Eamonn

Two Deep Leadership is the very core of our Youth Protection and is in the G2SS. Looking at what was /is the right thing to do. I did notify the SE. I very simply informed him what I had witnessed. I also said that I did not want to know what action he did or didn't take. That is none of my business. Eamonn

He was the Campmaster. No paperwork was done and the Scouts were from the unit where he is just about everything. (Lions Club holds the charter he is president, COR and Pack and Troop committee chair) Eamonn

What makes the perfect SPL? The perfect Scoutmaster. But no one is perfect. We all promise to do our best and even when we do we know that we could do better. Sometimes change takes a lot of time and even more hard work. Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, changing attitudes can be painfully slow. If you try to do it all at once or by using threats, or by waving this under the SM's nose it may not happen at all. Start off with small things, show that it really can work and slowly move on to the next thing. You may not get everything that you want, but you will have done your best. Hopefully when the time comes and you come to bat as the SM, you will remember how not to do things. Eamonn.

Who was the Comedian that did the you might be a redneck thing? Jeff Fox something or another?? We have two Eagle Mills in the District. One goes as far as having printed on the back of their troop ball-cap "Where Eagles Fly" The SM has 3EAGLES on his license plate. While there are many Troops that do offer an outstanding program. The national average for Scouts reaching the rank of Eagle Scout is a little under 5%. When you run into a troop that has 75% you have either ran into a very exceptional troop or something isn't right. Just about every Scout that I have ever met at an Eagle Scout BOR, has a different reason for having made reaching the rank of Eagle his goal. You might want to talk to the Scouts that are Eagle Scouts and ask them what made them want to make Eagle Scout a goal? You might want to ask how many MB'S each Scout earned last year at summer camp. Most Scouts don't get above 5, one of our mills had an average of eleven??? per boy. Eamonn.

Hi and Welcome. How about a relay race at the far end two sets of cards one with the inventors name and one set with the inventions. http://inventors.about.com/library/bl/bl1_1.htm This link might help, but there were a lot of people that I had never heard of!! You might want to pick out the better known ones. Or you could use a roll of wall paper and have the Scouts work on a time line with what came when. (On the back of the printed side) Eamonn

OJ is sixteen and will be seventeen in July. He has his permit to drive. He can't wait to take his test. Her That Must Be Obeyed and myself are the meanest, nastiest parents. We unlike many of his pals parents didn't buy him a car for his birthday. He was hoping I would give him my Explorer. Worse still we have said that we are not willing to pay the $1,000 it is going to take to insure him. He wants to drive real bad - So bad that he is going to work at summer camp. Something that he vowed he would never do. While we know that the day is going to come and we know that if we are going to believe in all the good stuff that he has got out of being a Scout, we have to trust him. We have to believe that he will obey the rules and be a courteous and kind driver. I love that kid so much that at times the idea of him coming to any harm hurts. He is a good Lad. I don't worry about drugs or alcohol. But him driving and showing off to his pals scares the beejeebers out of me. When the time comes and we know it will I only hope that Saint Christopher is putting in a lot of overtime. Eamonn.

I was talking on the phone to my old DE, I mentioned this. She reminded me that it is because of things like this and him doing things like this is the reason that he is no longer the District Commissioner. She said how he would do something dumb and she would sit him down and explain why it was dumb. He would act like he understood and then go and do exactly the same dumb thing. He really is a nice guy, his biggest failing is that he wants everyone to like him. It seems that he just doesn't understand that there is a difference between being liked and being respected. Pam (Ex-DE) feels that I really ought to go to the Scout Executive. I don't want too, but she feels we must safeguard the Council from any possibility of a multi-million law suit, which could happen years from now. We only have to look at what has happened in the Catholic Church to see the damage that could be done.I hear what she is saying and kinda know that she is right - But I'm going to sleep on it. Eamonn

Some years back if a unit had Required parental involvement, I would have had to say Thanks but No Thanks. I was busy working earning money to feed and clothe my family. Owning and operating two restaurants didn't leave me any free time, in fact I had my wife and my Mother-in-law helping me. So making parental involvement a requirement would in fact have prevented my son from joining. I would hope that we are doing everything that we can do to get every boy into Scouting. Making barriers and placing obstacles only take away from our mission. I wonder what would happen if we were to make unit involvement in the District Committee a requirement? At present our nominating committee selects the best person or people for the job. Like any other District we have our fair share of twits. Heck we could make all the twits unit commissioners - Boy that would be fun. The units that run merit badge factories and Eagle Mills, let's stick them on the Advancement committee. The units that never sell popcorn or allow FOS presentations, they go on the finance committee. The units that never attend anything or do anything they could be the Activities committee. If this sounds daffy it is no more daffy than not selecting the right person or people in a unit. Eamonn.

