Eamonn

In the case of a Cub Scout or Boy Scout the wishes of the parent should be followed. I happen to think that a young Cub Scout is more lightly to obey the wishes of his parents than say a 16 or 17 year old who thinks that he knows everything. I am bot up to speed on the National Standards for Resident Cub Scout Camps. I do know that our Council used to require one adult leader for every four Cub Scouts and this went to one for every five. Medical Forms will do little to prevent things from happening, they do expedite treatment and give a ER Doctor an idea of what he or she is facing if a child or an adult is brought in. Eamonn.

OGE As you know I am not for mandatory training. If someone wants to spin off that's fine. I wish we could do more to get more of our COR's to do what they should or could be doing. If we were to allow Scouting Groups, by that I mean we go all out for the seamless program and allow the pack, troop and crew to all be on one charter and then make the COR more of a Group Leader, a uniformed position with almost the same responsibilities as the COR has now, but with the idea that he /she would meet regularly with the Committee Chairs, the Unit Commissioners and attend the District Committee meeting. Life would be grand!! While we are at it we might want to try and get the idea of stewardship. Sure things might be fine now, but we are only passing through and we want our packs, troops and crews to remain strong long after we have gone. What's that they say about Fishes and Wishes? Eamonn.

Hunt posted: what earthly harm can there be in reiterating that in a troop guidebook that is given to the parents so they'll also have a clear understanding of what behavior is expected? The behavior expectation is covered by the Scout Oath and Law. One big problem with Rules is that they normally carry a consequence for not keeping them. This does not allow the Leader to do his job. I have never ever and hope I never ever become the Rule Enforcer. I always seen my role as the guide. Sure there are times when a Lad might do something that is wrong. A few years back we were camping in Ireland (The Troop was from England) A couple of Lads came back to camp and we found out that they had been shop lifting. The stores were unaware that they had been robbed. Sending these Lads home was not a safe option and having parents pick them up wouldn't have worked. We had the Lads who had done the shop lifting go back to the stores and return the stolen goods. We asked if the stores wanted to press charges. None did. The offenders were not allowed to join the rest of the Troop members on dat trips or use the canoes. Their parents were contacted and when we arrived back home in England the Troop Committee was informed. The Boys were given a very stern talking too and were asked to write to the stores with a letter of apology. I thought they got off light, but my thoughts were my own. The Committee had dealt with the problem as they saw fit. One Lad did quit Scouting a year or so later and became active in the Rastafarian religion, I'm not sure how religious he was but he did his fair share of Ganja !! Which if it really is the "wisdom weed" he is wise beyond his years. He would meet me on the street and we would talk, he was always a nice Lad. The other Lad stayed in the Troop, went on into the Venture unit and is now a lawyer. Eamonn.

The TV was on when CBS broke into programming with the news that there was smoke coming from the stove pipe in the Sistine Chapel. Minutes past and no one seemed sure if the smoke was black or white. We waited for the bells, then we weren't sure if they were the right bells or just the bells that ring everyday at 6:00 PM? Strange that in this high tech information age we were waiting for smoke signals and bells to ring. Please, don't take what follows seriously!! It's just the thoughts of a displaced or misplaced English/Irish man. I never knew that the word Conclave had anything to do with locks. In fact if you would have asked me a few days ago I would have said it had more to do with American Indians, than anything else. So you do learn something new everyday!! In Scouting we have only ever had one Chief Scout of the World, Baden Powell. I wonder what would have happened if we had kept it going? Would it have been a lifetime appointment? If a World Chief Scout would have made any difference? I have no idea how the representatives of each country would be selected, but can imagine these world leaders making their way to Gilwell Park and electing the new World Chief Scout. We could keep the smoke signals, but maybe use pancakes. If the smoke is black and smells like burnt pancakes we would have to have another vote, but if a pancake is tossed high in the air we would have a Chief. As for the bells? Maybe these could be replaced with a Scout choir singing "On My Honor" Eamonn.

