Eamonn

While I in no way claim to be any sort of an expert on the origins of the Wood Badge I have done a little reading about the subject over the years. I hope that I never become a member of the "Good old boys". While I like the traditions of Wood Badge I hope that I never forget that it is a Training Course and the purpose is that we end up doing a better job for the important people the youth in out programs. As far as my time spend at the happy land. I did my first Wood Badge Course back in England. At that time we did the first part in our Districts and Counties. The Course was very much like the Scoutmaster Specific training now offered over here. Once completed the insignia or patch was a small patch about the size of a BSA knot. It had a single Wood Badge bead on it. Over the years it became affectionately known as the "Peanut Badge." I took the Boy Scout Wood Badge training at Gilwell Park in June of 1974. A week when I swear if one more person told me to "Check your resources!!" I would have screamed. The ticket was tough and you had to give a full written report of what you had done in order to meet your goals. I remember mine being over 150 pages!! The time spent on the course was hectic. We "Played" the part of Scouts in a patrol, rushing from one activity to the next as well as trying to complete the spare time activities, cooking over wood fires and somehow trying to keep to the very tight schedule. I think that I was luckier then a lot of the guys as Gilwell Park, was a "Local Campsite" and I had spent a fair amount of time camping there as a Scout and knew where things were. Looking back, I was far too young to really grasp the real meaning of what the course was trying to teach me. I got caught up in "Beating the other Patrols" and playing Boy Scout. I needed a Wood Badge in order to be a leader at the World Jamboree. So it was just something that "Had" to be done. This might be one of the reasons why now I'm not in favor of mandatory training. The idea of "Let's get this done and out of the way." After I became involved in Cub Scout Leader training I took the Cub Scout Leader trainer Wood Badge course (NE-CS-58) A week long course at Hawk Mountain. Much as I hate to say it I found that the Wood Badge traditions got in the way. We were there to try and become better trainers and the Wood Badge stuff did little to help this and at times ended up getting in the way. Having the course at a Scout Camp was not ideal and it being a Regional Course didn't help. My Den Counselor who was also my ticket counselor lived about a four hour drive away so meeting with him was hard. I needed to change a ticket item which needed the approval of the Cubmaster, she went MIA?? We eventually tracked her down in Germany!! I served on four of the pre 21 Century Wood Badge courses. Three were outstanding, with Scoutmasters who understood why we were there. One was terrible the Scoutmaster a nice chap but I felt being Scoutmaster went to his head and he got too wrapped up in the "Window dressing and traditions," of the course. I really do like the new course and have served as a Troop Guide,which is the best position to have as a Staffer and once as the Scoutmaster. When Gilwell Park was purchased for the Scout Movement in 1919 and formal Leader Training was established Baden Powell felt that "Scout Officers" (As they were then called.)who had completed a training course should receive some sort of recognition. His first idea was some sort of a tassel on their Scout hats but instead the alternative of two small beads attached to the lacing on the hat or to a coat button hole was instituted and designated the Wood Badge.Very soon the wearing of beads on the hat was discontinued and instead they were strung on a leather thong or boot-lace around the neck. The very first Wood Badges were made from beads from a necklace that had belonged to a Zulu chief named Dinizulu. There is some controversy as to how Baden Powell came to own the necklace. But I'm not going to go there!! The necklace was 12 feet long and contained about 1,000 beads. The beads varied in size from being very small to as big as 4 inches. The Zulus considered the necklaces being sacred, being the badge conferred on royalty and outstanding warriors. It was made from South African Acacia yellow wood. The first sets of beads were all from the original necklace, but as the supply dwindled in early courses one bead was taken from the necklace and the participants had to carve the other from hornbeam or beech. Eventually the wood beads became the norm. In England two bead necklaces were worn by Scouter's, three beads by Assistant Leader Trainers (formerly known as Assistant Camp Chiefs) four beads by Leader Trainers (Deputy Camp Chiefs.)In recent years the practice of awarding three and four bead necklaces in England has now ceased. There was for a very brief time a system in place for Wolf Cub Leaders (All packs were Wolf Cub Packs.) From about 1922 till 1925 Wolf Cub there was the Wolf's Fang or the Akela Badge. The badge was made out of bone tooth fangs or wooden replicas. Wolf Cub Leader Trainers wore two fangs. This was done away with on November 13,1925. However the Committee of the Council (Very much like our National Executive Board, and still going strong.)thought that there needed to be a distinctive mark to show in what section the Leader was working. The mark took the form of a small abacus-type bead, placed above the knot on the Wood Badge necklace. Yellow for Cubs,green for Scouts and red for Rovers. This didn't last long as the Committee of The Council decided it would cease at a meeting held o October 14, 1927. According to records in Baden Powell House and at Gilwell park, when foreign countries (outside England!!) Established Wood Badge Training after the pattern set by Gilwell, the person in charge of originating the course was designated a Gilwell Deputy Camp Chief, representing Gilwell Park in his own country. According to a tradition supposedly established by Baden Powell that person could wear fivebeads. Most of the fifth beads were presented in the 1920s and 1930s but what has happened to them and who wore them is not known by the British. I have been informed that Greenbar Bill Hillcourt was awarded five beads. Baden Powell himself wore six beads. He did award a set of six beads to Sir Percy Everett, a friend who had been with him at Brownsea Island in 1907 and who became the Commissioner For Training and later the Deputy Chief Scout. In 1949 Sir Percy presented his six bead necklace back to Gilwell Park to be worn as the badge of office of the Camp Chief. (The person on staff at Gilwell Park in charge of Training.) John Thurman the then Camp Chief wore it until his retirement in 1969, when it was passed Bryan Dodgson the Director Of Leader Training,following his retirement in 1983 and a reorganization in staff titles it was worn by Derek Twine then the Executive Commissioner Program and Training. Today it is worn by Stephen Peck Director of program and development. As far as I know here in the USA we only go as high as four beads. I do wear my four bead necklace with a lot of pride. However if things changed and we all started to wear only the two bead necklace, I don't think that it would be a bad thing. There are a few people who do go a Wood Badge Course in order to get the bead. A good Scoutmaster will spot these guys and get them to see the light or send them packing. Eamonn