I can see that there may be times when all the good stuff that we have learned and taught about Youth Protection needs to be looked at in view of the situation at hand. Sometime back I got stuck taking a Scout home from a Camporee in my car by himself. Looking back it was a very dumb thing to do and it was a bad judgment call on my part. This past weekend I had to stop and pick up tables from the Scout Camp site near my home. It was a last minute thing, no one thought that we would need extra tables. OJ and I took off bright and early. About half way it dawned on me that if there was a unit in camp using the building that they might be using the tables. When we arrived at the site, we thought that we had better check in with the Campmaster. At the site there is a new (About 5 years old) Campmaster Building. We knock on the door and enter. Inside we find the guy who was our District Commissioner and about six kids. He is the only adult. They are eating breakfast, having very clearly spent the night. The guy already thinks that I hate his guts - Which isn't true. So I am left wondering what to do? I meet our new DE at Banquet where the tables were needed and explain to him what is going on. Later I ask if he has spoken to the guy? He tells me that he mentioned it to him and everything is OK, because it was his son and his sons pals. He also had permission to take these other kids. The DE is new,so I explain that this sort of thing should never be allowed in the BSA. This guy has presented YP training. He is aware of the rules. There was a Webelos Scout Den using the other building, they are from our District. What sort of example are we setting when we try and set ourselves up above the rules? At this time I'm unsure if I should take this to the Scout Exec. I will mention it to the Campmaster Committee. Eamonn.

Thanks in no small way to OJ and his involvement in the OA, I found myself doing a presentation on Scoutreach and the OA Scoutreach Mentoring program /Award. This has somehow got out of hand and now people are looking to me as if I know what I'm talking about. Bringing Scoutreach down to its very simplest term I see Scoutreach helping us the volunteers ensure that every Boy has the opportunity to be a Scout and the member of a Troop. A real Troop that does real Scouting, things like going camping, advancing all that good stuff. Once we are committed to the idea that we will offer every boy that opportunity everything else ought to fall in line. I am not saying that it will be easy, but once the commitment is made it is very doable. When I was prepping for the presentation I was going to do I asked a pal of mine who works in the National Office if he knew if National had any good handouts. He was at home with the flu. Scoutreach is not in his division and I really couldn't have picked a worse time. He did give me two names of two guys who work in or with Scoutreach. I contacted both. One was dealing with Native Americans. A very nice chap, but what he was doing was not a good fit for us here in Southwestern Pennsylvania. The other Chap was also very nice but he was working with Spanish speaking youth. Again not a very good fit for what and where I am. All three of these really nice guys said that maybe I ought to look at the Rural side of Scoutreach. I looked at the area in which I live and sure there are lots of big fields and a fair amount of family farms. I have to admit that I have yet to meet a rich farmer. Farmers sing the blues almost as good as restaurateurs. They have all their money tied up in the farm. I have talked with Lads who have been unable to attend some events because they have had to help out and work on the farm. Most of the farms in this area are dairy farms, so we don't have any migrant workers coming in to pick anything. Farmers are as a rule very frugal types, but the ones that I know in our area are very pro Scouting and pro values. During February I attended a lot of B&G banquets and I was a little surprised to see a few non-white faces. In fact the Pack that I used to be Cubmaster in, which is having a really hard time had two African American Cub Scouts. Membership in the pack is now way down so these two Lads make up 20% of the pack!!The Black population in our little town makes up only 1.1% I also seen a few black faces at the B&G in the next town. They have a 1.7% black population. This might not seem like a big deal but five years ago we had not a one!! Our Council covers two counties, the one I live in has a population of 369,993 of which 96.2% are white. The other county has a population of 148,644 of which 95% are listed as being white. Sad to say the Council Professionals do not seem to grasp the idea of giving every boy the opportunity to be a Scout. They want to go in and offer something that is a very nice activity and is a good turn but it isn't Scouting. In the next little town, they went in and started a Cub Scout Pack. They never got more than five boys. The guy they hired to go in and run the pack?? Failed to turn up most of the time and it failed. This Scoutreach Pack, was 440 yards from where the pack that has been there for ever meets!! Sure the Scoutreach pack met in a community hall that is part of a subsidized housing development and sure there was some sort of a partnership with HUD. I feel we could have gone in and recruited a Den Leader, paid for his or her uniform, paid for training and made a Scoutreach Den, which would be part of the pack. In time maybe with some financial help we could have these Lads cross over into the troop. Some Professionals are telling me that this isn't the way it works and that we need to have units in the housing developments where these kids live. I think this is bull, the kids attend the same schools as the other kids in the area. Sure there will be different and new problems when we reach out to these Lads. Maybe the Scouts we have now do everything that they can to avoid these kids, maybe a few parents will be upset that we are trying to bring Lads in that they have told their kids not to associate with? I like the idea of us reaching out and providing the opportunity of Scouting being there for everyone. While maybe there is a need on Indian Reservations or in places with large ethnic communities to alter or change the program? I'm not sure. I do think that we the volunteers can make this work and any interference by well meaning Professionals only gets in the way. Eamonn.

