Eamonn

While I don't follow what is happening in UK Scouting, I did notice some time back that a Scout Group who has a very dear and close friend as the Group Scout Leader, had added a Anti-Bullying statement to the Scout Groups Web Site. Being as my friend is a retired Metropolitan Policeman, I thought it was just something that was him at work, however looking at the UK Scouts.org site, I see this is something that they have been doing for a few years. http://www.scouts.org.uk/bullying/AntiBullyingGuide.pdf Does seem to cover a lot of the information that we might need . Eamonn.

This is not in any way supposed to be sexist or a put down to either sex. I'm not sure how we got there? But the other day Her Who Must Be Obeyed made the statement that if anything happens to her, I would have to get remarried. Her reasoning for this was that I'm not very good around the house. Needless to say I did my best to defend myself!! Still it got me thinking about what I do, don't do, can do and can't do. It goes without saying that I'm a far better cook than she is. I do use a lot more pots,pans, dishes and make a bigger mess. But I do clean up after myself. I do know how to wash things both by hand and in the dishwasher. The big problem we have is that she buys stuff and I don't always know where she puts it. But again in my defense, nor does she. Last time I dived into the freezer in the garage I found three legs of lamb, that even she didn't know we had. I do know where the store is! I don't know what things cost. I tend to buy what I need along with anything else that seems like a good idea at the time. She seems to know the price of everything and buys things when they are on sale. She works hard at storing stuff in food saver bags. I have never mastered the art of getting that stupid vacuum machine to work. We have enough Irish Spring soap and toilet paper stored in the bathroom downstairs to last us for about ten years! Still when it goes on sale she will buy more. I don't drink soda-pop, but we have a store of that, along with case after case of bottled water. (Something else I don't use unless I'm taking a bottle in the car. I can clean the house. I don't do it very often. Running the vacuum cleaner, changing the bag and that sort of thing is not hard. I have no idea how the carpet steam cleaner thing works! I like the new duster she uses,it has a plastic handle and disposable dusting bit. I don't like the thing she uses to clean the floor in the kitchen, it also has a disposable cloth, uses something that isn't good for the dogs. It squirts this stuff out,powered by a couple of batteries. I'd sooner use an old fashioned mop and bucket, but we don't have a mop and bucket. A lot of the sewing that my mother did we don't do!! No patches to cover holes in pants or socks that are darned. We are both sewing impaired!! Her Mom Hems my pants and I pay the nice kind Lady in the Council Service Center to sew patches on my uniforms. I'm not good in the laundry room. Taking stuff from the washer and loading it in the dryer, tossing in a couple of them smelly sheets, turning the dial to "Very Dry" and pushing the button is easy. My folding technique, does need work, so I don't fold opting to use hangers for everything. I don't know what or when bleach is used for. I do know what is white, have a fair idea what is dark, but what the heck is lights? I'm not sure why but it seems to me that we have enough chemicals, sprays, sticks and different detergents to clean up after a nuclear holocaust. I'm not sure if they are all really needed or necessary? I take care of mowing the grass and looking after the trees. The dogs are mine!! I walk them, feed them and take care of them. I take care of our money, she does write the checks for paying bills that we don't have the bank take care of. I look after the cars. She tends to take a more active role in what OJ is doing than I do. They talk to each other more than him and I do. Of course when something doesn't go as it should he becomes "Your Son" I like to think that we (Her and I) are a team. I know and am aware of how hard she works, both at the hospital and at home. I'm very aware that working shifts is hard. But I do think if the time should come I'm more than capable of looking after the house, maybe not keeping it as spic and span as she does, but I don't think the dust bunnies will over run the house. I'm sure with a little more information I can master the art of laundry -Ironing might take a lot more practice!! I'm not sure what I'd do with several hundred bars of Irish Spring soap? I use that body wash stuff!! Eamonn

