Eamonn

I don't know as there is any hard and fast rules. But you are not the first person to ask. I had a participant on NE-IV-153 ask the same the same question. Here is what I came up with. It is not a rule and if there is such a rule I would love to see it. You should be in full proper uniform. If you are with a den you should wear the den neckerchief. If you serve as an adult in a troop or crew you should follow what ever uniform they wear. However, if you are doing an activity that is not a unit activity feel free to wear the Troop #1 neckerchief, until you complete your ticket, then you may wear the Wood Badge regalia. Unless you are staffing a course it is not appropriate to wear the #1 with Wood Badge beads. Eamonn.

I agree with what Hunt wrote. I have no argument with it what so ever. But add it to the Big Book Of Rules and let's look at the gray area Hunt posted: the Scout is EXPECTED to be present to race. If he absolutely can't be present, he should arrange with his Den (not the CM) for his car to be raced by proxy. Hunt had a very good reason why his little fellow was unable to be there. The word absolutely is open to all sorts of interpretations. So we would take it to some other level. A Doctors excuse? I don't know about your Doctor? As a rule it takes three days to see our Doctor, by which time most kids are feeling better. At the end of the day it comes down to a judgment call anyway!! Rules that will cover every gray area just get bigger and bigger and more cumbersome. If someone is not playing this game as it should be played, it falls on us the leaders to show that we are playing the game by the Scout Oath and Law. If we use this as our guide, no matter what we will sleep well at night. If someone is in the wrong they are just wrong we don't need tomes of rules to prove that they are wrong. Eamonn

Boy Oh Boy, did I miss the point!! I thought that the boy was there without his parent. I don't like big books of rules, because of situations like Hunt described. I think who ever is in charge of the race (The Pack Committee?) Should treat each case on it's merits. Eamonn

I am /was a Bear when I took the old Cub Scout course. Now my Her Who Must Be Obeyed informs me that I am a Bear at different times during the day. I had better watch myself or she will be telling me that She "Can bear no more !!" (She can't send me back, after more than 20 years I'm non-returnable.) Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Vicki, I'm guessing that you are a female? In which case headgear for females is optional. http://www.scoutstuff.org/misc/isheets/34281.pdf Eamonn

I have not seen the syllabus for this new course, so I really ought not comment on it. I think I remember hearing that the course would or could also be open to Venturers? If so being that the campaign hat is not part of what might be termed the "Official" ( I know already about what a Venturing uniform can be!!) Uniform, then it would be out of line to ask adults who serve in the Venturing program to wear or buy one. I have to admit when I was CD for a Wood Badge course, the idea of having the staff look like a Rockwell painting did really appeal to me. But being as we had Cub Scouter's, Boy Scouter's, and Venturing adults on staff I would not be following the insignia guide. I suppose we could have got away with asking everyone to wear the Red wool jacket, but when I really thought about it, the important thing is that the staff were in correct uniform and that the syllabus was followed. Add to this I look like a right twit with a campaign hat on -Even more of a twit than I do without the darn thing. For the course we had ball caps made. It added a little over five bucks to the cost of the course. Scouting does seem to cost more and more as you do more. The CD conference was not reimbursable and was a fair sized chunk of cash, I think it was $225.00, plus the trip to New Jersey. Gifts for the staff cost over $300.00 and the course fee was $200.00. Add that to the everyday Scouting expenses and it really does add up. Most of the meetings have become dinner meetings and someone is padding the bill. $25.00 for a stuffed chicken breast!! Board members were expected to donate at the $500.00 level, that expectation is now $1,200. Who ever coined the phrase "Give till it hurts" must have belonged to the Council that I'm in. Still it's a lot cheaper than hunting!! Eamonn.

Members of the Regional Board, which would include: Regional President. Regional Vice Presidents,Operations Group Area Presidents,Area Vice Presidents Cluster Cluster Councils, Area Task Force Groups, Region Executive Staff, Area Directors,Some Regional Support Staff. Two youth members sit on the Regional board one from Venturing and one from the OA. It would be possible for these youth members to be under 18. At special events such as the National Jamboree other people may be asked to perform duties for the Region and may wear the Regional patch and yellow loops for the event. Hope this helps. Eamonn

We do it for the boys. Sounds to me as if this little Lad needs all the help we can offer. Eamonn.

