Eamonn

With no disrespect intended I think it's strange that we have a couple of Lads posting that they want to be given more responsibility and at the same time we are looking at what might be a good reason to remove a Patrol Leader. It's a strange world!! There is a scene in one of the Scoutmaster Specific Training videos, where the SPL goes to the SM after something hasn't worked out as well as it should. The pair of them reflect on why it didn't work. The SM is kind, good humored and very supportive. I love that part of the movie. In my travels around the District, even when I visit the better troops I see SM's doing lots of things, but rarely do I see them taking the time after a meeting to go over things with the SPL, rarely do I see them really supporting the Patrol Leaders. Every now and then I hear a SM say to a Scout "Did you ask your Patrol Leader?" Of course at times the reply to that is, "I did but he don't know!!" Training the Patrol Leaders is the job of the SM. Life would be so much easier if packing them all off to a JLTC or what ever the new one is called? And they came back like clones ready to be the worlds greatest Patrol Leaders. Or if we could just do the in house JLT and never have to worry about this training stuff again till the next batch comes along.But life isn't that easy. A little while back I was shocked when I heard that one of the better troops in the District was cutting a meeting out, they went from 4 meetings a month down to 3. When I met the SM he told me that he cut a meeting out so he could spent that new time working with the Patrol Leaders and hold a PLC meeting. I used to hold our PLC meetings on a Saturday afternoon, while there was a business meeting, this was a time to ensure that the PL's had the skills needed for the month, a time to try new and sometimes crazy ideas. But just as important it was My time. My time to really get to know these Lads (In a troop of 90 Scouts at times I never really got to know a Lad well until he became a PL) It was my time to make these Lads feel special.A round of soda pop or candy bars at the business meeting went a very long way.It was my time to listen to them and find out how things were really going. It took me a very long time to get this Patrol Method thing close to being right. I made every mistake that could be made, I thought for a while having these guys hear my program and return to their Patrols with the information was how it worked. I thought that having them fill in the blanks of my wonderful ideas was how it worked. I was so busy talking I never heard them. I was so busy doing stuff that they ought to be doing I never had time to support them or do the needed on the job training. I loved KS and the Milk Bone. I will use that. Sure I had Lads that were not the greatest leaders, I also had some of the brightest and best. I never in the 11 years I served as SM had reason to remove a Lad, I did have a few Lads that needed a very friendly kick in the pants. Most fell someplace between, but were so keen to do a good job and not let their Patrol down, that life wasn't that bad. I of course was younger then and really could be the Big Brother that BP spoke of. It has been a long time, maybe now I'm too old and contrary? Eamonn.

We /I was informed that Chile,was second. Eamonn.

Welcome. It sounds as if things are happening. When I was a young SM in the UK I was at times like a bull in a china shop. My old GSL (Group Scout Leader. - Kinda like a charter Rep) Would shake his head and say "Slowly, Slowly catchee monkey!" It seems that BP must have used this at one time? I think in English it means that Rome wasn't built in a day. Eamonn.

I at times have to stand in awe of Scouting. I think of all the kids world wide that Scouting has touched. The millions upon millions of hours that volunteers put into Scouting. Before getting married I spent a fair amount of time traveling a lot it because of and to do with Scouting, of course everyone thinks that their "Brand" of Scouting is the best in the world. My little sister has just taken a new job for an Australian Law firm, she will be a partner based in their Hong Kong office. OJ and little old me can't wait to pop over for a visit and see how Scouting in Hong Kong works. Here is my trivia question: We all know that Scouting started in England. Which country was next? Eamonn.

Lynda J I can't help thinking that this Lad learned more by working things out for himself than if he had been removed from office. Eamonn.