I seen this ceremony done at the very first Pow Wow I ever attended. The Flaming was very impressive. Sad to report the extinguishing needed work.The neckerchief caught fire!! I have used chemicals (Mainly chlorine and brake fluid) to start camp fires. Normally at adult only events and even then it is something that just happens, we don't go out of our way to share who it works. Eamonn

I am not really that up on this.My son was / is interested in being part of the Trail Crew. But with NOAC so many other things going on he has put off till next year. We have the application and will send it in within the next few weeks for next year. I feel fairly sure that it is too late for this year. Eamonn

Many of us old folks were raised on meeting standards. Life wasn't that hard, things were set down in black and white. You passed or you failed. You met the Standard or you didn't. Looking back at Scouting UK, in my day there was the Scout Standard and the Advanced Scout Standard. Nothing that as a Leader I had to worry about. The requirement read tie six knots and two lashings and build a camp gadget. The Scout could or couldn't tie the knots and he did or didn't build the gadget. Just like a Merit Badge Counselor can't change the requirements for a merit badge and most of the requirements that our Scouts meet on the way to First Class. I say most because of the requirement that asks a Scout to demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your everyday life. As we move on there is requirements that ask the Scoutmaster to approve service projects, and there are requirements to be active and serve actively. Hey!! This is tough. This is making demands on the Scoutmaster and to some extend the Troop Committee. This is making demands on the Scout. A few of us see this as getting the Scout to set goals and meet them. What happens when he doesn't meet the goals that he set? What happens when due to something beyond the Scouts control the goals can't be met? How good are we at working with our Scouts in helping them establish goals. Are we helping them by using SMART goals: Specific. Measurable. Attainable. Relevant. Time Based. When they set goals are we asking them to include: Who. What. Where. When. How. Why. How verified? I think if we use the above when we work with each Scout when he is setting his goals we will avoid some if not most of the gray areas that we seem to be worried about. I see no harm in having a list like this one copied and having the Scout and the Scoutmaster work hand in hand using it to get the job done. If something comes up and the Scout needs to change his goal. It can be changed. If the ever vigilant Scoutmaster sees that the Scout isn't working toward his goal. I see no harm in him meeting with the Scout and asking "What's going on?" I was going to say that a list like this could replace a lot of Bylaws - But I'm not going too!! Eamonn

