Eamonn

Just a couple of thoughts. The DE is not the one starting new units this comes under the District Membership Committee. The DE may get involved but starting new units is not what I want our DE working on. As to who may want a unit that is up to them. If I am the local Catholic Parish Priest, I may want to further my youth ministry by having a full family of Scouting program available to the youth in my parish. It is a youth program of the church. If the Presbyterian Church next door wants to further its' youth ministry with a full family of Scouting program that is the choice of that church. They own the units, we offer the program. Eamonn

The Fun and the spirit of any program is in the way it is delivered at the unit level. It won't do any good talking to the youth in Venturing today about the old Exploring program they have no idea what it was and don't care. They want to see the program that they are in work. It doesn't matter if it is brand spanking new or some of the old stuff recycled, to them it is Venturing. Our role as adults is to help them make the program work. We will do that best if we use the materials that are available for them to use today. Eamonn

It has been said that the old Handbooks were unarguable better then the ones in use today. I very much doubt if anything posted in these forums could be termed unarguable? It wasn't clear if all the Handbooks are worse now then they were then? Or if only the Scout Handbook has taken a turn for the worse. I don't have a collection of Handbooks and I am not going to argue if one is better then the other. Still the Handbook is for the Scout to use.Like it or not the Scouts who use the book are being taught in a different way then I was and many of us were. I suppose we could keep on putting out Handbooks that the Scouts don't like and wouldn't use. It might appease the old people but it wouldn't be of much use to those who it is aimed at and for. Eamonn

Why not? Go ahead and use it if you want too. Not wanting to sound like a complete pompous pain in the neck. (PPITN) Why if you are into Venturing do you keep bringing up stuff about PTANT. (Programs That Are Not There) History is fine. We do however have a program that will work if we let it. There may be those who think that bringing back the Lion Den is a very good idea. I have spoken with those who loved Scouting when it entailed loading the Trek Cart with the Bell Tents and pushing the cart to camp. These days are gone, just like the Explorer program as it once was. Eamonn

The number of people who accuse me as a District Chair. of only being interested in numbers is not a lot. This used to upset me. It doesn't any more. I really would like to see a lot more youth in all of our programs.And I would like to see a lot more money come into the council so that we can improve the programs that we offer. I would love to see each District have all the equipment that they need for training and maybe do a better job in that department which would lead to a better program for the youth in all of our programs. Sad to say I have been around Scouting long enough to know that there are peaks and valleys. The Big Troop today will at sometime in the future start to struggle and todays' Small Troop will become the Big Troop. In most cases this has to do with leadership. In the perfect world I would get reports about the big troop starting to slide and I and the key 3, District Committee and the Commissioners staff would ride in on a white horse and save the day. The good news is that sometimes this does happen. The sad news is that it doesn't happen often enough. While we have people who will rush in to save a unit from closure very often the Big Troop is eroding away and we are slow to take action. We kind of get fooled by reputation. We have one troop in the District that for many years has been the troop that people have looked up to and thought highly of. The decline in membership didn't send up a red flag. It just happened. However if I look back, ten years ago it was a troop of sixty and today it has twenty-four. Late last year I was invited to a Court of Honor. I sat down and the gave me a wad of photos to look at taken on the troop trip to Canada. I flipped through the photos and was a little shocked to see very few of the Scouts. I asked how many people went to Canada and was informed that there was twelve, eight leaders and four Scouts. Across town there is a new troop, started with a den of graduating Webelos four or five years ago, with the sixteen Webelos that bridged over last month the troop membership will be over fifty. Now that we are aware of what is happening to the other troop we are taking steps to make them aware that they have a problem and that we are willing to help. Eamonn

Been a long week. The little gray cells are not up to snuff. I still don't understand what you are looking for. What is Advanced Leadership? Are we talking Ken Blanchard? Or are we looking at the Trainer Development Conference? Eamonn