KS You and I are on the same page when it comes to the Methods of Scouting. There does need to be a balance and things need to be kept in perspective. During my term as a District Key 3 member, there have been times when adults just can't get along. Some misguided souls are looked to me to fire, dismiss or get rid of!! Someone that is the cause of the problem. I explain that I can't fire anyone at the unit level and back this up by saying something like "You need to go to the person that hired them, they are the only person who can fire them" Surely after a election the Lads have made their choice and the SM has to work with the people that he is given. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, which is one reason I'm not big on big books of rules. And there are nice ways of asking or telling a Lad that this isn't working out and maybe he needs to think about stepping down. Maybe I'm just a big marshmallow and I'm scared of the harm that could be done if this wasn't managed right. We ask everyone in this game to do their best,sure there are Lads that for some reason don't seem to have the skills needed, but if a Lad is doing his best, I sure as heck do not want to knock him down or harm him. At some point I suppose we need to look at the individual Scout and what we are doing for him, not anyone else just him. Then we have to look at the group or the Troop, this is where the balancing act comes in. Eamonn.

orennoah Later this year (A lot later!!) I will mark my half century on this planet. That is of course God willing. I have over the years done things that I'm not proud of and things that were not nice and wrong.The Big Fellow knows this and I believe that being that He is a very forgiving God, we move on. I believe that Scouts and Scouting can and does make a difference in the lives of all of us that are part of it. I don't believe that sticking someone in a Boy Scout uniform makes them an angel. We do hope that the people in our programs do over time become better people because they are part of our programs. People have very high expectations of Boy Scouts and of Scouting. We have for almost 100 years delivered the goods. I watch the TV news and everyday there seems to be shootings and murders, in some areas this seems to be common place. Twenty years ago this was the lead story now it's a byline after the lottery numbers. But let the shooter be a Boy Scout or worse an Eagle Scout and the story takes on a new life. I look at the volunteers that serve in the same District as I do and we seem to have a good representation of the people who live in the area. Our program is being delivered by normal everyday people, not some group of well meaning goody goodies. You are right to tell your Scouts that when they put on their Scout uniform that people do expect more of them. You are right to tell them that because they wear the uniform they should expect more from themselves. Still sometimes Scouting is like shucking oysters. When the oysters arrive they are dirty and muddy, some are starting to open. If you rinse them off and ice them down, they will close and be happy little oysters. Some refuse to close and die, some are "Mudders" When you open them there is nothing inside but mud and then every now and then you open one and the smell is so bad it knocks your socks off. This doesn't mean oysters are bad. A good plate of oysters rockefeller is wonderful. Eamonn.

Stop it your making me blush!! Eamonn.

I do not have a problem with spending money to get Scoutreach units started, even if this does mean that we have paid leaders. I don't have a problem with going into areas that might be viewed as undesirable. But please don't throw the tried, tested and true methods of Scouting out with the bath water. Lets set a goal of moving these units from being dependent on the District or Council to being a traditional unit. Lets give these Lads the opportunity to do what Scouts do: Camp, advance,have adults that care about them and the program. A craft once a month isn't Cub Scouting!! Dare I say it is just number building. A day camp in these areas is a real nice good turn and does help us get our toe in the door. But one Day Camp does not mean that we have a couple of hundred more Cub Scouts. Sure a lot of these units will fail and under the present requirements for quality district or quality council, this hurts. Wouldn't it set a great example if National refused to collect the membership fee from these units? Maybe if these units had a three year grace period before they counted in the membership totals for quality, we might see less of a rush to do something that isn't a good as it could be? But then what would Field Directors do all day? Eamonn.

You need to contact the person that you were to report to. I'm hearing that getting on the base is going to be hard. Our Area President is in charge of Action Center D, I met with him yesterday and he said to get onto the base for a meeting a week or so back he had to go through three different sets of security. They searched his car, then questioned him and finally let him into a building where he had to do a lot of paper work and form filling. Eamonn.

Footlockers. Most of the Lads in the Troop that is fortunate enough to have me as SM, already have footlockers. They trundle these beasts up to summer camp each year. I don't know if this is the case elsewhere? I have never served on the Jambo Staff, but I have been informed that the living quarters are crowded a duffel bag would fit better either under or on top of a cot. Most of the Lads that went with me in 2001 brought far more clothes and stuff than they really needed. The footlocker is nice. Even if it is just to throw everything in and is a mess inside!! Chances are that when the rain comes and it will come the stuff inside will stay dry. We are asking our guys to bring a small pack as we hope to break camp, load the truck and send it home the night before the last day. This will mean that we sleep under the dining flys and will need to pack sleeping bags, wash kits and the activity uniform in a bag for the trip home when we will want to look smart in our field uniforms. Of course we are not traveling very far and don't need to worry about airline regulations and that good stuff. Eamonn.