Today is my birthday, I'll add another year to the time I've been in Scouting count. I like to think that maybe I'm one of the people who do care not only about this topic, but for the Scouts we serve and for Scouting. If we are set on setting a standard of excellence? The standard setting starts with "The Scout learns." Ensuring that the people who are doing the teaching are doing it right is the first step. Step two "The Scout is tested." is the step that really does set the standard. I'm not really sure if "Excellence" is the standard? When I think about Advancement in Scouting as a method of Scouting, it goes hand in hand with Personal Growth and Adult Association. Advancement in Scouting in Scouting is specifically designed to present every boy with a big challenge, broken up into smaller and smaller challenges. A Scout learns to set goals, develop plans for meeting those goals, to motivate himself to do what needs to be done, to always try his best and keep trying, and even that his perception of what he can do is often wrong. The Scout learns about his personal abilities and limitations, and ways to overcome those limitations and take advantage of those abilities. Being that we deal with different Scouts with different abilities, we will have Scouts who do excel in some areas, while others will struggle to meet or pass the requirement and might just barely scrape by. A Scout who is an excellent swimmer and is on a swim team will pass any swimming test with no problem, while a Lad who is new to swimming might really have to work hard at meeting and passing the requirements. The standard is set by the requirement not the excellent swimmer. The time for "Quality Control" is in step one and two. Once a requirement has been signed off or a Merit Badge has been passed. The deed is done. Is it the fault of the Scout that someone else didn't do what they were supposed to do? Or didn't do their job? Should the Scout be penalized for something that was beyond his control? I know Sea Scouting is not Boy Scouting. But in the Ship I tend to have lots of informal little chats with the Sea Scouts. Every now and then I'll go on a "Advancement Catch Up" This is when I decide that it's time to get the advancement records up to date. I will meet with the Scouts who need to have records signed and updated. Some things just need to be signed off -Things like number of nights needed for a long cruise. Other requirements will require that the Scout demonstrate a skill to me. Sometimes this can be done then and there or sometimes we will come up with a time when it can be done. There are times when the requirement may have been met, but the end result was not that great! (I'm thinking about cooking -The Scout might have planned and cooked the meals for a weekend but the food might have left a lot to be desired!!) We will have a chat about what went wrong and look for ways of improving the final result. All along the "Path to Advancement" we have these little talks. Sometimes a Scout will come up to me and inform me that I need to sign off something. (This is what normally happens!) Sure every now and then he or she will try and pull a fast one!! Or they might not understand the requirement. I do my best to explain the requirements and not allow the fast ones to get by me!! We do hold Skipper Conferences and BOR's. Sadly these are normally rushed and squeezed in before a Bridge of Honor. I know all of the Scouts, I know what they have done and not done. The Ship's Committee know me, they know that when I send a Scout for a BOR. I'm saying "Here is Sea Scout Whats His Name, who is ready to advance. He is ready to advance because I say he is ready. I'm not saying here he is because he thinks he is ready. I'm putting my name and my reputation on the line. I feel blessed that the Ship's Committee do trust me and know that I'm not going to send them a Scout who hasn't met the requirements. The Skipper Conference before the BOR, is more formal than the Skipper Chats we have. I do go over all the paper work and ensure that everything is in order. But the time is spent looking back at how the Scout has done (Performed) and making plans for what comes next. If we found that a requirement had not been met and there was no way of meeting it before the BOR,he or she would have no need to attend the BOR until such a time as the requirement was met. But I'd do everything possible to ensure that we moved on getting that requirement done ASAP and have him or her attend another BOR ASAP. Eamonn.

I can't help feeling that in the next few days this is going to arrive in my "Incoming Mail". I will not bother opening it and will delete it PDQ. I'm happy with my beliefs, my religion and how I choose to spend the holiday. purcelce, If this does sum up your feelings? I can live with that. As for me? I couldn't care less if stores use the word Christmas or not. I really don't care how political people spend the holiday or what they think of it. If someone wants to wish me a Merry Christmas or Happy Holiday, I'll take it and be thankful for their good wishes. I work with a lot of practicing Muslims, when they go to say their prayers I ask them to say one for me. Lord knows I need all the prayers I can get!! When the time comes for me to part with my hard earned cash, the price of what I'm buying will determine where I spent it! I don't care about the religious policy of the store, if they are having a Holiday Sale or a Christmas Clearance. We will once again host our open house over the holiday, inviting friends and relations to stop in for some Christmas Fare. There will be the Nativity Scene in the dining room. It's not there to upset anyone, if it does they are free to leave or not come. My feeling is that it's my house and I'll put what I like in it. Some of the people who stop by will be non-Christian, in fact I have no idea what religion if any a lot of them choose to follow. That's up to them. The poem doesn't tick me off!! But if this is an example of "Tidings of comfort and joy"? We really have a long way to go. Eamonn.