Not sure if I ought to spin off here or keep going? What the heck, I will keep going. While I can and do see where Bob White is coming from. I think that this idea of being in two programs at the same time is not such a great idea. Yes I know that OJ is in two but that was his choice. We have never really had a heart to heart chat about why he wants to be in the troop and the Crew, but I think the fact there are friends of his in the Crew that were never in the troop and more then lightly would never join a troop has a lot to do with it. Eamonn

While there have been times when I have been more active then others I have been registered as a member of some kind of Scouting organization or Association since I joined at age 8. Eamonn

Yes. On a few uniforms. Like many other awards this knot does show that I support Scouting. I have a lot of awards and knots not all of them make it to every shirt. Some of my Scout shirts don't have any only the World Crest,CSP and a position patch. Eamonn

I think that I have heard that the Northeast Region has the highest percentage of the total available youth. However, I heard it from someone in the Northeast Region.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Good Job. Well Done. Eamonn

We have something called the Neighborhood Network I have no idea what it is all about they ask us to track our volunteer hours monthly and turn them in. Every now and then they give us a little token: A pin, a bookmark or a shirt. I work flex-time so can just about come and go when I like as long as I don't miss anything important. My boss has a son who is an Eagle Scout and is very understanding about my coming and going. This year I will reach the top of the vacation hill and be up to six weeks a year. I can sell one week a year back or buy an extra week. I always buy the extra week. If I don't use it they refund the money at the end of the year. Eamonn

The committee is the Pack Management Committee. They manage the pack. The Den Leaders and deliver the program to the boys. If the Den Leaders and Committee members are the same people don't you think that there is something not right? Then there is the BSA rules.... Eamonn

Marc No I am not an Eagle Scout. I am a very proud Queens Scout. While it might be hoped that each and every Lad who spends time in Scouting in any program and at any level will come out a little better for being there. I just fail to see that there is a Demand for excellence anywhere in any of the Scouting programs. Take a look at the Mission of Scouting - No mention of demanding excellence there. Take a look at the methods of Scouting - No mention there. It could be said that "...I promise to do my best" is a personal affirmation to the pursuit of excellence but that is a very individual thing. Yes I have seen the news headlines about the Lad who is an Eagle Scout and has been charged with murder. I have known Eagle Scouts and Queen Scouts who have committed serious crimes. It of course goes without saying that along with any crimes these individuals may have committed they have also failed to keep the Scout Law. It is also a fact that many of us fail to keep it each and every day. Much as I try I have a hard time helping other people at all times. Scouts and Scouting is not about turning young people into some master race. Anymore then my attendace at church is going to turn me into a angel!! Just for the record I was replying to the remark that was made by Sturgen. As far as setting a high standard when it comes to meeting the requirement for whatever is fine. If the requirement is to be able to do something the Scout needs to be able to do it. There is no beef about that. I agree whole heartedly that the requirements have to be met. This is done by making sure that the Scout does learn the skill or whatever. This does mean that the Patrol Leader or the person teaching knows the skill and is able to pass it on. Once this has been accomplished and the Scout has been tested and can tie the knot or whatever he can move on to be reviewed and then recognized. But the bottom line is that we don't teach Scouts skills just to pass requirements, we teach them the skills so that they can use them and get more out of the program. Tying a bowline in the meeting hall isn't a lot of fun, using it on a rappelling tower or the side of a glacier brings the skill to life. Eamonn

Bob, this is the path that want to follow. How do you hold a parent back from moving along with his/her son?? Eagledad , Did you have any sort of a orientation at the get go? If so when? Eamonn

EagleKY Thanks for the kind words. Howz about doing it backward? Go out of your way to find things that this Lad is doing right. Explain to him what a ethical choice is and when you talk with him ask him what ethical choices has he made today/ this week. By the way I really admire the amount of time and effort that you are putting into this little fellow. You know that the reward is going to be humongous.(It just might take a while!!) Eamonn