I think FScouter and Barry have covered my feelings about this and how to talk to the Lad. I thought that I had encountered just about everything that a SPL or PLC member could come up with but as ever I was wrong. At our peak we had 14 Patrols (We then divided the troop into two troops - Not my best idea!!) So cooking for 90 would have been an enormous chore. We did at times cook for the entire troop, but normally only when we were in cabins during the winter. Over Easter which was a long school holiday in the UK -3 weeks, we took the PLC away. It was part training, part planning the summer camp if we were staying in England (We would camp at the or near the summer camp site) During this camp we would take turns cooking the Leaders and the Scouts. We would also try out new ideas that the PL's could take back and use with their Patrols. In another thread it is asked if a Lad who has a special diet will fit into a Patrol. It is far easier to have the Patrol accommodate his needs than it is a troop. The other Patrol members also get to look at and learn how to cook different foods. Eamonn.

I have in the past had Patrols that were made up with boys from many different religions: Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jewish. The troop had Lads that were vegians. None of this is a big deal, unless the adults make a big deal of it. Patrols, plan their own menus and cook their own food. I in fact learned a lot about cooking vegetarian curry from patrols. I am a little puzzled why being a member of a pacifist religion, is even worth mentioning? We serve the Scouts that we have and deliver the program as best we can. Eamonn.

Looking over the threads listed today I don't see any that deal with Patrol size or tobacco. I know that smoking and tobacco use comes up a lot and the thread about Patrol size was several months ago. The Forum changes and has changed and will continue to change. There are have been periods of calm along with times when Threads have been closed and feelings have been hurt. The outcome from one of these episodes where things got out of hand was that OGE and Hops became moderates. I happen to think that they were a wise choice and that they do a good job. If you have looked at a couple of old threads and are judging the Forum by what went on then, you are making a big mistake. Hopefully we as Scouter's do dwell in a optimistic present and future and do not allow ourselves to dwell in a less than perfect past. We do this when we deal with our youth members. Sure Scouts make mistakes and at times make bad choices. We move on, looking for better days. My favorite is when people tell me that a unit always does or doesn't do something. This statement is normally based on something that happened eons ago, when the unit had different leaders and different youth members. Many years back when I restarted the troop that I had been in as a youth, the first few boys that joined were a group that had been and for a while continued to be in all sorts of trouble. At the time some of my friends teased me that I had a prison gang!! Over time these Lads settled down and while we always seemed to have a little more than our fair share of Lads who seemed to have a knack of getting caught doing dumb and stupid things, as the troop grew they didn't stick out as much. If someone were to have judged the troop in them early days, I feel sure the report would not have been that great. You are of course free to come and go as you like. If you go? I have no idea what turn the Forum will take. If you stay? You might be the guy that somehow, someway keeps the pot from at times boiling over. Eamonn

How about looking for a kind ear in your Troop Committee? Maybe a parent who will hear what you are saying and really listen. It's worth a try - But you may have to take pigeon steps to start. Eamonn.