The four steps to advancement: The Scout learns. The Scout is tested. The Scout is reviewed. The Scout is recognized. The Scout Learns: Just about anyone can teach, mentor or coach the Scout, if they have the skill and know how. This "Anyone" could be a youth member,Scoutmaster, Assistant Scoutmaster, Committee Member or parent. The Scout is tested: Once the Scout has learned or has met the requirement, he is given the opportunity to demonstrate his knowledge and show that he has mastered the skill or has met the requirement. If he is unable to do so, more teaching, mentoring or coaching is needed. If he has mastered the skill or has met the requirement a record of this is made. Normally in the Scouts copy of his Scout Handbook. Different Troops have different rules about who is allowed to sign off on requirements. Many not only allow but encourage other youth members to sign off (initial) the blocks found in the Scout Handbook, while others require that a Troop Leader (An Adult?) does the signing. Of course the person who is doing the testing does need to have knowledge of the requirement and in most cases know how of the skill. This is the area that needs the most quality control. When done correctly it eliminates the other problems which can arise from it not being done right. The Scout is reviewed: The review is done in two parts. The Scout meets with the Scoutmaster for a Conference. This is a time when everything is checked and the SM makes sure that everything is in order. It is also a time for both the SM and the Scout to go over what is working and what isn't. (Feedback is a gift.) It is in no way related to the Spanish Inquisition. Scouts can not fail a Scoutmaster Conference, but if it becomes clear that some requirement have not been met, it can be tabled until such a time as the requirements have been met. The Scoutmaster Conference is also a good time for the SM and the Scout to look back at the Scout's strong points and weak points. The Scoutmaster can offer words of encouragement and help the Scout make plans and set goals for the future. The second part of the review is the Board Of Review. If all the other steps have been met correctly, by the time a Scout gets to the BOR there should be no question if the Scout is ready or not. If it does become clear that something is not working? This needs to be taken up with the Scoutmaster. After all he or She has by sending the Scout to the BOR said that the Scout is ready to advance. Again this is a time when the program offered by the Troop can be looked at and feedback can be given to the SM. It again is a time for the Scout to demonstrate his understanding of the Scout Law and Oath and make plans for the future. Some of these plans might be within Scouting and some might have to do with interests outside of Scouting. The Scout is recognized: Having met all the requirements the Scout should be recognized for doing so. He can be recognized more than once. While the Court of Honor is the big recognition ceremony, there is nothing against recognizing the Scout several times before the COH. Badges or cards can be presented at anytime, with the Badge or the card presentation being done at the COH. Soon after a Scout has had the BOR announcements of the Scouts accomplishments can be made. Eamonn.