Let us pray for our Sovereign Pontiff Benedict XVI. The Lord preserve him and give him life, and make him blessed upon the earth, and deliver him not up to the will of his enemies. Amen. www.NewAdvent.org Eamonn

Baden Powell was very careful when he wrote the Scout Law not to make it a list of "Do Not's" He crafted the list of things that a Lad could do. Everything is positive. A Scout is .... I have some where what BP said about the Scout Law and why he wrote it the way he did. When I find it I will post it!! I think it is a shame that we have something that can, does and has worked for nearly 100 years in so many countries can be overlooked or not followed by well meaning rule writers. I of course am in agreement with KoreaScouter,FScouter, and Bob White. Prairie_Scouter We as leaders are charged with the health, safety and welfare of the Lads placed in our care. So while we set the example of living the Scout Oath and Law and hopefully making Scouting ideals the cornerstone of the program we deliver to our youth members. However we do have to deal with matters of liability and in some instances the law of the State or the Land. As for the paper work? It does seem the more we try to simplify it the more there is. meamemg One problem with a book of rules is that if they are to be of any use they must be followed to the letter. If they are not followed why bother having them? Take bad language. While we more than lightly agree that the F word is top of the list and is bad. What about Bloody? In England this is used as a mild swear word. I get upset when people use the Lords name i the wrong way. My Mother when she was upset with me would use "Holy Mother Of God" or "Jesus, Mary and Joesph" She said this when she was upset or mad is this swearing? Or was this a prayer? A friend of mine used to use the four letter S word a lot, she stopped and replaced it with the word Sugar. So when something went wrong she would say "Oh Sugar!!" The intent and the meaning was the same as when she said the other word. I have been known to turn the air blue when I'm upset. Let's say I hit my thumb with a hammer, I might let loose with the F word several times. Is the rule how many times you say the word? I have had young Scouts who thought it was cool to use bad language. I have taken a Lad like this to one side and explained that this is un-Scout-like behaviour and shows a lack of respect for those around him. I have had Scouts that are upset maybe they have done the thumb and the hammer thing? In these cases I tend to deal with the thumb and overlook the bad language. Something I couldn't do if the rule book was to be followed to the letter. A few weeks back SemperParatus posted a song which was based on a song from Les Miserables.I have the CD in my car, my son thought it was strange that I had a song that went: I used to dream That I would meet a prince But God Almighty, Have you seen what's happened since? `Master of the house?' Isn't worth me spit! `Comforter, philosopher' - and lifelong **** ! Cunning little brain Regular Voltaire Thinks he's quite a lover But there's not much there What a cruel trick of nature Landed me with such a louse God knows how I've lasted Living with this bastard in the house. Les Miserables has been seen by tens of thousands of people and I have yet to hear of too many being upset by this bad language. My point is that without the rule book we can deal with each individual as an individual and each situation on its merits. The music thing was very interesting. OJ (My Son) and yours truly had a long conversation about his music and my music. At that time he was into a lot of rap, which I didn't like and didn't understand and still don't!! I was upset about the bad language, which was two faced of me. I do own, listen and like some songs that do include bad language. I then said that I didn't like the way his music put down women and was disrespectful of policemen and the law, in fact it seemed to put down everything. I had in the past found some of this stuff on his laptop and using my parental power!! Deleted it. Our conversation went a long way in allowing him to make the ethical and moral choice. My deleting it without his permission didn't do much but upset him and build barriers between us. I love him way too much to want anything to come between us. I still don't like rap, but he is into Country and Western now!! I keep hearing that "She loves my tractor" The Black Eyed Peas were a lot better. Eamonn.