Have you looked at: White Stag Leadership Development? http://www.whitestag.org/index.html Is this the sort of thing that you are looking for? Eamonn

I kinda think that I ought to spin off, but what the heck I started this so I will stay with it. OJ called his SM on Sunday to ask if he needed any help at a pack B&G. Both the pack and the troop share the same number and the same CO. It seems that the SPL was ill. I only heard one half of the conversation. What I heard went something like: "How many are we getting?" "But all them kids quit" What followed was OJ naming the Lads that had crossed over not last year but the year before and he was right they had all quit the troop. I happen to think that the program that is offered by the troop is not that good. Yet I don't see that National or the Council or the District can be blamed for this. I happen to think that the opportunity for age appropriate activities are there for the taking or at least there for the making. Sad to say that year after year the high point for the members of the troop that OJ is in is a week chasing merit badges at the same place. I do agree that we as an organization do need to take a long hard look at our marketing. I thought the Good Turn For America provided a wonderful opportunity for some great marketing, sad to say the only people who seem to know anything about it are our own members and even they are not that excited. I have heard the rumors about Council consolidation, but never from people who are on the job at either the National or Regional level. Only from people who have heard it from someone. I have even heard people spout numbers. I do know for a fact that at present we have 13 Councils in our Area. Two are looking at a merger. Not because they are being forced by anyone outside but because they want to look at it. They were to vote last week. I have yet to hear what happened. Many of our Councils are tiny. I visit camps that are open four and five weeks a year and have less then a 100 Campers a week. When Council mergers or consolidations is looked at the thing that everyone seems to get hot under the collar about is camp sites and OA Lodges. We sit on the edge of a very large metro Council. At this time we seem to be doing OK. Membership is holding its own and finances are not bad. The metro council has its Summer Camp in our Council. The programs they offer seem to be offer more youth appeal than the programs that our Council offers. I think if I were the SM I would be taking the PLC along to look at what they are doing. On the other side of us we have a Council that covers a very large mostly agricultural area. They are really having a very rough ride and are very close to only getting a provisional charter. Sure a couple of counties do look very appealing to us, but we would never want to merge with them because the area is just too large. Before I could say that Council-structure is archaic, I think I would want to see a new plan. I am new to this this Area Committee work,in fact I have only about six months in!! However already I see the Council merger that might or might not have already happened. By the end of the year I see one Council just not there any more (They are over $400k in debt) and within five years I expect two others to either merge, get chopped up or just not be there. So out of the 13 Councils that were there we could lose 4. This of course is just my suspicion, it is nothing that you could take to the bank - who knows someone might die and leave the Council that is in the red tons of money and the guys working in the other Councils could turn things around. Eamonn

With the greatest respect in the world I am afraid that I must disagree. Everywhere I look I see non-profit organizations selling off buildings and property that they can no longer afford to maintain. I attend the Area Committee meetings and see how so many Councils are really suffering due to financial hardship. Councils that are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Cut backs have to be made and small under used and under developed camp sites are prime targets. It is a catch 22 situation, we don't have the money to develop them and if we don't develop them no one is going to use them. We in our Council think we are doing well with our Summer Camp program. The camp is up and running for campers seven weeks a year, attracting about 1,500 campers a year. This year the cost of a week at camp is $170.00. Take away the cost of staffing the camp and feeding the campers, there isn't a lot left to play with. Being as the camp is up in the mountains we can't even get in to it from November till spring thaw. Still the 27 roofs need to be replaced every so many years. Still people are looking for more and more improvements, new buildings that will in time require more repairs and on going maintenance. The last new building ran thousands and thousands of dollars over budget. The equipment used for camp: The tents, the canoes, even the buildings and other equipment is never depreciated, that cost is never passed on to the camper. Camp trucks seem to have a very short life span, the new big John Deere Tractor seems to spend half the summer undergoing costly repairs.$255,000 for a year just isn't enough - But we find a way of making it work because it is important and 1,500 Scouts benefit from it. I don't have a crystal ball, so I have no way of knowing if maybe one day the Good Camp Fairy will donate the money needed to update our primitive camp? I do know that if she had $3-million on hand someone would try and talk her into building a new dining hall and kitchen at the summer camp site. If she doesn't come through with the money and we put the entire $170 from the 1,500 campers toward the new dining hall it will take a little over 11 years to pay for it -But by then there won't be any campers. Some choices are not easy but they are made because they have the best interests of the majority at heart.