Proud Eagle Many thanks for the link. I have been wrong before. I have been following : http://www.oa-bsa.org/programs/ttr/ttrbasic.htm Which states: There are numerous possibilities for the job description of the OA Representative. The beauty is that it is flexible enough to allow your unit to fine-tune the exact responsibilities. However, the most basic tasks of the Representative will be to coordinate service opportunities within the unit, to coordinate unit involvement with the Order of the Arrow, including Unit Elections, Camp Promotions, and Inductions, and request lodge and chapter resources to help meet unit needs. Sad to say looking at the OA Troop Representative Duties: Serves as a communication link between the lodge or chapter and the troop. Encourages year round and resident camping in the troop. Encourages older Scout participation in high adventure programs. Encourages Scouts to actively participate in community service projects. Assists with leadership skills training in the troop. Encourages Arrowmen to assume leadership positions in the troop. Encourages Arrowmen in the troop to be active participants in the lodge and/or chapter activities and to seal their membership in the Order by becoming Brotherhood members. Sets a good example Enthusiastically wears the Scout uniform correctly. Lives by the Scout Oath, Scout Law and OA Obligation Shows Scout spirit I don't see this happening in our District. Not because the OA Rep. Is unable or unwilling, but because all this stuff is being done by someone else ( With the exception of:Sets a good example Enthusiastically wears the Scout uniform correctly. Lives by the Scout Oath, Scout Law and OA Obligation Shows Scout spirit) Communications from the Lodge are via E-mail and newsletter to all Lodge members. The SM's seem to be the guys doing all the camp promotions and high adventure promotions. In fact other than looking good on paper there really isn't a lot of meat on the bones!! The only work is "Assists with leadership skills training in the troop" Sure the Encourages to do this and do that are fine and dandy, and I can hear a Lad at a BOR tell me that he got so many other Lads from his Troop to seal their membership or take part in community service projects. But I wonder how he might answer "How did you do that?" There are some great answers that could be given, but I'm guessing the most common one will be "I told them about it". I really did think that having Troop Reps taking charge of the elections was a great and worth while thing. But I see that I'm going to have to give this a lot more thought. Again thanks for giving the little gray cells something to work on. Eamonn.

I see my mistake!! No if that were the case he would have needed 80 Pink Flamingos

I have since my surgery been working from home. There is no dress code, yesterday I wore a green sweat shirt with the Scout sign on it. It has collectors edition written on it. I'm not sure what that's all about. Today it was another sweat shirt, this one has what looks like a suede oval with the BSA silver letters. Rumor has it that tomorrow is going to be nice. I'm thinking of wearing a BSA Camp School golf shirt. I am not embarrassed. Saddened, but not embarrassed. I feel sad and sorry for this guys wife and family. I feel sad that he has let the side down. I was sad when all the all the bad things that were happening in my church became known, not just in this country but also in Ireland. I still hold my head up as being a Irish Roman Catholic. I am proud to be a member of the BSA. Sure I have over the years had my leg pulled and I feel sure that it will get pulled again. I have never tried to hide the fact that I am active in Scouting. Child pornography hurts kids and I have no time for it.Mr Smith has brought shame on himself not on me. I hope that he sees what he has done is wrong and asks the Big Fellow for forgiveness, if he is suffering from some sort of illness or addiction, I really hope that he gets the help that he needs. Eamonn. I have had nine E-mails and one person stop at the house since this story broke - Where are these people when I need a hand?

We could play on words for a very long time. If you are not allowed to cover the requirement with the Lad then he can't pass the requirement. You need to tell Mom that she can't have it both ways. You also need to let her know that she needs to rethink where she stands in the BSA. I fail to see how she can have such strong feelings on your talking to the Lad and yet, stand up and recite a promise or an oath that contains "Duty To God". Eamonn.