In the other thread it was said: You seem to not have any written rules. Bob White, said: There are two rules you need for a troop. 1. Adults will follow the program, policies, and procedures of the BSA. 2. Scouts will behave according the Oath and Law of the BSA program. Bob did an outstanding job of saying what I wanted to say. In fact he did a better job than I would have done. There is a difference between information and rules and bylaws. The where and when of Troop meetings is not a rule or a bylaw. My hope for the Lads that join Scouting is that we the adults will help the BSA in meeting the mission of the BSA: The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. While Obedient is a Scout Law, we want people that will make choices, not just follow the bylaw. Each and every Scout Law states that a Scout is. We as adults have to believe this and allow our scouts to be: Trustworthy Loyal Helpful Friendly Courteous Kind Obedient Cheerful Thrifty Brave Clean Reverent They do this because they have on their honor said that they will. The list is a comprehensive one, so comprehensive that I fail to see any situation that isn't covered. Many people seem to make rules about uniform. Uniform is a method of Scouting and it should be a goal for each and every Troop. Having or owning a uniform is not a requirement for membership in the BSA. I was asked "would you also start a business without a business plan? As the owner of what in the end turned out to be a very successful business. I did have several business plans in order to get them I worked very closely with several professional people. My Accountant was a big help, my lawyer was wonderful, my local bank was a big help, the local Civic and Industrial Association were a big help, local purveyors were very useful, other people who owned businesses like the one I wanted to start were very helpful. We are so lucky in Scouting that the BSA has done the leg work for us. Eamonn.

The information on a medical form is there for the protection of both the camp and the camper. The campers Doctor has signed the form saying that the camper is fit to be at camp or may have some special needs or restrictions. If the camp is being run to BSA Standards, the person in charge of checking these forms is in some way qualified to do so. Sharing this information with people who are not qualified, without the permission of the camper is just wrong. The camper does assume the responsibility of following the limitations that are placed upon him by his Doctor. Parents being concerned about the welfare of their child is not only natural but something the camp staff should understand and be thankful for. While the camp may well have followed methods and ways that are trusted and true, the parent may not understand this and there is no such thing as having every base covered when you are dealing with children. The camp is there for the camper. The camper is the customer and the goal of the camp staff has to be to meet or exceed the needs and expectations of the customer. Without these campers and their parents there would be no camp. Eamonn

There comes a time when common sense must kick in. Even the National Jamboree is not allowing visitors in until Wednesday and there are times when visitors have to off the Jamboree site. If people want to fully participate in all the programs they can make themselves known to the unit nominating committee, fill out the necessary paperwork, hopefully buy the needed equipment (A full Scout Uniform??) get trained and as long as they meet the requirements for any activity, participate to their hearts content. In fact most units I know would welcome them with open arms. Eamonn.

Contextualism ?? This is a new one on me!! But I only learned English in England!! The program is the program of the BSA, we as adults deliver the program to our youth members. Our role is to serve the needs of each and every Scout. All the examples that you have given go against the policies of the BSA and have no place in Scouting. They add requirements to advancement or are just plain wrong. t487scouter I am saddened to see the use of: my troop , my bylaws and "In fact my bylaws state that in addition to camping, a scout may only have 5 blue cards out at a time. If they have 5, they must finish one before I will issued another." The Troop is not yours.It belongs to the CO and the program belongs to the BSA. While I have never seen the need for bylaws, if these needless unworkable rules must be they should come from the PLC. As for the blue card ruling you are in violation of the BSA Advancement policy. Eamonn.