Can't help thinking that a lot depends on the interpretation of the word earned. Are we saying that a badge is earned when the requirements are met? Or are we we talking about record keeping? I see my role as serving the Scouts and helping to deliver the program of the BSA. I don't want to place any un-necessary obstacles or hurdles in their way. Advancement is a method of Scouting, it isn't the be all and end all of Scouting. For the method to work the Scout should be recognized, this does mean that records have to be kept. I want the Scouts I serve to get what they have earned, if they don't get it, they will feel let down and that I have let them down. If they feel strongly about this they might decide to quit. If they quit any good that Scouting can provide will be lost. Some people just love paper work and record keeping. God bless them!! I work with a fellow who loves this sort of thing. I tease him calling him a "Paper work Nazi" (He is a giant of a man and African American, he takes it in good fun.) I used to resent the fact that he would get on me for not having all the paperwork up to date, till I worked out that he was in fact helping me do my job better. He is never happier than when he is collecting information and entering it where it needs to be entered. He really does a great job. If this is really making the best use of his time? Is another question. The flow of information and record keeping in Scouting is necessary. Most Scouters I know don't have a real problem with it, they just do it or find a way of getting it done. Helping to ensure that the Scouts in the Ship are having fun, adventure and are being challenged is my job. If the challenge they choose is some kind of an Advancement whatever, the reward at the end needs to be given. The reward might just be me signing my name indicating that a requirement has been met and when all these requirements are met a rank is awarded or for some of the Ship's members it can be a Merit Badge. The Badge in it-self isn't anything more than a bit of material. The "Big Thing" is the challenge - Them meeting the requirements. There is no real challenge in them beating the system.But I don't have the time, the skills or the inclination to go out and make sure that all the MB Counselors are doing everything that they are supposed to be doing. I have to trust that they are doing their job. I have to trust that the people who gave them the job think that they have the skills to get the job done. Or will fix it if the job isn't being done. I have to trust the Scouts when they return and tell me that they have met the requirements, which is different than them telling me that Mr Soandso signed the card. The system is not without its faults, but does work nearly all of the time. It's never going to be perfect. Ea.

I don't claim to be any sort of "Guru"! Last time I checked the Staff at our summer camp were still using the Blue cards. Most units are still using the blue cards, but this doesn't mean that these blue cards are the only way to go! As we have seen with them pesky Tour Permits, there are times when a local option is acceptable. Scoutnet when it was first used was almost usable. It has got a lot better and the BSA is or at least seems to be coping and using new technology a lot better than it did. In the other thread that asked when is a MB earned? We looked at a lot of stuff. I can't help thinking about a pay check!! When it is earned is one thing. But earning it and having the money in the bank is another. The real final word about MB's is Scoutnet!! Until the information is in the system, it kinda doesn't exist! The information is put in locally by the Council Registrar, his or her boss the SE has the final word as to what is and what isn't acceptable. I'm sorry, I'm a little lost about what the question about "is there anything in there about the need to register or charter a unit?" This of course would be covered by the BSA Bylaws that cover membership and the right to wear BSA Badges. Eamonn.

I'm not 100% sure of the right answer!! I'm sure a call to your local Council Service Center and a chat with the Council Registrar is the best answer. There used to be a code for youth who were attending college. I'm unsure how it worked or if it's still used. We have adults who are adults registered in an other Council, they also serve on the Ship's Committee. They make the other position in the other Council their primary position and pay the membership that goes to the National Office in that Council, but register as a "Multiple" with the Ship and our Council. You should only pay the membership fee once for one person. I do believe that you should belong to the Lodge in the Council which has your primary registration. I might be wrong!! My thinking is that if the SE of the Council is the "Chief of the Fire", he should only be Chief of people who are in the Council that he serves. Scoutnet might not recognize two different memberships as the same person, unless someone (You?) tells it to do so and you might get hit with paying twice. Some not so kind people might think that by trying to be two members in two Councils you might be trying to hide something! I don't think it's a very good idea. Do check things with the person who knows, if it seems that they don't, have them call the National Office. (They have a number that gets through to the right person!!) Good Luck with school. Ea.

"My question to da group is "Why?" In these cases, where did we blow it? What should have been done differently?" "Was it not emphasizing Scout Spirit for rank? Passin' kids for just holding a position rather than performing it well? " Great Questions!! Did anyone catch the story on 60 Minutes (CBS Sunday, November 11,2007) titled: The "Millennials" Are Coming? (Copied from the CBS News web site: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/60minutes/main3475200.shtml They were raised by doting parents who told them they are special, played in little leagues with no winners or losers, or all winners. They are laden with trophies just for participating and they think your business-as-usual ethic is for the birds. And if you persist in the belief you can, take your job and shove it.... "Some of them are the greatest generation. They're more hardworking. They have these tools to get things done," she explains. "They are enormously clever and resourceful. Some of the others are absolutely incorrigible. It's their way or the highway. The rest of us are old, redundant, should be retired. How dare we come in, anyone over 30. Not only can't be trusted, can't be counted upon to be, sort of, coherent.... ""You now have a generation coming into the workplace that has grown up with the expectation that they will automatically win, and they'll always be rewarded, even for just showing up,". May be it wasn't just us? Eamonn

"and the 10-15% contingency fee is usually mandated by all councils. " To date we don't have such a thing!! Somehow I kinda think it wouldn't go over very well in our area!! It would be as well received as that nasty tax that Alexander Hamilton, put on whiskey back in 1791. Eamonn.