Hi, Looking at the requirements I see: And do one of these (d OR e): d: Earn the religious emblem of your faith e:Do two of these: >Attend the mosque, church, synagogue, temple, or other religious organization of your choice, talk with your religious leader about your beliefs. Tell your family and your Webelos den leader what you learned. >Discuss with your family and Webelos den leader how your religious beliefs fit in with the Scout Oath and Scout Law, and what character-building traits your religious beliefs have in common with the Scout Oath and Scout Law. >With your religious leader, discuss and make a plan to do two things you think will help you draw nearer to God. Do these things for a month. >For at least a month, pray or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family, and by your church, temple, mosque, synagogue, or religious group. >Under the direction of your religious leader, do an act of service for someone else. Talk about your service with your family and Webelos den leader. Tell them how it made you feel. >List at least two ways you believe you have lived according to your religious beliefs. The Lad hasn't earned his religious award. So that's out. He could if Mom allows discuss his religious beliefs with his Dad and the Den Leader. If he has any?? And he could pray or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family. Of course the real big problem is what to do with Mom? If she can't do her duty to God, then she has to go. Eamonn.

Fuzzy Bear does make some good points.I know that even if he can't walk on water, he more than lightly moved a lot faster than the crowd of Commissioners that I inherited!! Bob, I can't help but think that Commissioner Service is almost a thing of the past. At least as we know it now. I am starting to think that people like Fuzzy are a dying breed and unless something is done fairly quickly, there just will not be the man power that could deliver the service. Would this be sad and bad? I think so. Eamonn.

I think that people should spent their money how they see fit. Of course they need to take care of their bills and not spend money on anything which isn't legal. I have been known to waste the odd Pound or the odd Dollar myself. We however are in an Organization that does have Thrifty as a law. I am not a patch collector. At events such as the National Jamboree, I do carry a few of my home council patches and most of the time I just give them away. Sure if someone gives me a patch, I'll take it and say "Thank You". I know that it will end up in the box with all the others. Patches have now become a big business. A business that I am not sure is very Scout-like. Lodges are now manipulating a patch market. Our Lodge had a flap made for NOAC,they limited the supply. The guys attending NOAC got so many, the remainder were sold at $12.00 each. Two patch "Collectors" from the Lodge bought the entire amount that were not destroyed. Yes several hundred at $12.00 each. Now the Jambo is coming and the Lodge is coming up with a two part patch that will cover the entire pocket. This time some will have a gold boarder, these are supposed to be for participants and then there will be patches without the boarder for non-participants. This isn't patch trading it's making a phony market. The last time I ordered patches for a Camporee the order wasn't that big (200) and I paid less than $3.00 a patch. The Lodge orders by the thousand. They know that there are a couple of guys who will snap up each and every and especially the last patch, in order to drive the price way up. This can't be Scouting, it can't be what we want to teach our Scouts. OJ received his second Jamboree patch in the mail, the first thing he did was check on E-bay to see what they were selling for. After the OA banquet last month, a Lodge officer who is about sixteen informed me that he had spent $160.00 on patches!! If OJ spent $160.00 on patches I would take him someplace for a really good examination!! I can see how an old or rare patch might be worth something but the way we are using patches to make money is not good, the way we are allowing a few guys with big bucks to drive up the cost is disgraceful. Is this really teaching Scouts how to be thrifty? Eamonn.

A Pal of mine placed 40 of these pink birds on his front lawn on the day of his wives birthday. Last year I did well I ordered Her Who Must Be Obeyed a cake. I got the right day the 26th but was a month early. I wonder if these birds have brains?? Eamonn

When I got up this morning I found OJ in my chair at my computer. This is not a big deal, but he has his own computer and complains that mine is slow and doesn't have his stuff on it. He was writing a letter to all the SM's in the District, informing them that he and the Troop Elections Chairman, would be running all the elections. He was asking for meeting times and places. I happened to mention that I thought that Troop Reps. were to visit a near by troop and supervise the elections. He said that the Lodge wasn't doing that anymore because it didn't work. In fact he was getting a little upset, when I said that I thought that this was a big part of being a OA rep. I went on to say that my thinking was that now the OA rep is a POR, that it was wrong for the Lodge not to allow them to do their job!! I asked why the Lodge wasn't trying to train these reps in how to do the job right? He didn't have an answer. What do I say to the Lad who comes up for an Eagle Scout BOR and has OA representative listed as his POR? I honestly thought that these elections were a big part of what the job is all about. It isn't the fault of the Lad that the Lodge took his job away, but wearing a patch and doing next to nothing is not how we play the game. Worse still is now the Elections Team for the District is OJ who is AVC- Admin and one other Lad, this means that I have to drive him to all these meetings!! Then I will have to meet with every SM along with all the ASM's. These guys love to talk and there is only two episodes of West Wing left!! Eamonn.