Ed I am really overjoyed that we found some common ground and agree that there is something to take away from all this. Just as a matter of interest to me when did the Northeast Region change from five to four. I'm guessing that you did your Wood Badge with Greater Pitt. Eamonn

Of course the big problem as I see it is that the DE is doing the presentation to the Boys. Like it or not when the DE, does a presentation he or she is making a Sales Call. Bad thing is that in some cases they don't know enough about the product they are selling (Your program.) And in some cases they might get a little bit carried away. Sad as this is going to sound it is true. We have an Elementary School not that far from where I live. My son went there. The Principle is a great guy an Eagle Scout and serves on the District Committee. As a District our Cub Scout Density is running about 23%. At this school I think it's nearer 45%. I would go in to do the boy talks and I knew almost all the Lads. Talking to the little guys in first, second and even third grade wasn't that hard. The forth and fifth grade was tough. So many of these Lads had been in Cub Scouting and had quit. I laughed the other day when someone posted about the Lady having 101 crafts that could be made from toilet paper rolls. Sad to say these Lads were in packs where this Lady had been way too active!! These little guys had been let down by us. Trying to get them back is an uphill task. In their eyes Scouting is sissy!! At times I think we can try and over compensate by "Selling" something that isn't there.It's easy too talk about Philmont - The fact is that no troop from the District has been to Philmont in a coons age. Recruiting Lads in the 5Th grade and above is hard. I have put my money on "One on One" recruiting. We have to somehow, someway get the Scouts that we have to do more to get their pals to join their troop. We have to somehow, someway get the troops to look at the vision of Scouting and then use the program and the methods to make the vision a reality. I have gone into schools to do Boy Talks for Boy Scouts. At the other end of the District we have a troop that meets on a Friday night, over the years I have looked in and visited them. There they are six of them sometimes less sitting around a table in the church hall. The Leader is a nice chap, maybe not the brightest light on the Christmas tree, but a nice chap. Been through Wood Badge. But they don't do anything!!! Can I put my hand on my heart and say that I want to see a young bright eyed, adventure seeking, fun loving Lad join that troop? Eamonn

Michelle, Please believe me I feel your pain. I wish that I could look in my book of Fix Its', and give you the Fix It. I did notice that you didn't make any mention of the chartered organization in your posting? Could they do anything to help? You might want to meet with all the adults in the pack and explain to them that for now you are all going to put membership on the back burner and that your new goal is make Pack 123?? The Best Show In Town. Grab the program by the scruff of the neck and go all out to ensure that the Scouts that you do have are having the greatest possible Scouting experience. While you are doing it send tons and tons of articles to your local newspapers, photos of the Scouts from pack 123 doing all sorts of neat stuff. Whatever happens don't tell them that "The Pack is going to die." No one wants to join a sinking ship. Most councils have some sort of a school sign up in the Fall. Spent some time getting ready for it. Make a table top display, use the photos and newspaper clippings to show how active you really are. Some years back as a fund raiser I had a friend of mine who is a professional photographer, take pictures of each of the Cub Scouts, the picture was posed with the American Flag in the background. He gave me a couple of extra sets, at School Sign up night these photographs made the back drop to the packs display. You don't need to use a professional, get a parent or leader to take the pictures. One of the places that I found really worked for recruiting was my back yard. Every year we had the pack picnic in my back yard. I live out in the sticks, the yard is large. The first year the program was just a few games, building blue bird boxes (donated by the game commission) something to eat and a camp fire. It really grew. We ended up with giant tepees, the local firemen bring fire trucks for the scouts to climb on, medi-vac helicopters, with permission from the council and trained staff we had an Archery range and the blue bird boxes. I think we have the best housed blue bird population in the nation!! While this was a pack 155 event we invited all boys of Scout age and their families in the area. Baked beans, hot dogs and spuds are cheap. While Father and son were building boxes or whatever, I would turn on the charm and sign up the Mom. When the Fire Department seen that the kids were having fun they provided the fire hall for the Blue and Gold and meeting rooms for the dens that didn't meet in Den Leaders homes, they donated stuff to the pack and in time the wife of the "Head Fireman" became the Pack Committee Chair. Cub Scouting is home and neighborhood based, sad to say the neighborhood isn't going to come to you. You have to go to them. When they see and feel your passion and see that this program works and is doing good they will want to be part of the action. As the local community sees that Pack 123 is alive and doing stuff and that the kids are having fun and doing good stuff in the community the list of "Priorities" and that mind set will change. Maybe not overnight, but it will change. Then like in the movie the Field Of Dreams; They Will COME. Good Luck. Eamonn

