Five.) I look for the minutes of the last meeting. When I can't find them I mention it to the committee. Only to be informed that there are none!! I smile, thinking that this never happened in the Training Committee when I was chair. I ask when was the last meeting? They shuffle a little bit and tell me that it was last August!! I am totally flabbergasted. We start on the agenda. (6??) The Council wants to change the date of the Eagle Dinner from May till August.The council feels that we will get more corporate involvement if we wait till August as we have the Council Fund raising dinners in May. World War three breaks out. One chap thinks that this will be the end of Scouting as we know it. I try to explain as well as being a dinner for the Eagle Scouts it is also a great opportunity to market Scouting. He tells me that I'm trying to short change the boys?? I'm still working on that one. In the end I tell them that it is now March and as nothing has been done it would be almost impossible to get the dinner organized by May. So we go with August. That took twenty minutes. Someone has filled in all the papers to submit to National for a heroism award for a boy who performed the Heimlich on someone. I say that we should forward it to National and see what happens. One of the committee members tells me that his son done the same thing and didn't get any award!! After ten minutes we decide to forward it to National. Boy do I wish that I hadn't looked in. Next is the case of the Fiberglas donkey. One Lad who has passed all the requirements for Eagle Scout and is waiting for a Eagle Scout Court of Honor has been accused of stealing a Fiberglas donkey from a nativity scene. The owners of the donkey have got the donkey back, but the committee want to know what to do. I say that there really is nothing that can be done as the Scout has passed all the requirements and as yet has not had his day in court. I agree to talk with the Scoutmaster and have a word with the magistrate. Maybe we can work out some sort of community service with no record, which will save the council from being embarrassed. We move on to the Scout who at his Eagle Scout BOR said that he had not been at a troop meeting for six months. He asked for an extension. His Scoutmaster asked for a extension. The Lad is now 18. The committee seemed to remember that they turned him down, someone thought that the Scoutmaster was or might have been called. But no letter was ever send. I mentioned that attending troop meetings was not a requirement as long as the Lad had been active in his troop and patrol for six months as a Life Scout. There was a lot of unhappy people. But they agreed to take another look at it - If I got all the troop records. We get to the end of the Agenda and Date of next meeting. They seem surprised when I suggest March 29. The meeting is over. I have got out alive - Barely. I have agreed to do all the stuff that they should be doing. They are unhappy with me. Three guesses where I went next. I did write a letter to the new Vice president of program requesting that he appoint a new chair for that committee. By the way the Advancement Chair from our District went to complain about how some of the museums are running merit badge classes and handing out merit badges without covering all the requirements. We never got that far. Eamonn

One day I will wake up to find that there is world peace and hunger is a thing of the past. Sad as it may be it is a fact that a good many troops run merit badge classes. As I have posted many times I am not in favor of this and don't like it. It not being the way it should be does at tomes make me appear to be a little smug. I strongly urge 585sm not to get caught up in this tomfoolery. Still you have the problem of these Lads attending and maybe picking which troop or program they think is the better of the two. One good thing about being a new troop is that you can start off on the right foot now and ensure that you follow the right path. I happen to think that by doing it right and by the book troop 585 will in the long run come out much further ahead. Listen to your Scouts in particular your Patrol Leaders, follow up on the ideas that come out of the PLC. Allow the Scouts in 585 to be a real boy led troop. Take the time that you are spending doing merit badges and use it to train your Patrol Leaders and work with them. The dividends that this will pay will beat the pants off any course of merit badge classes. While these classes are not the way to go. A balanced program that sparks an interest in a merit badge is a good thing. Informing a Scout that by participating in an activity has covered part of such and such a merit badge and having the booklet or the Boy Scout Requirements book at hand so the Scout can look up the requirements for himself and decide if he wants to go futher is not a bad thing. As for the other troop I think that I would give the Scoutmaster a call and very politely ask him not to invite the Scouts from 585 to the meetings. Maybe if both troops are small you might invite him to see if the two troops could team up and do some sort Patrol Leader Training? Scouting offers all of the Lads in Scouting so much. However at times Scouts hang back not doing things because they lack the basic skills that are covered on the road to First Class. If there is a need for a level playing field it is in ensuring that the Scouts have these skills. Once they have that down pat - Watch OUT. Eamonn