Me thinks that there used to be a "Introduction to Youth Protection". It was part of the old Cub Scout Basic. Is that the video you mean? Eamonn

If and when the the BSA will go co-ed? I really don't know. It does seem that for some reason we are very protective about our programs and who does what. The National Jamboree is a Boy Scout Jamboree. The OA is a Boy Scout program. The debate as to the merits of keeping Cub Scouting and Boy Scouts programs for boys has been going on for a very long time. Some of our chartering organizations do not want things to change. A lot of our old timer leaders would sooner eat their campaign hats than even hear about females joining troops. Reading OGE's posting I have to admit that I was a little bit taken back when I visited the OA web site the other day and seen that some of the Regional Chiefs were only 18. As far as I can remember the youngest Lodge Chief we have ever had in our Lodge is 17. Eamonn.

Reading this makes me really glad that I don't serve at the unit level. Eamonn

Why he should be in the OA? Its not a ton of fun is it? What great questions. I wish more people would spent time asking them before they take their Ordeal. If you don't mind I would take the second part first. The OA is like a lot of other things, you only get out what you put in. I have been a Brotherhood member of our Lodge for a very long time. I pay my dues and make the occasional weekend. For lots of different reasons I have never really got that involved. My Son,really got involved he joined a committee and really got to know everyone in the Lodge, he has attended Conclaves,NOAC, all sorts of trainings, some close to home and some in other states. He has signed up for the OA Trail-crew at Philmont next summer. He is serving his second term as Vice Chief and plans to run for Chief later this year. It goes without saying, he is getting a lot more out of his OA experience than I am, but he is putting a lot more time and effort in. I think this is true about most things that we do. Honor is a word that we use a lot in Scouting. I think when BP chose the word he was thinking about Knights and chivalry, but I of course have no real way of knowing that. When you look up the word honor it has lots of different meanings. To be elected by your peers to become a member of Scoutings Honor Society is a great honor in itself! The brotherhood of cheerful service is an extension of the "Do a good turn daily" and the Scout Law. OA membership once you have been elected is a individual thing. No one is going to mollycoddle or make you attend OA activities.It is up to the individual to decide how active he is going to be. I like to think that OA membership goes a long way to really show that the idea of brotherhood is alive and well in the BSA. Eamonn.

Looks as if I will have to see about taking a role in the Wizard Of Oz - Being that I'm over 40 and still think of myself as being to the left. I think that there is a time and place for everything and maybe we might take a lesson from Johnny Cash: This musical aggregation toured the entire nation Singing the traditional ballads And the folk songs of our land They performed with great virtuosity And soon they were the rage But political animosity prevailed upon the stage Now this should be a lesson if you plan to start a folk group Don't go mixin' politics with the folk songs of our land Just work on harmony and diction Play your banjo well And if you have political convictions keep them to yourself. Eamonn.