my3sons1295 Asked Gave out what information? nldscout had stated: National only allows the 8 current names to be used. If you want to use another name it would take approval from national. While the Course and its content does come from National the:syllabus, staff guide. The administration is done at the Regional level as part of the Program group. These guys and the Associate Regional Director - Program are the people who manage how the course is delivered at the local level. They give the green light for a course and can allow a Course to go ahead with the extra patrols or in special circumstances allow a course to go forward with less than the required number of participants. They also assign the course number. Each Area Committee has a Wood Badge Coordinator who works closely with the Regional guys and the Council Wood Badge Coordinator, who works with the Council Training Chairman (In some Councils the Council Training Chair is also the Wood Badge Coordinator.) Who works with the District Training Chair. National has nothing to do with the delivery of the course. The Course Director does have to submit reports after the course and these go to the Regional Wood Badge coordinator. For my sins I have been a: Council Wood Badge Coordinator, Council Training Chair. Wood Badge Course Director (NE-IV-153) And do sit on the Area Committee. At no time other than the "Guest Appearances" of the people from the National office, who were from the Boy Scout Program Division along with a couple of people who had worked on putting the then new course together have National had any say about how the course is managed or delivered. When we had deposits paid for a ninth patrol we did have to ask for permission from the Region to go ahead. But again there was no direction as to what to call a ninth Patrol. In the grand scheme of things the Patrol names really are of little importance. Eamonn.

Marge, Why do I feel that your intent of this entire posting was to say: "What I have learned is anything goes as far as religion, who cares who worships what even if it is the devil himself. I guess someone should consider designing a religious emblem for him too! Would you reconsider the reacceptance of those who are homosexual if they made their beliefs a religion? I venture to say no, what a shame. This is a comparison to consider" I think that there is no Scout practicing Witchcraft and you made up the entire thing. For the record I feel sure that if you were to ask any sane person in Scouting if we condone Satanic worship, the dark arts, black magic the answer would be that we do not. While there may be a few young people who have looked into this stuff, I have yet to meet any Scout in all the years that I have been around that takes it seriously enough to be considered a member of that religion. I don't think any chartering organization that would allow a die hard Devil worshiper in and I know for a fact that we would never allow an organization that held these beliefs start a unit in the District in which I serve. When I read your original posting in this thread to my 16 year old son, he was kind enough to inquire about your mental health. Eamonn.

I can't help feeling that the information on my medical form is mine. Mine to share or mine not to share. Sure I'm OK with the medical check in. However if this information is going to be shared with other people I do think that I should be asked before it is shared and my wishes should be followed. Eamonn.

Many years back I was a service team member at Walton Firs Camp Site, which at that time was owned and operated by the Scout Association of the UK. The person in charge of the the camp The Camp Warden, was a small fellow, Bill Cook. Bill, was a nice man ex Royal Navy submarine signals Officer and ex-civil service. The camp is small and used mostly by Troops for weekend camping. We had our Troop meetings on Friday nights and would once a month leave after the Troop meeting, sometimes with a couple of Patrols and sometimes just as 8 -10 young adults. If this was the case we might make a stop on the way and not arrive till late. Once there we unloaded the vans and got down to the serious business of playing whist. The games could go on till the early hours of the morning. But we knew come 7:00 am, Bill would be there making sure we were out of our sleeping bags and telling us what needed done. Bill over the years had suffered a lot of practical jokes at our /my hands. But he took it all in his stride. On the outside people who didn't know him might think he was harsh and very military. I knew him well and we were the closest of friends. One Saturday at 7:00 Bill arrived I was cooking breakfast and had the tea made, he joined me in the kitchen. For some reason he never called me Eamonn unless he was talking about me to other people, he always called me by my last name. which reminded me of my School days, I think he did this because I had gone up to the camp a lot as a Scout, Bill was outstanding at pioneering and the camp had the best pioneering store /equipment of any of the National camp sites. This Saturday he stood with mug of tea in hand and informed me that "They are saying black masses in the chapel!!" We were proud of our little Chapel, a clearing in the fir tress, surrounded by wild rhododendron's, the local BSA Troop based at the American School in Cobham had come in and redone the fencing around the chapel and on a tree placed a very nice simple vanished wooden cross. After breakfast a couple of us went to the chapel and the cross was hanging upside down. Bill had said that it was and this was a sure sign that the local yobos were practicing Satanic Rites in our chapel, he had added that he was worried about the welfare of Boots the camp cat. Boots was the size of a small horse and each day laid dead rabbits and rats on Bills doorstep trophies from last nights hunt. When we looked at the cross the brass picture hanger that had been used to fix the cross to the tree had rusted and the cross being heavier at the top had fallen, the hanger at the bottom was in good shape and was holding all the weight of the upside down cross. We used a galvanized hanger to place the cross in the correct position and that as far as I know was the last that was ever heard about Black Masses being said at Walton Firs. Eamonn.

