Eamonn

Don't worry about talking funny. I think all Americans talk funny (I'm now ducking under my desk!) As cities go Philadelphia has more than its fair share of problems, but is a great place to visit, not sure that I'd want to live there. Some years back myself and HWMBO visited, I forget where we were going but we got lost. As I tried to work out where we were, I noticed that we were standing outside of a club/bar called The Black Banana. Today many years later I still contend that when the only landmark around is a place called the Black Banana, -You really are lost! Hope you all had a great time. Shame it's a flying visit, I like Lancaster county and have a great admiration for the Amish and how they have held fast to their way of life. PA has been home for me for the past 27 years. The people are some of the nicest and kindest that I've had met. Maybe you can find a Shoo-Fly Pie and take it back home as a dessert to eat after all that chili? Ea.

KC9DDI Any discussion about the pros and cons of tourniquets could go on for some little while. My feeling is that there is a time and place for them. I'm really not sure if trying to teach and instruct the correct methods of application and use of them in what is a very basic first aid course is such a good idea? My big problem doesn't lie with how useful or how harmful tourniquets might or might not be. My problem is trying to cover all the material in 3 hours. In the student workbook tourniquets get a two line mention and in the power point presentation tourniquets appear as part of one slide. Dumbed down is not a term that I'd like to use when it comes to First Aid, maybe the correct term might be User Friendly? The basic First Aid course presentation has gone to great lengths to make administering and performing first aid as easy, simple and user friendly as possible. Tourniquets don't fall under the heading of being easy or user friendly. While I might be wrong! A lot of the changes over the past few years have been aimed at trying to ensure that the average person feels that they have enough knowledge and know how so as to be able to help when needed without feeling that because they aren't qualified enough. Which has at times led good people to do nothing. While maybe it is food for another thread? I think that it's also important that instructors are aware of who they are instructing. The good person who signs up to take a First Aid class because he or she feels that it is for whatever reason important. Is very different from the person who has no real interest in First Aid, but has to sit through the training every year because he or she is mandated by the employer to do so. While of course the material remains the same and the instructor should put the same amount of effort and professionalism into each and every presentation, the interest of the participants will vary greatly. Like it or not this interest does play a part in the learning of the participants. Rightly or wrongly? My feeling is that just about anyone can grab a pad and apply direct pressure to a wound, but when we start making it more complicated we give them a reason tho question their ability and they could end up doing nothing. Ea.

I think I'm still going to pass. I already have my own luggage labels. If the ring-tone were "Little Cabin In The Wood"? Maybe.. But maybe not? Ea

So far this group has managed to miss me!! I'm not sure what is meant by: " Enjoy the member benefits and support the good work that the BSA continues in its second century." What benefits? I'm also far more lightly to support Scouting in the area where I live than support the good work that the BSA might do. Even though I've not been asked or invited, I think I'll pass. Eamonn

OK, so maybe I think that any Scout who is a Star Scout and almost a Life Scout in only 42 weeks? A little strange. But what I might think really doesn't matter. Fact is that he either met the requirements or he didn't. If it turns out that he really didn't meet the requirements and the requirements were signed off? Then the person or people who did the signing are at fault and this is something that the Troop Committee might want to take a look at. While of course I don't know and have no way of knowing. Could it be that because of his illness people thought that they were being kind by allowing him to skirt the requirements? And now that the family is moving, this kindness will come to light and the risk of being found out is now very real. What to do? If he has indeed met he requirements, then there is nothing that needs doing. Just wish him luck and send him on his way. If for whatever reason, no matter what the intention he hasn't met the requirements and they have been signed off. I think that it's time to come clean. Explain to his parents what has happened and why it has happened. Also informing his new SM of what has happened, seems to me to be the right thing to do. While in my view you can't take away what has been signed off, it does allow the new SM the chance to offer him the opportunity to go over what was signed off, maybe not "Redo" but more of a "Refresh". Adults who sign off on requirements that haven't been met are not only not living up to the oath and law, they are guilty of cheating and short changing the Scouts. Even if at the time their intentions were good. Eamonn.