Am I jealous - Or what. I hope you have the bestest time. Eamonn

While I am not new to Scouting sad to say I have not kept up to date with all the changes in the Tiger Cub program. As a council we are/I am trying to come up with a plan that would increase retention in Tiger Cubs. The problem as we have identified it. We do a good (Not Great)Job of recruiting these little fellows. But we lose about 50% of them. So it seems that something isn't working. We are looking at some kind of Tiger Cub parent orientation. Finding someway of ensuring that the Tiger Den Leader is up to speed before the little fellows join. Having each District appoint a Assistant District Commissioner Tiger Cubs and the Council appoint a Assistant Council Commissioner for Tiger Cubs. The idea is to have more direct involvement with the program by the commissioner staff at the unit/ den level. I welcome your thoughts. Eamonn

I think that I'm reading this right. The question is "How can we take away the fear of leading?" If possible start them off with a few small things. The Tiger Scout program can help. But have them help at something such as the Pinewood Derby. Give them a specific job to do and let them do it. Make it a big point to talk with them and use their name a lot. Make sure that they feel welcome and a part of the team. Recognize everyone who helps a thank you goes a long way. Be sure that you don't ever forget anyone. Before you ask them to do something find out as much as you can about them. What they like to do and that sort of thing. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because they do something for a living that is what they like to do. Never ever accept "No" as an answer. Everyone can do something. It just takes time to find out what. Pack Committee meetings are only 90 minutes once a month. Chairing the B&G is a one time hit. We have room for everyone and family involvement is a method of Cub Scouting. Be sure that you give them all the information and tools needed to be a success. Go out of your way to try and find them doing something right and reward them with a kind word. We all love to hear the words "Good Job." Be open to new ideas. They might not be doing it the same old way, but they might be on to something. Remember that after the initial enthusiasm for any project there is a need for direction. The new guy is feeling that he/she is in way over his or her head. Support is needed. Still once they are up and running step back and let'em run. While at the same time be ready to give support if needed but only if. Let them know that you care about them as a person not just the job that they are doing. Resolve any conflicts as quickly as possible.If you don't they will grow and get in the way. Be sure that you all as a team celebrate in the success's. A five dollar cake at the evaluation meeting or the next committee meeting is a great investment. As to why people say "No' The main reason is that we didn't ask the right question. Eamonn PS Smile a lot and make it look like you are having fun - Remember if your Scouting isn't Contagious maybe it's contaminated.

The pack that I used to serve in as Cubmaster is in the small town in which I live. The Bank President has two Lads in the program and serves on the District Committee. The Bank offers free checking to all the Scout Units, but there is a fee for bounced checks. Her Who Must Be Obeyed was the pack treasurer, before I joined the pack and only stepped down last year. The account was in the name of the pack and the chartered organization. Details of income, expense and balance were given at each committee meeting and if the charter rep. Wasn't at the meeting a copy of the report was mailed to him. He sat on the parish council and would report to them. The checks needed two signatures and there were three committee members allowed to sign no leaders were allowed to sign checks. At times some people would make a check out to the family of the Scout for pop corn or some other fund raiser. In most cases the family would deposit that check and just make one out to the pack. At on one time the bank did try charging for deposits made on our business account, but I think due to all the competition in banking it didn't last very long. Even the charges on credit card deposits was cut by a huge amount. It does sound as if this poor woman is not taking her meds? While there is no hard and fast rules on what to do I would suggest that the Unit account is with the same bank as the chartered organization banks with. Boy am I glad that I have never attended a meeting like the one you describe. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I am with Bob White and Wingnut. I have no idea what size the troop that you serve is Sturgen. When I was a Scoutmaster the troop was large and while I like to think that the Scouts knew that I respected them, liked them and cared for them and yes we spent many happy hours of what might be termed Quality Time. Be it stopping to view the beauty of creation from the top of a mountain or enjoying a mug of tea as the campfire faded away. Still this was not the time to do a BOR. Maybe there were other Scouts around, maybe that moment was just too important to interrupt? Take a look at the 4 points that Bob White listed. If point one and two were done right would there be any need for this re-testing? We have a program that works if we follow it. I am having a really hard time finding any reference to demands of excellence anywhere in Scouting. I PROMISE TO DO MY BEST, is about as close as I can get. Have you ever thought about going into breeding dogs or horses? They might share your views. The Boy Scouts Of America and the World Scout Association don't. Eamonn