Thanks for a great posting Laurie. I would say "Way to Go" But .... I know that you have sons and really did mean youth not just boys??? One of the reasons that I remain in Scouting other then the for what I see as the good we can do and offer too our youth. Is because of adults like you who share the values that I do. I enjoy almost any gathering of Scouters because of this. It is of no never mind if they are rich, poor. Black or white and dare I say it if they are hard line left wingers or right wingers.I don't pay too much attention to what patches are on their uniform or even if they are all in the right place. While many of us tell "War stories" about our kids, there are a good many that have no kids of their own and still do outstanding work and works for the youth in their community. For all these people I feel really blessed that we as adults have each other. Eamonn

Great List. Really Great List. Why is it here in issues and politics? I hope you are not baiting ??? (Joke) Eamonn

As yet I have not seen the new syalabuss that will replace the JLTC syalabuss that is now in use. If as I think it will?? It goes the same way as the new Wood Badge course has I think that we will see a lot more about Vision, Mission, Values and Goal setting. This is just my opinion and I have no way of backing it up. I could and might be totally wrong. So we have our adults spending time looking at all these things and if I'm right soon we will have the Lads returning from JLTC having spent time looking at all this. Are we going to ignore it? The example given about the hike is a good one. However without spending time looking at what happened was anything learned? How much better would it have been if there had been some sort of a reflection? What points of the Scout Law came into play? Sad to say if I was a Scout I would have just thought that the leader was just horsing around - What a shame!! A great opportunity lost. It is a sad fact that very often we don't see the forest for the trees. For many years I owned and ran a couple of restaurants. My goal was to serve the best food possible. We struggled for the first couple of years until one day I met with my accountant and he said to me that there is one thing that every restaurant should make and make well. I was curious and asked what this was his reply was money. Once the focus moved from food to money we found that could do a better job with the food. We had money to invest in equipment and staff. At the start of each shift I would or the manager would gather the staff for a two minute meeting to cover the menu and that sort of thing. We would end the meeting by asking why are we here? The answer was always the same - "To make money." So I fail to see why telling our Scouts why we are doing what we are doing is in any way information overload. Eamonn

Sad to report I am well known for opening mouth and inserting foot. It is also a fact that I have a a really terrible temper. So bad that I rarely if ever lose it. Mainly because I get so mad at myself for allowing it to happen. Still to date I have never ever lost my temper at a child - Not even my own, and Lord knows he knows how to push all the buttons. When talking too or with young people I do pick my words. I have been heard to say that I am going to "Marmalize" someone. Which I have no idea how to do and am not sure if it could be done. Still it is not a good thing to say and I know that I really shouldn't say it. However I think it is along the same lines as Fat Old Guy and his transporting Scouts on the roof of his car. There is a time and a place for most of the things that happen. It might be OK to say that you are going to Marmalize a Scout in the Quartermasters store when you find that the cook kit has not been cleaned. But at a Court of Honor? I don't think so. Eamonn

It might be that my command of the English language isn't that good? I had to think for a while what "Baiting" means. Yes I have used baiting to draw a answer out of some of the people who post in these forums. In fact I miss the Man Of Steele. I knew that at times when I got on my high horse about something that was happening in our Council, he would post a reply. There are times when I see something posted which I in my infinite wisdom?? Deem to be as dumb as dumb can be. I suppose I could be blunt and say "That is dumb!!" But either I'm too polite or not honest enough. Instead I use the pointed question. I at times feel that Fat Old Guy is baiting all of us. My problem is that at times he is right. I really hate to admit it!! Bob is a wonderful resource. At times he comes across as being a little short. But I happen to believe that he has a good handle on this program and does really care about Scouting and the youth in the programs. I have squelched Wheeler, as I find no worth what so ever in his postings along with the fact that he has posted that I am a hypocrite !! There is no point in me trying to bait him or have anything to do with him as he really has nothing to do with Scouting and the programs. - So why bother? But having said that I remember posting something about the World Jamboree being a gathering of "Pinkos" So I have to plead guilty to being a baiter. Eamonn