I'm game, but I need to give the little gray cells a bit of time!! Ea.

Joni4TA It seems to me that most of what you asked has been answered. Most Councils are happy to see trainings break even. Some SE's do get a little testy when things lose money. The Course Director does have some say in what the money will be spent on. When I was CD we charged $200.00. The course started at 0800 on two Fridays and ended about 1600 on two Sundays. (Some people opted to come in on the Thursday and sleep over, we did provide them with breakfast.) With all the "Fuss" that can arise from who wears what hat or cap. I decided that we would have a ball-cap that everyone would wear. We also provided everyone with two course t-shirts. To be honest I never thought of these as being fluff!! Having owned a couple of bars I had/still have a great collection of shirts that have beer ads all over them. Nothing wrong with the shirts! But not really the thing to wear to a Scouting event. (Yes I have seen a Scouter wearing a shirt with a marijuana plant and the slogan this buds for you at a Boy Scout Camp) We had a full course, which did make not going over budget not so hard. In fact we made money from the sale of photos and the sale of a CD that I made with music from the course and more photos of the participants. Other courses I have been on have sold other items, mainly mugs and patches.Of course not knowing who will want this stuff and how it will sell makes it hard to include in the budget. Our Council does not have any sort of fund that are made available to help leaders (Adults) pay for training. Back when I was Cubmaster I did get the Pack Committee to agree to pay for all leader training. Unfortunately when it came to Wood Badge seven leaders from the pack signed up. Of course there was no way the Pack was going to fork over $1,400.00!! Two of the leaders were husband and wife and they had four kids (All Boys and all in Scouts) Them and a couple of others who were living on some kind of a fixed income (Social Security?) did manage to attend, we used the money from the "Lost Deposits" to help reduce the cost. If that money hadn't been available plan "B" was that I'd ask if the funds be made available from the Golf outing that I organized for the Council. The big thing about helping people is knowing that they need help! It really helps if they can have a quiet word in the CD's ear. Most times there are ways of making it happen without any fuss or any sort of embarrassments. I know that my big worry about the course I was Director for, was making sure we had enough participants, I was far more worried about the course being canceled than the money!! Take my word for it I was going to find the money that would get anyone and everyone who wanted to attend.

Barry If I were to be joined at the hips with anyone? Please know that you would be on the list! Of course Her That Must Be Obeyed and Eaglemom might not be so keen on the idea. Happy Thanksgiving. Eamonn.

I have sat in on a lot of Eagle Scout BOR. Never once has anyone asked for or gone over the blue, white, pink or any other colored cards. When the time came for OJ to complete his Eagle Scout Application, he phoned the Council Service Center and requested a copy of his advancement report. He transfered that information onto the application. He did take that report with him to the BOR, but no one asked to look at it. My big problem with all of this is that I know the Scouts I serve. When the time comes that the Lad is ready to ask for an Eagle Scout BOR, we have a chat (Conference). 99.9% of the time I know a lot about the Lad. He knows that I know!! Him knowing that I know goes a long way to prevent any sort of monkey business. I have been an adult in Scouting for a fairly long time. To date I have never ever heard about a Scout trying to bribe a MBC! Hack into Scoutnet or do anything like this. Sure there are Scouts who may have badges that they have been given without meeting all the requirements. But this is not the Scouts fault. They didn't sign the card saying that the requirement had been met. For a very long time our District Merit Badge Counselor list was a real mess (In fact it was unfix-able and we had to start over.) I'm almost certain that a lot of the badges "Earned" were signed off by people who had never been approved. This wasn't the fault of the Scout. Maybe the SM should have taken more care? But a lot of the fault was the Districts for not having a list that worked. Even after we managed to get a list that worked, it turns out that no one any where is checking who is signing off. A card goes into the Service Center and it could be signed by Santa Clause!! Of course the hope is that Mr. Scoutmaster is a trustworthy individual. Re. Lost Cards or badges that a Scout has completed and are not in the system? I'm happy that I know the Scout, I know if he is trying to pull a fast one or not!! I really like the Scouts I serve, they know it. If Tim claims to have earned the Lifesaving MB and I have seen him struggle to pass the BSA swim test, he knows that I'm going to say something or the eyebrow is going to go up!! Sure I'll tell him to "Come off it!!" We will find a way to fix the problem and we will have a chat about what the Scout Law and Oath should be about. If you know the Scouts and have a real relationship with them, all this stuff just doesn't happen. Or if it does you know how to deal with it in a nice way. Eamonn.