COIcampgirl04, I really do admire your enthusiasm. Sad to say there is a real shortage of people who can afford to escape to camp. These Scout loving, camp loving, qualified and much needed people need money. They would love to spend the summer at camp, but without a realistic amount of money, call it by whatever name you want: Wage or Stipend. They just can't afford to work at camp. This means that in many camps the staff is becoming a group of people who are not so qualified and are the same age as the campers. How does a 16 or 17 year old camper feel about turning up to do a Merit Badge and finding out that the Staff member is a Lad younger then he is? Worse still is that these young staff members who will be experienced "Old timers" will not be able to return because they too will find that working at camp is not going to pay enough to see them through college expenses for a year. I feel sure that most normal people given the choice of working at camp or manning the hot grease at a fast food joint would opt for the camp. I really do firmly believe that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Surely you have to see that if we improve the overall quality of the staff at camp, the camp will be better. If the camp is better more people will want to come and be willing to pay a few extra dollars. Look at the age of the Lads attending summer camp, they are a lot younger than in the past. We are not doing everything that we can too meet the expectations of the older camper. Our Scoutmasters are coming away from camp complaining that the staff are not meeting their expectations. I hear the same complaint time and time again "The Staff is to young and immature". While money will alone not address all these problems, hopefully a larger amount of money will attract more applicants and the people in charge will be able to be more selective about who they hire. The staff will want to do a better job, because they don't want to lose a good job that pays well. As things are why worry the job "Paid peanuts!!" We have Lads mowing grass in the small town near where I live, they are getting $25.00 for mowing a small yard. They can get a dozen or so a week. I look at our camp and I see people who are retired and young really young (15 year olds) as the staffers. I don't know where the camp would be without the retirees. For many of the young staff members this is their first job, they have a really hard time remembering that they are not campers. Even with hours of training they just don't grasp the idea that they are in camp to serve the needs of the campers. They are having a hard time trying to meet the expectations of the campers and will never exceed their expectations. We can bury our heads in the sand and try to pretend that the older campers are returning or will return, but it is not true. If it wasn't for the Cub Scout resident campers we would see camps cutting back. We used to have eight weeks of summer camp, we cut back to six. This again hurts the staffer going off to college less weeks means less money. I was very fortunate that I was able to work an entire summer for no pay. The BSA gave us International guys a tour of the east coast at the end of our summer camp work experience. My Dad provided the money I needed not only for that summer but to see me through college the following year. I had the best time and loved each and every minute. If my son came home and said that he was going to spend the summer working at a camp in England, I would get my check book out. As it is he is off next summer to staff the Jamboree and pay to be a staff member, he is also off to Philmont with the OA Trail-Crew, the cost is very small but getting there and back isn't cheap. He is also forfeiting the chance to make any money next summer. This is what is really going to hurt him. I can afford to help him get to these places and enjoy them. But for the next year he has given up a lot of his independence, he will have to come to his parents and ask for the money he needs. He really wants a Apple juke box thing?? I gave him a small mp3 player and I don't see the need for this other thing. I can say that because it's my cash. If it was his, he could go out and buy the thing. As I say I do admire your enthusiasm, but other people may have needs that maybe you don't. Eamonn.