Sure there are Dens with lots of adult leadership. Still there are many that have a hard time just finding two. If the policy were to allow Den Camping I feel that some would be off to camp with a Den Leader who was Baloo Trained and the Assistant Den Leader. So while some Dens are fortunate enough to have all these extra leaders most are not. Eamonn

As I have stated I am not that active in the lodge. However my son is. At present he is a vice chief, he is off to NOAC.(I have never been so I can't comment as to if it is a carnival or not!!) He will attend Summer camp with his troop and serve on the staff of JLTC. I really don't think the argument that attending OA weekends holds water in our council as most troops in fact all the troops that I know do not plan activities on a OA weekend. Still I am not pointing fingers at the people who don't make every OA function. It is the Lads and adults that never attend. I have no way of knowing if they pay the dues or not. I do wonder if we do a good enough job of explaining what being a member is all about before we hold the election? I would hope that all members of the OA are members 24/7 at home, at their troop in fact everywhere I am having a little bit of a hard time seeing that you can be a active member and never attend any Lodge function.To my way of thinking this would be like me being a Catholic who lives a good life and never goes to mass. Would I be a good Catholic? I think not. My 2 Cents. Eamonn

Bob, I think that you and I share the same view point on a lot of things related to Scouts and Scouting. I really am looking forward to meeting you at the Jamboree. I may have overstated my idea in this posting. I of course agree that boys become Scouts in most cases for the fun and adventure. As adults we need to read and re-read the Scout Handbook and make sure that we are doing everything to deliver what Scouting promises the Lads that join. At times I think that we "Old People" forget that Scouting has made a promise to each and every Lad that joins. As I look around our District and Council I don't need to be overly clever to see the units that are delivering the promise. These are the units that have the membership and balanced advancement as well in most cases the smart turn out and participation in events. I am 100% for using the methods of Scouting because they work. In fact we have a wonderful program for the youth in programs if we follow the program and use the methods. I fail to see that making the youth in the program aware of what the mission of Scouting is can be viewed as "Forcing anything on them". While I at this time have no way of backing this up but I wonder if I was to ask a group of parents what the mission was? How many would even come close? I'm not saying word for word just the general direction. Many of us have allowed the Scout Law and Oath to become a code that we try to live by. Sad as it may be I can rattle of the Scout Laws and Oaths from two countries far better then I can the ten commandments. (I can do the commandments but have to think!!) The Oath and Law are the very heart of Scouting and to my way of thinking nothing should be done to distract from them. They are the pathway to making the mission work. I just happen to think that we have this very fine set of words that could become a tool in itself and we are treating it as if it was some sort of secret. Bob you make a very good point about using it wisely at Scoutmaster Conferences and BOR. However I think that it has more potential then that. Yes, we need to keep our eyes open and ensure that any activities we do around it or with it are age appropriate. There was and I'm not sure if it is still there an Ethics In Action segment in the Cub Scout How To Book. The new requirements for the Arrow Of Light are along these lines. I think they are titled "Character Connection." Maybe the neon light is a bit much, still the odd nudge and frank and honest discussion around the fading embers of the campfire might be in order. Eamonn

We have youth member reps on our board. I see them at the AGM and never at a board meeting I am not sure if this is a real position or just window dressing Eamonn

I think that I may have not been playing this game right!! 40 years in the program and I have just seen the light. I thought it was all fine and dandy that I knew the mission of Scouting and the BSA. I had this information and was vane enough and smug enough to think that I had / have a good understanding of it. I did share this with other adults at Wood Badge and other training's. But I never shared it with the Scouts. Somehow someway I never thought that they needed to know what they were doing. It was OK for me to steer them toward making ethical choices and decisions but they didn't need to know that was what we were doing. How dumb can I get?? What a really stupid way to do things. I could kick myself. How is a Lad to know if he is doing it right if we don't tell him what we are trying to do? How could I ever recognize a Lad for making an ethical choice if he didn't tell me? I have spent a lot of time making something that is so easy - so darn hard. Something that was right under my nose so hard to find. I really think that we all need to spread the word this is what Scouting is all about. We need to stat asking our Scouts what have they done to help fulfill the mission and more importantly what are they going to do. We have the Law and Oath in big letters in our meeting places we also need to have the mission up there in big neon lights. Our Scouts need to know what they are working at. Eamonn