KS Here I sat reading you post agreeing with you and then I got to the end. Unlike you I have never been in the military, where demotion might be acceptable. But to demote a Scout? How much damage can one Lad do in six months with the training and the support of the SM? Eamonn.

If these gaudy birds are worth the money and the Council approves the Fund Raising event. I see no reason not to go ahead. Eamonn

I don't have an up to date Webelos Scout Handbook at hand. It would be a big help if someone could post the AOL Requirements. Tommy is 11 Tommy is in the 5th Grade. Tommy quit in June or Maybe in August. My old book states: Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. So When was Tommy's birthday? There are however other requirements that he might not be able to meet. It states: With your Webelos den, visit at least one Boy Scout troop meeting, and one Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity. If the other Webelos Scouts in the Den are gone and he didn't do this with them he can't meet the requirement. Much I would love to see the Lad get his AOL, I think that he has missed this boat. In fact he can't come back to the Pack, he has aged out. Every effort ought to be made to get him into the best troop in the area and off to summer camp. Eamonn.

Torveaux, You posted: If you consider any sort of embarrassment or discomfort to be hazing, then you have never experienced it. I really hope that I'm not reading what you said right. I 100% believe that when someone goes out of their way to cause embarrassment or discomfort to someone else it is hazing. Which is not part of Scouting. Before joining the Troop that I spent most of my Scouting career in. I was a member of a Troop that had a very nasty initiation "Ceremony". Lads on the ground tied to tent pegs, with jam and food smeared all over them. Mostly in their underwear, but at times things got out of hand and the poor Lad was naked. Of course no one ever instructed these bullies to do this, but at that time no one told anyone not too. The really sad thing is that this ceremony didn't happen very often, in fact I know of it only happening four or five times. As with a lot of things in Scouting the story took on a life of it's own and grew and grew. Soon the young Lads from the pack refused to go to camp, some wouldn't even join the troop. I was very fortunate to have a brother who was four years older than myself in the troop, so I was never "Staked Out". When I became a Leader I vowed that this sort of thing would never happen in my troop. A couple of years back I went up to our Summer Camp, OJ was in camp with his troop. It wasn't a parents night but I for some reason was up there. I went to the site where OJ camping and found a little Lad tied up and being carried to the shower house. I immediately made them untie the Lad and let him go. I went to the ASM in charge (The SM had to return home his wife was having chemo-therapy). He explained that the Lad hadn't taken a shower all week and the other boys were "Helping him!!" I knew the Lad who had been tied up, he had been a Tiger Cub the year I left the pack. When I asked him about it? He said that he was fine and was enjoying it!! However when I explained the harm that this could do to the troop, if other Cub Scouts found out that the "Big Kids" were tying little Lads up, both him and the ASM seen my point. I really hope so this Lad is a Patrol Leader in our Jamboree Troop. Scouting can offer so many opportunities for real fun and real adventure we don't need this type of stuff. Eamonn.

Beav Have you ever studied the dietary habits of the Beaver? Before I would use the words Beaver and Drool in the same paragraph I would take a look at the poor Beaver, the diet is so bad that they need to use a special enzyme to break down the cellulose, sad thing is that this enzyme is behind the tail. While Bears are not noted for their table manners and it has been said that if you are not a Bear your a meal, I don't think even a very hungry Bear is going near a Beaver. Of course being a Beaver sure beats being a Bobwhite - Anything beats being a Bobwhite. Heck even being a Cook coo beats being a Bobwhite. Even the lowly Buffalo beats being a Bobwhite. Ravens are nearly as bad as Bobwhites, but even Ravens guard the Tower Of London. What do you do with a Bobwhite? Pluck it, cook it and wonder was it worth the trouble? (Hey Bob, I'm only teasing!!) Eamonn