Two weeks ago we woke up to find that we had four inches of snow in our back yard. Rory the seven pound bundle of fur that Her Who Must Be Obeyed bought me for Christmas, telling me that it really was a Golden Retriever, has grown. He still isn't very golden, more of a beige color with a yellow line of fur down his back. He was seven pounds when he arrived and he now is over fifty pounds. He and I have been busy, we both attended Puppy School and we both graduated. He was top of the class, no real accomplishment as he was the only one in the class. We go for our daily walks and spend about twenty minutes going over the stuff we learned at Puppy School. We rarely if ever miss a day. He loved the snow. He would roll in it, bury his nose in it and just have the best time. A couple of weeks back I was excited to see the first little yellow flower come out of the ground. I'm glad I got to see it as son after Rory ate it. Spring is really here. The trees are starting to get leaves, dandelions are everywhere and Rory has a full time job chasing the Robins. So far he has yet to catch one but that doesn't seem to make him stop. OJ, got the tractor out today and mowed the yard. Last week we gathered all the branches that had fallen over the winter and we burnt them. He thought it was a shame to waste the good embers so he cooked supper. Not everyday we have a foil pack at home. The Antique Farm Association that is next door gave a demonstration of plowing today, using horses. Rory wasn't sure what to make of this big fellows so he stood on the deck and barked at them. They took no notice. While these guys were busy doing their thing. The Civil War reenacting was going on in the front field. Rory didn't like the noise so we went in and watched This Old House. So much for him being a gun dog. After the plowing was done and the War was over and everyone had gone home for their tea. We went for our long walk. Fresh mowed grass was new to him. He ate a fair amount of it. Mowing brings the birds out, we have a lot of birds, I keep meaning to buy a bird book so I can identify the ones I don't know. Rory doesn't discriminate he chases all of them just the same. Today he found two dead birds, I don't know if they were casualties of the Civil War? Or how they came to be dead, but trying to get a dead bird out of his mouth is not very pleasant, still last week it was a dead rat. Rory looks so hurt when I remove these prizes from him. I feel a little mean, but a dead anything coated in Rory spit is just yuck. I think he misses the snow, but chasing Robins and all these new smells isn't all bad. Eamonn.

The G2SS States: A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility. Rememberknives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft. References: Boy Scout Handbook. In nearly all the references I found in the Scout Handbook the term pocketknife is used. Some properties owned or managed by Scout Councils (Camps and camp grounds) have their own rules as to what is and what isn't acceptable. Eamonn. Most Troops do have a larger cooks knife in the patrol cook box. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

All the dealings I had when directing a course were done at the regional level. While attending the Course Directors Conference, some of the people from the National Office did make an appearance, one topic was off the wall patrol names, the impression they gave was that no one really cared what critters was used and the only draw back would be that National supply wouldn't be able to supply some items that might be needed. I would love to know who gave out this information? Eamonn.

Sometime back in these forums we discussed if Scouter's get the Troops they deserve? The Patrol method only works if adults work at making it work. Advancement if managed correctly is a wonderful tool. Personal growth does mean that every now and then a Scout has to hear "Well Done" The adults do at times have to stoop down to help pick a Lad up. The outdoor program should cover skills learned in the meeting room. The ideals of Scouting are based on the Scout Oath and Law. Each Law states that a Scout is. We have to let him bring it to life. If we are not keeping the promise made on page one of the Scout Handbook, we are doing something wrong. If each and every meeting was the best show in town I think that the Scouts would move heaven and earth to be at the meetings. If the program challenged each Scout and was fun and adventurous there wouldn't be any "Ghost Scouts" You have identified the problems now is the time to go about fixing them. Eamonn.