This thread was spun from another thread.In my travels I pop in and see troops holding elections for OA membership. I'm asked all sorts of questions. - Most of which I don't know the answers too. So I refer them to the OA web site or someone who is good at OA type stuff. I pays me dues and get to attend about half the weekends and events due to work and family commitments. At the weekends I see as many as 80 people taking the ordeal. Many are the same people that I seen get called out on parents night at summer camp with parents taking photos and making movies of the big event. Some are the very people that I wasn't able to help. They are there, they pay for the book, the sash, the dues and the weekend. All in all not a cheap outing. But then I never see them again. While I know that Scouts attend OA weekends not as a troop, but some troops go through the election procedure along with unhelpful answers from me and are never ever seen at another OA function. This seems more then a little dumb not to mention a waste of money. What happens to these people who wanted so badly to join? Where do they go? Do we need to do a better job of explaining what real membership is? Or are we happy with a bunch of flap wearers? Just asking. Eamonn

The Scout Group in which I was a Scout and Venture Scout back in England had a really nice necker. No one seems to know how it came about, as we were one of the early Troops. The 17th Fulham (Pioneers) Neckerchief was black with a quarter inch white border and a patch which was black with a white rope border meeting in a reef knot inside the rope were two crossed axes. The neckerchief was part of the offical Scout uniform so it was worn with the uniform. At the time the Scout shirt was a dark green. I don't wear a necker very often but seem to have a lot. In fact I seen one from the 75 Jamboree selling for over $200.00 on e-bay. I have the full set from all the sub-camps. The Lad who attended the last word jamboree gave me the necker from the English contingent. I have never counted how many. Some years back I got them out and OJ seen them, he was only a little fellow but he looked at me and said "Daddy when you die can I have all of them" At least they will find a good home. I'm not sure where I will be!! Eamonn

Like it or not popcorn sales are needed to help support the council. When we were running our family business we used to receive presents from different companies - Beer distributors - Food Vendors.. I asked them if they would consider giving Boy Scout Pop corn as the gift. Soon we were selling popcorn by the case load. Even now that we have sold the businesses, we are still moving a lot of popcorn sad to say not as much as one of the distributors went and became a board member. He still gives the gift of popcorn and I now play in the golf outing that he holds to raise money for the council. OJ done well out of all this he has a great mountain bike gift certificates and a lot of other neat stuff. He still sells a fair amount. I used to leave an order form in the break room at work but we have a nurse with three boys in the program, so I don't anymore. Of course the down side is Girl Scout cookies. I have to buy from all the popcorn buyers. Last count there was 28 boxes of them. I love the lemon ones !! Eamonn

I think the answer to why Packs can and Dens can't is leadership. Eamonn

I am having a hard time believing that anyone would let this pass his /her lips. Please do not allow the fact that someone has been around for a long time lead you to think that they are right. There are I'm sad to say some leaders that just never really worked out what Scouting is all about and have managed to keep doing it wrong for a very long time. I know that if I had been at the event I would have said something to deflect his remark and then found the right place to read him the riot act. When I was done giving him a part of my mind I would have made an appointment with the Committee Chair the Charter Rep. and maybe if possible the Executive Officer to meet as a group as soon as possible. At this meeting I would let them know how upset I am and let them know that whatever is going on in their meeting hall /room is what it is but is not Scouting,and will never be Scouting. It sounds as if the Chair. is already painfully aware of this. I don't know if the Scoutmaster can change his ways? I would ask him to explain to the entire troop that he has made a mistake and apologize for what he said. If he isn't trained he needs to be as soon as possible. If he isn't willing to change his ways I would hope that the charter organization would thank him for his past services and let him go. Sad as that might be. Eamonn

I don't think so!! What would the uniform police say abot her uniform?? American Woman... No we won't go there. Eamonn.