Could it be that we are sending American made Chop Sticks for use by the Boy Scouts Of China? Eamonn

Hey The Man from Uncle, My position came with a term limit!! You can bet that there are a few non- Eamonn fan club members that are counting the days. I don't know why, but that makes me smile. Could it be that I have the Rolling Stones playing "You don't always get what you want." On the CD player - Nah it's just a coincidence!! Eamonn

OK Dan, You are the Scoutmaster in the District. I'm the District Chairman - You Work for me? It don't work that way. The BSA has a program. Some of us like to think that it is a good one. The BSA goes into partnership with other organizations. All sorts of papers are signed and the BSA allows these other organizations to use the program. These other organizations select the person that they feel will be their Scoutmaster. If they want they can make stipulations about who they want to be their Scoutmaster. We in fact have one CO in the Council that will not sign off on their Charter until they have met with each and every adult on that charter. You as Scoutmaster serve at their pleasure. I was self-employed for a good number of years. While I know that I was the worst boss that I ever had. I could do what I wanted. If I had wanted to not work I could hire people to do what I might have or should have been doing. I was the boss. When I opened my second location I hired a manager. I shared with him my goals, my expectations and how I wanted things to be done. Once he was trained I got out of his way. I used to look in, at first a couple of times a week and then it got down to about once a week and it was no big deal to me if I missed a week. He was responsible for running the place but he worked for me. Just as a Scoutmaster works for the chartered organization using the program that they have chosen. The best of British Luck with the lottery. Maybe if you win big I will pay a visit to Three Fires Council and you can pay for the drinks!! Eamonn

Ed, OK, so what has happened is the question at hand. You could be 100% right about how this non-hiking Scout acted. I think that we will agree that matters of discipline are handled by the troop committee. I know that you are a Wood Badge Scouter. I think you took the pre 21st Century course? Let us for a minute do a quick reflection on this. Was the event planned? It sounds as if it was planned by the PLC. How did we communicate the plan to the Patrol members? We have no way of knowing this. Did this Lad know before he went to the camp that hiking was going to be on the program? How could we have presented the idea to the Scout in such a way that he might want to go on the hike? How could we have managed this better? Ed you and I weren't there but there is a lot of stuff that the Patrol Leaders and the adults can learn from this. Eamonn

I don't have a problem with matches. I have seen lighters misused by Scouts - Nothing that "That Look" doesn't fix. Some school districts view a Lad having matches or a lighter on his person as owning smoking materials. You might want to warn the Scouts and their parents, so they don't take them to school and end up in hot water. Please before we have six pages about the rights or wrongs of this you might want to talk to the school board. Eamonn

Dan, I feel sure that you will have to agree that just because some people don't play the game by the rules it doesn't make them right. If you do hit the lottery, please remember that I have an FOS goal!! All donations are gratefully accepted. Eamonn