I like to think of myself as being very much a people person. My Dad was a really super person, I have never worked out why everybody liked him so much. Everyone thinks that their Dad is great, but I have never met anyone who didn't like him. He was very quite and softly spoken. He did become, thanks to hard work a fairly wealthy man. But he never showed it. He never ever bought a new car. Hated credit, I seen him buy houses for cash, not checks but cold cash. One reason I think people liked him so much was because they felt sorry for him. My Mother was very talkative, in fact she never stopped. She just talked and talked. She was wasn't as nice a person as my Dad. He was by far the kindest person I ever knew. So some how I have or like to think I have inherited things from both of them. I know that I am not as kind a person as he was. I do really try but he didn't have to try. Some people find it hard to believe that I really enjoy my own company. Give me a good book and a quite corner and I'm happy for hours. I can and at times am expected to be the life and soul of the party. There are times when I find this very tiresome. A few years before I became re-activated in Scouting. I became very aware that I was working too much. (Weeks on end of days that were 18 hour days) And I wasn't having much fun.I started too look for reasons why? The more I looked at what I was doing the more I found that I was in competition with my older brother. I wanted to beat him, be better than him. It was all really very dumb. This led me to start looking at Self Help books. After a fair amount of reading I found out that taking care of me is the most important thing. This sounds very selfish. But it is so very true. I have to be aware of me, how I am feeling and if possible why I am feeling that way. For a while I really got into the whole "Inner Child" thing. A lot of the material dealt with "Healing The Inner Child". I think that I had a wonderful childhood and that there are no skeletons hidden away anywhere.So trying to fix something that wasn't broke seemed a bit silly. Being aware of how I was feeling and taking ownership of my feelings, did help me become a much better listener. Expressing how I was feeling and not holding things in made me feel that I was a lot more honest. It would be nice if we didn't judge others, but I know I do. At times I see the car, I see the clothes and these can mask the real person. I have also been guilty of placing the wrong person in the wrong position/job and then when they fail I want to blame them and not myself. My biggest failing when it comes to judging others is that I allow history to get in the way. I may have attended a meeting and someone has had the audacity to disagree with the "Great me" and maybe not have had a sound reason or argument. When I meet them again or have to work with them, getting past that is hard for me. We have a Lady in our Council, she was the worlds greatest authority on Cub Scouting, she was the R/T Commissioner in another District. Needless to say Her R/T Staff were the biggest, brightest and best. She was also the Camp Director for our resident Cub Scout Camp. I sat on the camping committee for a while as our District Cub Camping Chair. She hated Parent& Son weekends, her thinking was that they took the little guys away from resident camp. I thought that Parent& Son weekends were Cub Scouting at it's all time best!! We spent many meetings in total disagreement. When I took on the task of Wood Badge Director, I asked her if she would be the Scribe. I had seen the material that she had put together for the R/Ts and I knew she was the best person for the job. Everyone said I was nuts. Everyone said that I was asking for trouble. She did a wonderful job. I knew that she would. But she was just so nice, she was a living example of the Scout Oath and Law. We have become very close friends. She is a really nice person. I very nearly lost out on having such a fine and wonderful friend, because I was allowing our past history to get in the way. Someone up there was doing what he does best and I am truly grateful that He is keeping an eye out for me. "Assumptions are the termites of relationships." ~Henry Winkler Eamonn