LeCastor Good Luck with the course. I hope that all goes well and you have a great time and take some new ideas and skills back home with you. I've been involved with adult leader training for some time. I've staffed a number of WB courses and other training's. The hard truth is that no training is going to change the world. Most Troops, packs, crews, ships have a way that they go about doing things and just because someone has attended a training, very rarely changes that. I've lost count of the number of times that I've heard: "We don't do it that way." I used to let this get to me. My thinking being that I was of course right and anyone and everyone who didn't agree with me was just wrong. Maybe because I've gotten older? Maybe I'm not just as mule headed as I used to be? But today I'm happy to go with what works for you. Of course a lot of participants return to their units on a training high. But soon after things go back to the way that they were. Even as SM changing the way the Troop has done things in the past can be an up hill battle. Troops that have always gone Car Camping may not have the equipment needed to change. We have Troops in the area where I live that always have had a group of adults cook all the meals and fed the Scouts that way. I really dislike the cold and while I have camped in the winter, I try and avoid it as much as I can. This effects the winter program the Troops I was involved with. You will grow into the sort of Leader /SM you want to be. Wood Badge or any of the trainings you take might plant some new ideas or open your eyes to doing things in a different way. But at the end of the day you will go with what you want to go with. Wood Badge isn't a bad course. What you take home from it will depend on you. You will pick up and learn as much from the other participants and the staff as you do from the course. - That's why each and every course is different. At the end of the course you will have the opportunity to evaluate the course. If you offer a true and honest evaluation you will have done your bit to help change and maybe improve the course. No one can tell you what your going to get out of the course. In fact sometimes it can take some little time for you to work out what you got from it. Still it's been my experience that when ever a group of adult Scouter's get together without any Scouts around they tend to have a good time and are open to the exchange of ideas. So keep an open mind and have a great time. Ea.

Thanks Eagle92. I spend a fair amount of my time at work presenting a lot of different trainings, everything from Transportation of inmates, Suicide prevention, to Combating negativity in the work place with another dozen or so courses thrown in for good measure. Trying to keep up to date with all the changes that are made is at times hard. I'm not exactly sure when I became a ASHI Instructor, it was a few years back. When all the changes came along and there were a lot! I was required to take an on-line course that was supposed to cover all the changes. The on-line course came along before the new presentation materials were available and with permission from ASHI we kept on presenting the old course. At the start of this year we received the new course material, new student books, new videos, new power point presentations. I don't remember tourniquets being mentioned in the upgrade on-line course and was surprised when they did pop up on a power point presentation slide. While all of our classes are small, rarely more than 20 and everyone has been trained at our academy making what we do a recertification course. Trying to cover all the material and having to do two exams in the time set (3 hours) Is really difficult. I'm trying to see if we can be given more time. Some of our other instructors have somehow come up with the idea that we in the department do not teach the use of tourniquets. I'm not sure where they are seeing this? So far the department has not informed me and there has been no word from ASHI. So until I get something in black and white I'm going to present the material as is. Back when I was a Scout in the UK learning Fist Aid. I took the Saint John's Ambulance course. Saint John's being the UK equivalent to what the American Red Cross is here in the USA. At that time (About 40 years ago!!) Tourniquets were part of that course. At that time the practice of loosening them every twenty minutes was still around. As a Scout in the UK, I remember spending many happy hours practicing the art of bandaging, splinting and all that good stuff. I am qualified as a Basic Wilderness First Aid Instructor, Wilderness First Responder and have the Wilderness EMT Upgrade. But for First Aid in the work place we as a rule cover what is needed until professional help will arrive. Sure we do touch upon bandages and splinting, but do not have the time to really go into much depth. While I do see that there are times when a tourniquet might be needed, my feeling is that for most situations at work our in house medical staff would arrive before I'd get a tourniquet on and in most cases direct pressure would suffice. Having said that, I'm willing to admit that no two situations are the same and ensuring that the students I teach do have the knowledge and know how to be able to deal with what might come along is very important. We do tailor some of what we teach for where we are but this is set down in guidelines set by the department. Ea.