These stoves can be useful, however the G2SS states: Chemical Fuels Knowledgeable adult supervision must be provided when Scouts are involved in the storage of chemical fuels, the handling of chemical fuels in the filling of stoves or lanterns, or the lighting of chemical fuels. The use of liquid fuels for starting any type of fire is prohibited. Eamonn.

As I posted I'm not a great fan of the Win all you can game - The Game of Life. While we do try and make the point that the Patrol is the all important team in Scouting there are times on the Wood Badge course when things do go to far and get out of hand. A few years back I was the Troop Guide for a Beaver Patrol, these guys were good, they had a strong Scouting back ground and seemed to be first and win just about everything. They were also very competitive. None of this is bad, but they started wanting to put articles in the Gilwell Gazette which served no purpose but to put the other Patrols down. This of course was not acceptable. I tried really hard to explain this to them and I think I got the message across to about half of them, the other half just didn't seem to have any idea what I was talking about. One thing that I don't understand is how we can attend Wood Badge and come back being so proud of belonging to a Patrol, years and years after we make a point of saying I used to be a whatever and a proud ... But we don't seem to pass on this Patrol pride to the Scouts in our troops. Can you just imagine how great our Patrols and Troops would be if Patrol members had this much pride in belonging to their Patrol? Eamonn.

I landed myself in hot water in these forums a couple of years back for poking fum at Druids. So I am not going to go down that path again. My knowledge of Witchcraft is not that great. From what I hear it is nothing like the old Hammer movies. While there were reports a year or so back about some youths in the UK killing cats and holding something that might be called Black Masses, it had more to do with vandalism than religion. While some of these religions may not sit well with some of us, they are never the less religions a lot of them seem to have a lot to do with the wonder of nature and very little if anything to do with the dark arts. Come to think of it other than some really bad movies I don't know what the dark arts are? Eamonn.

Where in England did you take the Course? I took the Scout course in 1971 at Gilwell Park and was a member of the Cook coo Patrol!! I did notice the other day that Canada had a Cook coo Patrol, maybe I'll have to move there. While we tend to use the same 8 patrol names in the US, I don't think there is any hard and fast rule that says you have too. I have heard of large courses with nine patrols using Raven. I think there is another country that does use porcupine? Something tells me it is Korea, but I might be wrong. Eamonn.

It's your Wood Badge, you can pick the where and the when along with the who. However maybe a regular pack meeting is not the best time. How about the pack picnic or at a pack camp out? Eamonn.

My heart goes out to this little Lad. I strongly believe that we should do everything that we can to keep each and every Lad in our programs, girls too in Venturering. However we are not trained to manage Children who have needs that we can't meet. Maybe the time has come for a meeting with the Den Leader and this Lads mother to see what can be done be done. I don't know all the options but maybe he could take his medication at a different time? Maybe his school teacher could attend a couple of Den meetings and give a few hints to the leaders? Sad to say maybe asking the boy to look for a pack with leaders that are better qualified might also have to be an option. Eamonn.

As the Father of the Scout who must hold the world record for being Life Scout, the longest!! If OJ ever decides to do what is needed to complete his Eagle the decision will be his. At present he has his driving permit and is talking about taking his test. I will help and support him reach any goal he sets. I'm not going to give him a car. I'm not going to make a call and set up a project for him. The goals have to be his. Him not passing his test a couple of times isn't going to be the end of the world. If he never makes Eagle Scout will not take anything away from the things he has done the friends he has made and the lessons he has learned. Yes sure Her That Must Be Obeyed will remind him that his uncle is an Eagle Scout and I will remind him that I made it to Queens Scout, but that might be the price he pays for not making it!! Unfair? Maybe. Unkind? Slightly. But life isn't always kind or fair. Eamonn.