My first thought was that you should roll up a copy of the G2SS take it too your Scout Service Center and give the people that work there a couple of good whacks!! However this is not how to get things done. You might want to make your charter rep aware of the problem and send him packing to the next District Committee Meeting. Here he can present your case and the good people there take it to the next level. At the same time you could bring your concerns to your Unit Commissioner and if he or she is doing a good job it will come up at the Commissioners meeting and the District Commissioner will bring it up at the key3 meeting. Depending on who your District Chairman is, he might very well get a rolled up copy of the G2SS and give a couple of good whacks to a couple of people. (Just joking!!) Eamonn

Is that a case of "Long may she rain?" Eamonn

I of course can't talk for Bob White. I do think that he brought up the different styles of leadership in order to show young MrHa Ha HA that maybe, just maybe he could have used a different style of leadership in order to get the job done. Look at how Ha Ha HA describes it " We told him him that he had to go." Ed how would you respond to being told that you have to do something? While of course the question wasn't "What could we have done in order to get this Scout to join us?" I think that Bob made a very valid point. If only to show that there is more then one way of skinning a cat. Not that I have ever skinned a cat!! Eamonn

Fuzzy Bear, While I agree with most of what you have posted. I don't agree that the BSA doesn't have a policy on numbers.This is clearly shown in the requirements for Quality District and Quality Council. I don't think that the BSA has ever requested anyone one to cheat or lie.In fact I'm not sure if those behind some of the programs that I have mentioned don't think that they are doing a wonderful job? I'm not even sure if what they are doing isn't in line with the way we are heading.It could be that this is some new way of thinking. Kind of along the lines that any program is better then nothing. I think that I'm a very lucky little fellow!! Most of the people in the District are aware that Scouting is a living thing and like most living things when it stops growing it is in fact starting to die. I have a lot of good people who are willing to work their hearts out to ensure that we do grow. These people are all over the place, some are Cub Scouts who bring their pals to join their pack or den some are scouts, many are leaders and we have a very active membership committee. We never want to fail. I am aware that we have it easy. Here in the area in which we live the crime rate is low. Gangs don't exist and most of the kids come from good families. We don't really have a need for these "Out Of The Box" ideas. I'm not sure, but I wonder if the person or persons behind some of these ideas didn't attend a conference and hear about this new way of doing things? The TV was on tonight, I wasn't watching it but there was program about the police in LA and the problems that some parts of the city is having with gangs. I can see how some of these ideas might be used in areas like that. Eamonn

This is a real situation that came up in our District this year. An Eagle BOR reviewed a Scout and said that he wasn't active and turned him down. The boys father who has two other sons that reached the rank of Eagle Scout was none too happy. In fact he was so unhappy that he arrived at the Council Service Center, without an appointment and waited for half a day to talk with the Scout Exec. The Scout Exec gave him my phone number. I of course hadn't been involved with the BOR, but I put on my best Sherlock Holmes hat and went to work. The BOR had turned him down because he said that he hadn't made a lot of the troop meetings. When I pointed out that the Scoutmaster had signed off that the Lad had held the position of Chaplain Aide for six months since become a life Scout, some members of the board changed their story and said that as the Lad hadn't attended troop meetings on a regular basis that he wasn't demonstrating Scout spirit. I met with the Lad after checking that all the paper work was in order which it was. He was / is a really nice Lad maybe a little shy but a nice Lad. When I asked him why he hadn't been attending troop meetings. He explained to me that the troop met on Tuesdays and as well as being a Scout he was also a Jr. Fireman and he had been taking classes to become an EMT. The classes were also on Tuesday. Much as it pained me to have to deal with the Council Advancement Committee (I have posted some of the details) I requested that they meet with him. Which they did and the Lad is now an Eagle Scout. No he would never had met the 50% requirement. When I asked him why he hadn't informed the first BOR about the classes? He said that they never asked!! I'm fed up racing up and down this page trying to remember what the questions were and what Scout A and Scout B were doing.If I remember right Scout B was at every meeting but was a real little toad and Scout A was near to sainthood but not making every meeting. There could be all sorts of reasons why the Toad was at every meeting maybe troop night was the night that his parents went to Bingo? We deal with each Scout as an individual, we do everything we can to find out as much as we can about the Scout, gathering information from his Patrol Leader, the other Scouts in his patrol and of course from him. Even when dealing with the little toad, we might see that he is starting to really try to get things right and work with him on setting goals and him doing his best to reach them.How often have we seen the Lad who starts out as a little toad turn out to be a real prince. How often have we seen the good Lad fall in with the wrong crowd and not turn out as we thought he would? Cookie Cutter standards don't work. Rules that become meaningless don't work. True Leadership with a flexible outlook, and knowing each Scout is the only way to play this game and ensure that the purpose is reaching each and every player. Eamonn