"because we have gutter press like the Daily Mail." No! When we want a true unbiased report we read the Sun, least ways we do now that the News Of The World is no more. Nothing beats a good hacked news story.

Cambridgeskip From what the good people on the BBC World Service seem to be saying, the Germans feel that they really shouldn't be bailing everyone else out and everyone else feels that the Germans are a bunch of arrogant toe-rags. The present situation is not doing anything for European harmony. While all eyes are on China, India is doing what? Ea.

In Corrections we do train for the worst type of situations. We have all sorts of special teams that can be called upon and put to use if needed. We have a full medical staff that in most "Normal" situations can be in almost any part of the jail within minutes. The local hospital is less than a five minute drive. With this in mind, the need to use a tourniquet would rarely be needed. However as we seen back in October 1989 in the Camp Hill Prison Riots, things can and sometimes are not normal. In a situation like this when there would be a delay in professional medical help being available the need might very well be a real one. I don't have any problem following and teaching the course material. In fact from a liability point to cover my tail and the tail of the Department, I'm bound to do so. Ea.

To be very honest in a jail setting the wait time for professional qualified medical help is normally very short. Many of the Correction Officers, especially the younger guys are not long out from serving in the military. My fear is that some of these guys will jump to using tourniquets, when there really isn't a need. Also, the course material doesn't do a very good job of covering the use of them. Ea.

Not sure about that. Little Sister was a solicitor before she was called to The Bar. I of course owned a few bars and never needed any calling! Ea.

"Show me a fastidiously uniformed troop these days and by and large you'll find "well-rounded" over-50 adults who really aren't models of outdoor adventure and mostly do car camping', but who do like to adult-run things" Not sure I agree with this. Here where I live the Scouts who are in full uniform tend to live in the better end of the Council and again because of their financial wellbeing these Troops travel more and offer program opportunities that Scouts in poorer Troops can only dream of. Maybe the older Scouter's are a bit more fussy over correct uniforming? But maybe a lot of these older guys have a better understanding of how things are supposed to work along with a willingness to allow things to work? Which comes from having done it for some time. At the end of the day generalizations are never a very good idea. I know a fair number of guys older than me who are far more out-door oriented then nearly all of the younger Scouter's I know. Ea.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

While I've never had any real problem with the uniform pants and have always worn them as part of the uniform. I have heard a lot of moans and groans about the cost of them. Parents of growing boys do at times have a hard time paying for these pants which in most cases are only worn for Scout meetings and special occasions. There are of course ways of helping Scouts who do have a hard time paying for these: Uniform Banks, buying used and so on. Of course the easiest way out is for Troops to not require them. Most Scouts I know are OK wearing the shorts for real outdoor Scouting, but because of the cost the long pants are used only for what used to be called Sunday Best. In Sea Scouts the youth members can buy a pair of Dickie's from a chain store like Wal-Mart for less than $25.00 and at times for less than $20.00 This cost does tend to make the pants a lot more user friendly and the Scouts seem happy to wear them more often. As for why? I do think that pants are an important part of any uniform. However just like the other methods a lot depends on the culture of the Troop. Some Troops never seem to have a problem with full and correct uniforming. It just seems to go without saying that Scouts and adults in these Troops wear the full uniform. I served as a Jamboree SM twice. All the Scouts had and wore full uniforms for the Jamboree. A few weeks after we had a re-union meeting. I was surprised at the number of Scouts who showed up wearing their Scout shirt and jeans. It wasn't that they didn't have the pants -They did. But they all belonged to Troops that had said that the pants were not required. Sometimes the Scouts do take notice of what is said to them. I still think if we could come up with pants that were more affordable, we'd see a lot more Scouts in full uniform Ea.