Rory, the Golden Retriever puppy that my wife bought as a surprise Christmas gift for me is growing. Both Her Who Must Be Obeyed and myself really like dogs. The house isn't full of dog pictures and while I do have a coffee mug with Golden Retrievers on that's about the extend of it. Her Who Must Be Obeyed, has a brother who is dog mad. Everywhere in his house there are pictures of dogs, in fact it is a bit over the top. We have Shane. His papers say that he is a Family Quality, AKC Shetland Sheepdog. He is family quality because he is big. In fact he looks just like Lassie. A friend of ours bought Shane, but he said his two girls were teenagers and just didn't have the time to spend with him. How you could give such a wonderful dog away? It just amazes me. That was nine years ago, OJ was seven and Shane became his dog. He slept and still sleeps in OJ's room. OJ, being an only child and us living out in the sticks, with no neighbors. Shane was his playmate. Shane loved to play ball, he would play till his mouth bled. OJ, would take off on his bike and Shane would run along beside him. When Shane came to live with us we still had Woofter. Woofter was a Manchester Terrier. She ruled the house. She was supposed to be Her That Must Be Obeyed dog, but everyone including her knew she was mine.She was a tiny little thing when we got her. We lived in London at the time and had to take her to the local park for her walks. People said when she was a pup that she looked like a mouse on stilts. The Lads in the troop loved her a made a big fuss of her. As a pup she loved to climb up and sit around my neck then fall asleep. It cost me a fortune to fly Woof over and it's always been a bit of a joke that it cost me more to fly her over than it cost me to fly HWMBO. Woof flew Delta and we flew Peoples Express. My Father in-law really fell in love with her from day one. The fact that he was able to read the newspapers that we had lined her shipping crate with really got to him. The poor dog had not gone to the bathroom once while traveling. Our hearts were broken when the sad day came. Woof was almost 16. Joey I call him Joe, is here under false pretenses. OJ and I had been away camping and HWMBO, said that someone had tried to break in the house, Shane doesn't bark, the Lady Woof in her time had been a magnificent guard dog, but with age her hearing wasn't that great. I was given three choices: Not to go away, She would buy a gun, or we bought a guard dog. Joe is an English Setter HWMBO, seen his picture and said that he looked "Frisky". I thought something was wrong the day I picked him up, he just climbed in the backseat and went to sleep. Sleeping seems to be his favorite pastime. He is the most loving, gentlest dog I have ever met. I love his dearly.Joe was a hunting dog that didn't make the grade, he was almost two when he took up residence on his chair. While it has never been said in words, poor Shane is getting old. When I would take him and Joe out, he would stop about half way. His teeth started to fall out and he is having a hard time with the steps. Rory is here to help me get over the sad day when it comes. I am the emotional one in our house. We have not had a puppy in over twenty years.Rory is now going on eleven weeks. The going is rough. Puppy proofing a house that you live in, is next to impossible. We have a crate for him, but I don't want a dog-in-a -box. I want a dog that will be my loyal and trusted friend for as long as he is with me. At times that day seems a very long way off. We have tried paper training him and he chews the paper, so we make trips outside every forty minutes and praise the heck out of him when he does what he is supposed to do. He then comes in and pees on the carpet. We have put more miles on the carpet cleaner that I have on my car. I am not supposed to bend or pick up anything over five pound. Cleaning up after him is a pain. OJ, has been good about taking him out, but doesn't seem to understand that a tired puppy is a happy puppy. They go out but are back in next to no time. I have undertaken the job of the long walk. I look like an advertisement for Columbia Sports wear. It has been so very cold and we have about eight inches of snow on the ground. Just getting dressed seems a chore in it self. But around 2:00 PM, we set off on our walk. He is so happy to be out and everything is so new to him. He chases little bits of snow that he has moved. Our yard is about six acres and next door we have an antique farm equipment museum, they have about sixty acres, about half way there is a covered bridge, when we reach this we turn around and head for home. All in all we are gone for almost an hour. Rory takes a nap and I **** about how cold it is. For a while everything seems to be normal. Joe is happy, Rory likes to chew Joe's tail. Joe is so gentle that he runs to me and looks pathetic. Shane has taken to joining us on our walks, going the entire distance. He refuses to put up with any puppy play, he shows his teeth, what's left of them. Rory seems to get the message. What ever happens Rory is going to be a good dog. We start classes after Valentines Day. It would be easy to quit, but I wouldn't get what I want. I can't help thinking about how much having a pup is like kids. I love to watch him grow, watch him play. While I know that he was a very expensive dog, but from here on in there will be the everyday expenses of having a dog, but my biggest investment in him is time.Together we will discover what is and what isn't acceptable. He will outgrow a lot of things that he now does. (Joe is hoping that his tail chewing days will end real soon - That is hard on a Lads duster!!) We have puppy school and obedience school classes all lined up. He will be a educated little fellow. A lot of what I think about dogs, I think about kids. Are there any bad dogs? I don't think so, just dogs that didn't get the love care and training that they need to be good. A dog that someone has invested time in will do better than one that is left to it's own devises. A little love goes a long way, a lot of love goes a lot further. Of course kids are much more important than dogs. Pam my now retired DE and I were talking her daughter is expecting grandchild number two. She of course is overjoyed. I said that OJ has been told that any grandkids that he presents me with had better wait for a long time!! I am not sure if I could manage having a baby in the house full time, but the idea of a little person who I can hand back doesn't seem so bad. There have been times when I wish that I could hand Rory back. At times he seems he is just twenty odd pound of sharp puppy teeth. But the little fellow is so darn cute. Eamonn.