I never thought as myself as having power? As adults we are here to serve the Scouts. While I agree that there are some behavior that can not be allowed or tolerated: Bullying, Hazing, use Of Drugs and Alcohol and that list could go on. I'm big on manners and like to deal with well mannered people be they adults or youths. I at times do turn a deaf ear depending on the situation. For example at the last Jamboree the troop was putting up tents. It was 100+degrees the ground was very hard and frustration was high. I visited each Patrol with my best "You Can do it speech" As I walked away I heard more then one Patrol say that I was full of it!! They were more then lightly right!! I choose to take plenty of no notice. If we lead using the Scout Oath and Law as our model making sure that we are being Kind, Cheerful and helping others. I have found that boys of Scout age respond very well to that. If we are aware of how a group works in order to get the task done that is a big help. I hate to see any Lad asked to leave Scouting. But in answer to your question matters of discipline ought to be handled by the troop committee and if a Scout is asked to leave the troop this should come from the chartered organization, most CO would allow the IHR to speak for them. In most cases the Scout would be allowed to join another troop, which if things have got this far would probably be the best thing all round. Again in most cases the District or Council would not want to get involved in a case like this, it is a matter for the Troop Committee and the Chartering Organization. Eamonn

Shell The next Course Director from our Council will be a female. Needless to say being a Bear helps!! Eamonn

Couple of things that we have done. Mailboxes: Each unit has a mail box with details about all the stuff that is going on. This could be in the district, council or just details that people want to share: Places to visit or details about programs that other organizations are running. If no one from the unit is at the meeting to pick up the mail it goes to the unit commissioner to be hand delivered. Key3 Newsletter: This has cut the time that the much dreaded announcements take to only a few words and best of all I don't have to hear the song; Announcements, announcements, announcements... Eamonn

I don't think that any of the rules have been broken. I should have titled this imaginary Scouts. These Kids do exist and I will bet that whatever paperwork was needed to keep thing "Legal" has been taken care of. But a pack that meets once a year? These in School Crews are having someone that goes into the school and does present something out of some Venturing book. There are those who will say that this falls within the mission of Scouting. Which might well be very true. I just have a hard time thinking out of the box and seeing how this type of thing falls within the Vision. I will admit to not being that knowledgeable about Scoutreach. However from what I have seen and read the idea is a good one and if followed the strategies are "Doable." I'm not sure how we get from what the BSA is posting on their web site to some of the programs that I have heard about? I can see the need to send in paid volunteers or para-professionals to get new units up and running but there has to be a clear goal to make these units become traditional units within a given time. Eamonn