The day before Thanksgiving my oldies radio station stopped playing oldies and started playing Christmas music. After a day or so I'd had enough and changed stations, tuning into the BBC World Service. So for 37 minutes each day I'm exposed to what's happening in the world. This has at times got my little gray cells working and set me to some international pondering. Iran: I don't think that there is any getting away from it, Iran is a big pain in the neck. What I fail to see or understand is what Iran really wants? What's their end game? The Euro. I posted some little time back, after returning from Ireland that I thought the Euro was in trouble and was just a bad idea. Seems like there are a lot of German folks who are thinking the same way. I think the Euro is doomed. Only thing is I'm not sure how long it will take till Europe sees it that way. Greece. Boy oh boy what a mess! How about we all agree to allow Greece to become the permanent home of the summer Olympics and help them out a bit? China. Not sure how the USA can make such a big fuss of the Chinese Vice President,while knowing the record they have abusing everything from their own people to the planet and the unfair trading practices that they have. Ea.

"Eamonn. I think in the trade that's known as leaving a legacy, at least you know you will have one" Thanks OGE. Kinda looks like my legacy will be that of a Beggar. Come to think of it my dear sainted mother called me a "Little Beggar" When I was a little fellow and in her bad books - Which looking back was far more often than not! Ea.

Not trying t hijack the thread. HWMBO used to chair the Council Recognition Dinner. After I'd received the Silver Beaver, I sent out a letter to all other Silver Beaver recipients asking if they would like to donate some money to offset the cost of the awards. -It worked out well. Now every year I receive the letter I wrote! Signed by whoever the chair is that year. I chuckle every year. Think that letter might be around long after I'm dead and gone. Ea.

As you might imagine in a correctional setting it's important that all of our contact staff are trained in First Aid and CPR/AED. For my many sins, I'm one of the instructors in the jail where I work. The Department of Corrections uses the courses set by American Safety and Health Institute. Have to admit that prior to starting to work for the DOC, I'd never really heard of ASHI. Reading a little about them they seem in some ways to be affiliated with Saint John's, who were and maybe still are very big in providing First Aid training and courses back home in the UK. The course material was updated just recently. In fact it changed a lot, changing from one course to two. CPR/AED is now a course by itself, with Basic First Aid being its own course. I was a little surprised to see that tourniquets are back. Last year they were a big No, No. But now can be used to control severe bleeding in emergency situations when direct pressure isn't working. I don't teach or use any of the courses from other organizations, such as The American Res Cross. I was wondering if like ASHI they have also brought back tourniquets? Ea.

Here in my neck of the woods, the Scout meets with the District Advancement Chair. Or a member of the Advancement Committee. They go over the plan step by step. Our Advancement Chair wasn't available for a while, so I stood in for him. I really enjoyed meeting with the Scouts and doing what I could not only to help them ensure that their project would be a success, but also make them think about what leadership skills they would need and use to make this happen. I really don't see how a ESBOR could ever in a million years deny a project that has been approved by the organization who benefits from the project, the SM, the Troop Committee and the Advancement Committee. If the project wasn't going to meet the requirement then it should never have been approved before the work was started. For a completed project to be denied by the ESBOR because it didn't meet the requirement before it was started?? Would be a smack in the face everyone that approved it and be unfair to the Lad. Each and every Scout that I have worked with on this has been a little worried when he has met with me. Everyone of them has wanted to do what it takes to get their project approved, they also all want to do a good job. For my part, I've never seen this as something that just requires a rubber stamp. I like to meet with the Lad and go over the project, taking my time, making suggestions and driving home the point that most of all that it is a leadership project not just a job that needs doing. We do have some people in the Council who think that the project has to be at least 120 hours or some number in order to meet the requirement. They are just wrong! I'm not sure that having a Lad meet with the Advancement Committee is such a good idea? Working with just one person who can put the Lad at ease and who can pass on the idea that they are doing what's need to ensure the project is a success, seems a lot more fair to the Lad. I never fail to be amazed about how many different types of projects Scouts come up with. I've seen everything from Scouts planning and carrying out a Day Camp for mentally handicapped young people to building cages for injured wild life. Some of the most noticeable projects in the area where I live are not the best projects when it comes to leadership. I'd sooner see a group of Scouts work on one sign than see Dad make 50 signs without the Scout showing any leadership. When it comes to Eagle Scout Leadership Service Projects, it helps if the SM has met with the organization that is going to benefit from the project and explains what the project is really all about. If the Troop has someone who guides the Scout before he meets with the Advancement Chair. Also if the parents are made to understand what their role is and isn't. When I met with Scouts we as a rule met in my home and a parent was there. I made sure that before they both left the parent was aware that this was their son's project and while they were of course welcome to help. -Help didn't mean taking it over. When it seemed that some projects were a little weak. I found that by asking open ended questions, 99% of the time Scouts came up with their own tweaks that were needed to beef things up so that the requirements were met. I also tried to ensure that when the time came for the ESBOR that I was there to ensure that what was done was what we had talked about and what was in the project work book. Having the Scout and his parent see me as a person who was trying to ensure that the project worked and was there for them did away with ant feelings of confrontation Ea.