Most of us would agree that the understanding of the Scout Law and Oath is a journey. How it is seen or managed by a 11 year old is different that it is by a 16 year old. Throw in different family backgrounds and different family values add in somethings that might not be working as they ought and we have a individual. What would happen if we asked the Scout if he thought that he had met the requirement and why he thought that he had? We as adults can help him meet some of the requirements with service projects and the like. We can remind the Lad about the daily good turn or maybe even point him in the direction of who might need a daily good turn. Eamonn

Of course no one was signed up who didn't want to be. They had to fill out the application!! As to the expense. It was by far the best spend money ever. I have no idea what some people do at their planning meetings we covered the monthly themes working mainly from the program helps, the Council and District calender. Dates for B&G and other pack events. Having a few extra leaders from one den had little or no impact. Then there is the end result. The Cub Scouts received a first class program all through Cub Scouting. The pack resurrected a troop with one of the Tiger Parents as Scoutmaster, another as the Troop committee Chair, severaL others serve on the Committee or as ASM's. One serves on the District Committee another has gone on to be the Day Camp Director. Which is all OK but far more important is the fact that the boys who were Tiger Cubs are still in the program all these years later. Please tell me a better way of spending money. I would love to hear it. Eamonn I nearly forgot six of them have taken Wood Badge and are working their tickets.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Dancinfox, I have been led to believe that there is a time-line in effect. I will check it out and get back to you. As for last years participants these guys and gals are still working their tickets. I think that I posted how many "New" Staff members that our course. Sad to say my friend who is not in our council is what might be called an old time Wood Badger. He will spend a lot more time on the traditions then I did, Gilwell Field will be hollowed ground and that sort of thing. Not that I'm saying that is all bad, it just wasn't what I thought the course was /is about. His big problem is that he is in a very small council that hasn't developed a Wood Badge Staff. Our council will not host another course until 2006. One of the last things that I did as Council Training Chair. Was to name the Course Director. She has served on the old Cub WB and served as an ASM on our course. She will need to serve as a Troop Guide in order to be the Course Director and I feel she will do an outstanding job. However if something doesn't work out we have half a dozen or so people that could step up to the plate. Eamonn

Due to a mother-in-law birthday dinner I feel a little bit overfed at the moment. If the powers that be came up and said that we had to form a new district what would I do? In no special order. Set about getting a strong and knowledgeable Nominating Committee ASAP. Invite all my FOS community captains to lunch or some other informal gathering. Plan to go with the DE to meet all the Chartered Executive Officers within 30 days. If new schools were in the new district have the DE meet with all the School Secretaries and introduce herself. Find the best location that can be found for the District Committee meetings. Plan to meet with the other two key 3 members at least once a week and set goals for the recruitment of Unit Commissioners, Round Table Commissioners, and Assistant District Commissioners. These Commissioners would be selected for the service that they were going to do not as any form of a thank you for past services. Hold training's for the new District officers. Making sure they understand the role of the District and what part they play in it. Set goals for these new District Officers and let them know that they are accountable for meeting these goals. At the first Round Table invite the Council Key 3 for a Fireside chat. To explain what and why the new district has been formed and too explain the financial burden a new district puts on the council. Along with the great opportunities it offers. I would try and get as many invites to visit unit meetings as possible and follow up by visiting. This would take some time as I would be busy doing the other stuff and I wouldn't want to step on the Commissioners toes. In my spare time I would get a copy of the Council Long Term Strategic Plan and read it looking for where the new district fits in and where we ought to be heading. I would do everything that I could to ensure that the first new District Event was outstanding in order to set the benchmark really high. Of course I am looking at this from a District Chairmans view. If I was the District Commissioner I would be looking more toward Unit Health and making sure that everything was ship shape in that area. From my point of view the areas that I would put most of my effort into would be developing the District Committee with a watchful eye on membership and finance. Eamonn