One of the most scenic parts of the UK is the Lake District. There is no Council Camps as we know them for Summer Camp. Most of the time a troop will make plans and summer camp is still a little bit like Brown Sea Island. I'm not sure how it came to pass but the County got the idea that some Scouts weren't getting to attend a Summer Camp. Plans were made and soon we had 1,500 Scouts on busses on their way to spent two weeks at Great Tower Camp Site. Great Tower is a great place for Scouts. 250 acres of heavily wooded and rocky terrain on the east side of Lake Windermere. As a rule we had normally taken the PLC to visit where we had hoped to spend Summer Camp. We normally did this over the Easter Holiday, when the Leaders had a long weekend. Good Friday and Easter Monday are holidays and the Scouts have 3 weeks off school. But because this was a County event and because I was dumb we didn't. We spent Easter in Holland as a troop. The troop was set up for patrol camping. Six man tents and cooking over wood fires. 250 acres of heavily wooded and rocky terrain didn't lend itself very well to our style of camping. But we got that sorted. No easy task when you have 12 patrols. Then it started to rain. We had "Soft Days" when the rain was like a heavy mist that just soaked you, we had wet days when it rained and we had heavy rain when it really rained and the patrol cooking fires were floating. It rained every day. The program which had times scheduled for the Lads to go sailing, canoeing,climbing and abseiling went out the window. We were the lucky ones most of our Lads had done a lot of camping and even if the equipment that we had wasn't suited to where we were at it was in good shape. Sad to say some of the Troops from the East End of London had neither the experience, equipment or leadership. We had taken our mini busses up with the equipment and when the program fell apart we took the Scouts out to visit Steam Railways, museums. We fed them a lot of Fish n'Chips. But even doing this trying to remain Cheerful was an uphill task. The Kids shoes and boots were soaked with little or no hope of ever being dry. We found a store that was having a sale of Wellington Boots we struck a deal and got the store to reduce the price even more. Soon you knew which Scouts belonged to the 17th. They were the guys in the green wellies!! The Green Wellies became a symbol of having made it in the years that followed. We held daily leaders meetings and as the days past and the rain kept falling we thought of ways to try and raise the spirits of these poor wet kids. I said that a Camp Fire might help. There were those who said that we would never get this bunch to sing. There was a big covered area where we squeezed everyone in. I don't think that I will ever forget the smell of wet, smokey, musty Scouts. I don't know why but I remember this as being the best camp fire ever. The final day needless to say the sun came out and we loaded the Scouts on busses. I drove one of the mini vans home with two Scouts. I wanted to stop and get something to eat, but was unable to wake them. I suppose today we would have a t-shirt made, that would have some clever wording saying that we had made it through the worst summer camp ever. But we all had our green Wellies. We never went back to the Lake District, one of the Patrol Leaders brought it up once at a PLC. He was lucky that he made it out alive!! Eamonn

I have never sat on any such board. I can see that if or when it became apparent or obvious that the Scout wasn't performing or keeping his end of the agreement that he should have been removed from the position. But that doesn't answer the question as to what the board of review is to do? In this case? I am not as well versed on advancement as maybe I should be. So maybe you wise people could tell me why for all ranks other then the rank of Eagle Scout it says "Complete your board of review." But for the rank of Eagle Scout it changes and becomes "Successfully complete an Eagle Scout board of review." I can of course see why the words Eagle Scout are there but why does the word Successfully suddenly appear? Eamonn

Don't know about sage advise?? The troop that my son is in, is not perfect. Scoutmaster is a nice fellow, years on the job but it is only lately that he started using the Patrol method. I think he always knew about it but just didn't get there.It could be that the SPL attending JLTC as a staffer might have brought about the change. The troop is of a fair size, about 40 Scouts and has a lot of adult support. In fact maybe too much? Many of the adults feel that it is about time for the Scoutmaster to step down, but would never push this as he is a nice fellow. About a year or so back one of the dissatisfied leaders got together with some of the older Scouts, one of which is his son and they formed a Crew. Sad to say this Leader is not really the outdoor type and the Crew is listed as being High Adventure. Things started off really well. There was elections and a Crew T-shirt and then nothing. The Crew wanted to go skiing but at the last minute the leader couldn't go. I ended up taking them. So far they have managed one weekend at our local camp site. They have no plans in the making for a super activity this year or any year. The Crew President has quit, the only female has quit and all that seems to be left is a charter and some t-shirts!! Trying to serve two masters is hard for adults, when we make our Scouts try and have a foot in an established troop and a fledgling crew.The initial excitement from the Scouts is high but unless the crew has real adult leadership to get the crew up and running I think that the failure rate is high. Some of us really like our pro. Scouting partners but we are here for the youth not the adults be they professional or volunteer. Eamonn