In our District. You apply using the form along with an Adult application. This goes to the Dean of Merit Badges. He presents it to the Advancement Committee. They make their recommendations to the District Committee. The Dean contacts you and covers all the stuff that is needed. He contacts everyone and will explain why the committee may not have approved a certain merit badge. Eamonn

Wow this is the first time in my entire life that I have ever seen or heard of the "News Of The World" being a highly reliable source!!! Dig out your old Abbey Road Album. Find out what sort of girl makes the News Of The World" With that I am going to leave by the bathroom window - Leaving that "Comic" in its rightful place. Eamonn

I was at a Blue and Gold today (In fact I was at two - more chicken!!) One pack was one of the top sellers in the council thanks to selling outside local stores. The CM said that he was surprised at how many people gave $20.00 for a small box of popcorn and didn't want the change. Eamonn

Thanks for the more then kind words. I think that you need to speak to the Scout Exec. Or the Council President about enlisting the help of a couple of Board members to get a Nominating Committee off the ground. It sounds as if you are carrying a great weight. While at first glance some of the sheets that National puts out seem a little over the top - They do work. I would try very hard to recruit people from the community. I had a lot of luck getting people to get involved by asking the Advancement Chair to invite community people to sit on Eagle Scout Boards. Once they seen what these Lads are up to they weren't too hard to enlist. I did cheat a little bit by giving the Advancement Committee a list with names, position and contact information. Thanks to that we have a bank president and a couple of school superintendants on the district committee. (You have to move fast or the Council signs them up as board members.) I have not yet read your other posting. Eamonn

As is well known by many our Council is blessed with a Field Director who is a first class nit wit. Somehow someway he is an Eagle Scout. To be very honest the fact that he breathes upsets me. Our DE on the other hand is female and is the parent of an Eagle Scout. Before working for the BSA she was employed by a dentist. She is by far the best DE in the council and from all accounts the best DE that our district has ever had. Experience is fine but it can never mask being a nit wit. You may well have landed a nit wit. I do have to disagree with you about training. Even if this DE is a nit wit you as a Scout and as a District Officer do have a duty to train them if not for the person do it for the good of the district. The way you are allowing him to run the district seems odd.Why is a DE planning a district event? Where is the key3? Worse still if this person is a nit wit why allow him to get away with this stuff? While I know that I don't sign our DE's pay check and I'm aware that some of the things that she has to do have come down from "Above" either from the executive board, the region or national or even in our case from her boss the Field Director. There is no way that I will allow anything she does to harm the very people that we are there to support. Yes we support the council and council policies but when something is coming down from "Above" and we know that it doesn't work in our district we go out of our way to find a way that does work. For example the Field Director came up with this plan for a Council wide Tiger Cub Safari to be held in June. Each district was to hold this event on the same day at one central location. Our kids get out of school in May and the district has three School districts. We are holding three community Tiger Safaris near the schools in May. We are doing this because it will work for the district and the units not just to be a pain in his neck - Although I have to admit that is an added bonus. Scoutldr does make a good point about the money which I feel sure you can see. Sad to say the way that the DE handled it may have to be chalked up to him being a nit wit. You might want to have a word with him at the right time and place or bring it up at the key3 meeting. As for you throwing in the towel. You may remember not so long ago I posted how upset and perplexed our Field Director had me? I got as far as writing my letter of resignation. I was really mad. Still when I sat down and thought long and hard about it I came up with a lot of reasons for not sending it. One was that I'm going to be around a lot longer then he is !! Another was that even a clock that has stopped is right twice a day. But the big one for me was that as a Scout in London I made the English Scout Promise to keep the English Scout Law and one of them is A Scout is a Brother To All Scouts. This guy is a nit wit we are never going to be close and his ideas and idea of Scouting is poles apart from what mine are. Still he is a Scout and I have to do my best. I am really trying to either work with him or avoid him. But no matter what my first loyalty is to the district and the units we serve. Eamonn