One pack in our District does hold a Soap Box derby. I will see what I can get and either post it here or PM you. Years ago this was really big in the UK. You might want to look at the UK Scouting web site. Unc. Before your time we had a very nice pro. Scouter in these forums. He was known as The Man Of Steele, Steele was/is his last name. His Lady Wife held several black belts. Here we have a true case of Her Who Must Be Obeyed!! Eamonn Dave if you are lurking, Hi -Hope you are being good!!

OGE -Bad? Never!! Add a dash of whole milk and a spoon of sugar and I would join you. Eamonn

Hold on very tight!! I find that I am in total agreement with Backpacker and BadenP!! BadenP posted: ".. As a former senior DE I have witnessed DE's and SE's do some unscrupulous things." I have tried to be nice and use the word "Creative" and not use unscrupulous. I really wish with all my heart that I could disagree with him - But I can't and it hurts!! Yesterday I spoke with a ex DE, this mess was brought up and he said how wrong it all was. He did however go on to say that with so much riding on Quality. So much being ; Bread on the table, money for retirement, just so very much. That while he couldn't condone such behaviour and it was a real mess. He did see why it might happen. Backpacker Posted: is the scouters who make this program work, we are the ones who help the boys, and it is we who can rise above the scandals by delivering an effective program to the youth that instills in them leadership and character qualities. Scouting is still one of the best youth programs being offered today in spite of a few corrupt individuals. You don't need Bob White to tell you that, it should be what motivates your own program. I am overjoyed to agree with every word. While I at this time serve on the District, Council and Area committees. I am very aware that what might be called "Real Scouting" doesn't happen at dinner meetings or in conference rooms. "Real Scouting" is where the rubber meets the road, in the Den Meetings, Troop meetings, Crew Meetings. This is where the program is delivered. When I look back on the time that I spent in Scouting, I see the relationships that I had with the people in the Pack, Troop and Venture Unit (UK Crew, at that time) As a youth member I didn't give a hoot to who served at the District level and above. Maybe as I grew older and learned more about the program, I discovered that the Leaders I had didn't do things by the book. But they were to me what Scouts and Scouting were all about. I was happy, in fact I was more than happy that these good people were willing to give up their time and do what they could for me. The repercussions from this mess have yet to be seen. I hope that there is a lot of thought given to finding a way of making the system better. Meanwhile the little Lad who is all thumbs will work on his knots, by spring he will have mastered them and will go off to a weekend camp-out, put this new skill to work and God willing he will have fun. Not because of what National has done or is doing, but because some nice person in his community has taken the time to work with him and maybe play with him. Eamonn.

As a rule the host council will invite some people from the other councils to be staff members. So the chances are that you will have some people you know on the course. The important thing is that you go. Eamonn

COLD TEA!! Yuck!! Her That Must Be Obeyed does ruin tea this way and is able to drink the foul brew. OJ will spend my hard earned cash on some stuff in a bottle. I have never got used to the amount of ice that people put in drinks. I like mine shaken and up!! Eamonn

Hi and Welcome. Much as I hate to be an fuddy duddy. I would keep clear of all martial arts. If the little guys see it they will want to copy what they have seen. What is the Theme for the Camp? I suggest that you work within your theme and KISMIF. Eamonn.

I have spoken with some friends in London who are very active in Scouting and they have not heard anything about a London Jamboree. The 2007 World Jamboree is just outside London and as yet we don't know what the age groups will be. At least the last letter I got from the International Division showed that. You might want to give the International Division a call. Eamonn

I don't think I can brag. I am very thankful that I have a kid that does his best. The report card is mostly B's with the odd A along with the odd C !! We are going through the "Terrible Teens". That age when "parents just don't understand" and are mindless morons! But every now and then we his parents are allowed to voice an opinion, on rare occasions we are even allowed to be right. Still he is a good kid. I give thanks that he is healthy and hasn't fallen in with a bad bunch. I seen so many of the pals that I went to school with try to be so super cool and fall victim to drugs. I am happy that he seems happy with the way things are. Sure he would be happier if that mean Father had bought him a car for his 16th birthday. But he knew that wasn't going to happen. Eamonn.

The list that SemperParatus has given is both comprehensive and seems to cover most if not all that I would have listed. One problem I have seen with new units is that they fail to make long term plans. Getting a new unit up and running is hard work, making sure it will last beyond the time that the originators will be around is really hard work. I have seen new units start with a few people who work their tails off. But they don't look to the future. One of the most important things that we all should be doing is looking for and training our replacement.It seems that we have people who are willing to take on more and more responsibilities and wear lots and lots of hats. Which seems all well and good at the time but the trouble starts when this person burns out or moves on. Then we have to look at finding 3 or 4 people to fill the void. Eamonn