In another thread about a camp closing it was said: "It's a dark day when money talks and the future experiences of many of our youth have to take a backseat" I agree whole heartedly that it is sad to see a camp, that people love and have over the years worked on and for. Money is a driving factor of our organization, money is a driving force of every non-profit organization. We have in our Council a large parcel of land that was donated to the Council back in the 1960's. It is very primitive. No flush toilets, no showers. A couple of wells that go dry when Districts stage events or have Camporees. One large building and a smaller one for the camp masters. Talk to Scouter's in our Council and they say that it is a great place!! But they never camp there. Cub Scout packs refuse to use it because there is no running water. Installing city water would cost almost half a million dollars. During the summer no one camps there, they are too busy. The rest of the year we are lucky to see two or three troops camping there. The SPL's who come to our R/T meetings state that they don't want to go there because in the past all the Camporees were there. The camp is located in a remote spot, ideal for underage drinking parties which end in damage to the camp. The electricity bill for the camp is over $3,000 a year. I don't know how much is spent on maintenance and repairs. I love the camp and think that it's a great place to do some "Real Scouting", however the numbers show that I must be in the minority. At this time there is no real plan to sell it off, but some people are looking at it and I feel sure that the day will come. When it does I will have to put my emotions aside and will vote to sell it. We can use the money we get and we save to serve the Scouts a lot better with the money. Eamonn

God Bless good old IRC section 179!!! Hey SemperParatus, Can I claim a deduction for Rory? He is providing or maybe will provide security? He is eating a heck of a lot and we started Puppy School today. $40.00 an hour. Heck I'm in the wrong business!! Eamonn He is still cheaper to keep than the big footed monster that lives in one of our bedrooms, playing that dreadful Country and Western sound seeping out!!

Hi and Welcome. Like my dear Friend Unc. I feel for you. It does prove that we have to do everything we can to not allow other camps go the same way. We can do this by supporting our Council. Using the camping facilities that we have and doing what we can with financial support. Eamonn.

As part of the old Boy Scout Course, the patrols did elect a "Permanent" Patrol Leader. I kinda think if we were to do that on the new course it might mean that one person was the best leader? The aim of the course is for each and every person to do their best and leave a legacy. The staff have always disappeared and left the participants on their own at the final cracker-barrel. It gives them a chance to share reflections of the course and the staff. Eamonn

wingnut, You may well be right, I think I depreciated our restaurant equipment over a longer time. We do a a board member who donates used copiers and the like, some are almost new, but being as he is donating them to the Council he can use the tax advantages. None of which exist when donating to a unit. Even if the stuff was brand spanking new. Eamonn.

I don't know of any company that has a policy of donating computers to youth groups. Very often what happens is that when a parent or some other friend of the pack works for a company that is up-grading their computers, they will donate them. Of course a pack not being a charity means there is no tax advantage to donating to a pack. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I'm a little unsure what you mean by a secret twist? This 21ST Century course is focused on leadership. Sure they kept a lot of the old traditions along with the critters. I don't know anything about the old Exploring Wood Badge. I took and staffed the Cub Scout Leader Trainer course. It covered training Cub Scout leaders. When you wrote your ticket each item started: Using the skill of Recognition (Or what ever skill you were covering) It really was a tough ticket to work. The Boy Scout Wood Badge really drove home the patrol method and covered the 11 Skills of Leadership which you were supposed to pass on to the SPL and members of the PLC. Some people are saying that the new course does little to teach outdoor skills and the patrol method. They are right. The course is not about outdoor skills or the patrol method. It is all about leadership. I wish there was some way of taking the mystery out of Wood Badge, without jeopardizing the course material or content. There really is no secret or no mystery. The course will be receiving a few tweaks in 2006. That is when our license to use the Ken Blanchard material runs out. Also some things have been moved around. The Diversity session that is now on day four is being moved to nearer the start as it is a ticket item. I was hoping that the Win All You Can game would be gone, but it seems that it is staying. The old Boy Scout course, was never a bad course, however over the years so many people added so much stuff to it that at times the add ons became bigger than the course. I remember some guff about a Scoutmasters Chair and it having to be where ever the Scoutmaster might decide to park his behind. People became so worried and so concerned about this darn chair that they weren't paying attention to the material. Another course I was on had the bright idea that all Staffers had to carry Scout Starves. Trying to carry a Scout stave, a flip chart and a flip chart holder across a camp site in the rain was a really miserable experience. I am glad to see the back of the old courses along with the Good Old Boys that were there each and every year. They hadn't seen a kid in 20 years and only ever seen a volunteer at a Wood Badge course. They loved the course so much they couldn't but help to keep adding more and more junk to it. Eamonn.

Thanks johndaigler. I agree with what you have posted 100%. I really like the term stewardship - Think I'm going to start using it. Eamonn