I'm very OK with the list. Maybe as an add on adding, listening, talking and advising your son in different situations nd circumstances might be a good idea? "Daddy dear, Ea yelled at me. I'm upset." "My dear boy I'll..." A/ phone the DE and report that this horrible man should not ever be allowed around young people ever again" B/ "This is a clear case of verbal abuse, I'll phone children and youth services. C/" "I'm going to punch that skinny little fellow on the nose!" D/ "Why did he yell at you? What were you doing? Where were you doing it? When did it happen? As for advise. How about: Have you talked to him about it? Maybe he was just having a bad day? "Grow up!" Ea.

I posted this at the time. My wives best friend has two boys. They are very close in age, I think that there's only 11 months between them. A couple of years back we visited them over the Christmas holiday. Both boys had been given a lap-top for Christmas. The older Las was complaining about how slow his was running. When I looked at it I found that he had downloaded a lot of very nasty porn. Dad was at that time a ASM in the District, I was District Chair. I didn't see this as anything to do with Scouts and Scouting even though both Lads were Scouts. You can imagine my predicament, I'm a guest in someones home, the woman is the best friend of my wife and it's the holiday. I weighed my options. Doing nothing is always an option. -But I didn't like that one. So I waited till I got the Dad alone and explained what I'd found and was happy to leave him deal with it as he thought best. To echo something that Eagledad touched on. Don't ever allow yourself to be drawn into keeping secrets, especially when it comes with anything that might be considered sexual in nature. It can come back and haunt you. In the jail I've seen really good corrections officers ruin their career by not reporting something only to find that at a later date the inmate will use this against him. This case is a little different as you really don't know exactly what went on, what was said and all the details. I think, I'd have a word with the Scout and a word with his parents. What they decide to do or not do? Is entirely up to them. Ea.

I've staffed a lot of courses. I've been around Scouting for almost 50 years! During my half century I've been given a lot of Patrol flags and stuff like that. While I know and appreciate the thought. However the truth is that in many ways they become like the drawings my son did when he was a little fellow. Sure we gave them a place of honor on the fridge, but after a while there were just so many drawings that when he wasn't around they disappeared. What does the Patrol who gifts a flag to a staff member really think is going to happen to the flag? Eamonn

Abusive? Maybe I'm old school but I just am unable to see myself ever in a million years, being abused by a Scout. -It just would never happen. Think we need a few more details. Ea

Twocubdad expressed my feeling to the letter. Without wishing to blow my own horn. When it comes to most traditional scout skills, I'm fairly good. -Above average. I'm 100% for me taking the time to teach others the skills I have. I hope the day never comes when Scouting is about adults winning and beating others along the way. Eamonn

"my cubmaster trainer told us all, "Your job is to act like a 12 year old again". While as adults it is great when we are able to see the world as if we are still the age group that we are working with. But acting like? I'm sorry, I couldn't disagree more. As for adults letting their hair down? There are times and places for this. I enjoy a good camp fire and have never refused to join in appropriate songs, skits and the like. We only have to look at the fuss some adults make during Pine Wood Derbies, to get a snap shot of adults behaving like little children. Or how upset some people get during Win All You Can The Game Of Life at Wood Badge. If a group of adults want to complete a pioneering project or orienteering course that Scouts can see as an example of how it's done? That's fine and dandy, but adult competition? Is just far to risky. Ea.