Of course we need to remember that there was another WB Course, along with the Boy Scout there was a Cub Scout Trainer course. All the meals were provided and there was a lot of sitting around listening. The Ticket was really hard as it had to do with only Training. The course was a week long. Like most training's that are offered; once you were there and got into it! It was fun. I know that after attending it and staffing it I was a far better trainer. But I never did understand why we went to a Scout Camp? Slept in a tent? A meeting room at a local Holiday Inn would have worked far better!! Very few Cub Scouter's took the course. It was offered at the Regional level and at times failed to take into account local differences. Sadly a lot of the people who did attend really weren't involved in Adult Leader Training, they really had no reason to be there and the course didn't meet their expectations. The 21st Century is a good course on leadership. The people who don't seem to get as much out of it as others are the people who have taken leadership courses for their job. This might be because the staff at WB are volunteers?Not the professionals who charge an arm and a leg. I do have some concerns about what might happen in the future, with what I have heard about NYLS and having seen the Leadership Courses that OJ has taken with the OA(At the Section level)It kinda seems to me that by the time people like OJ (Now 19) take the course, they will have been there, done that and it will be the same old same old. I really don't have a problem with the WB Course. As a course on leadership it does deliver the goods. I think there is a problem with the other Training's. Very few of the Cub Scouter's I know return to get the specific training they need when they change positions. Maybe I'm stuck in my ways but I still prefer the old Cub Scout Leader Training's. I think the Cub Scout Trainer position is like the Den Leader Coach, a great idea, which due to lack of manpower just doesn't work. No pack in our area has a working Cub Scout Trainer. The NLE's is a good course -Even with the silly Bridge (Committees have a jig-saw!!) I think at times the delivery is rushed, the break out session needs looked at. Done right it should have all the participants going home with a good over-view of all the sections. The Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Trainings need to be combined (Specific and Out-door) and spread over two full weekends. There is way too much information given at the Specific Training over nine hours and having a group sitting around with only 3 activities over that nine hours is just not working. The outdoor training isn't bad, but all too often the people who need the most help get overshadowed by the people who do have the skills. (This happened a lot at the old Boy Scout course and the course I took at Gilwell Park) Maybe moving R/T from the Commissioner Staff to the Training Teams might result in better trained leaders? Maybe taking a long hard look at the people we invite to serve as Trainers would be a good idea? It seems a little daffy to me that we shouldn't ask a leader to be a commissioner, but don't seem to worry when we take him or her from his or her unit to help deliver training's which if the job is to be done right can't be done at the drop of a hat. I was asked to step down as Council Training Chairman, when I was selected to become District Chairman, which was the right thing to do, but when I needed trainers I raided the units?? We need to stop looking at handing out WB Staff positions as some kind of a reward. We do need to find the best presenters and do everything we can to help them develop. While I'm happy that we have got away from the Wood Badge "Good Old Boys" Club, I'm not so sure that the rule of one turn at Course Director and your out is such a good move. Most people who have been asked to be CD were asked for a reason? To never use these people again seems silly. While I'm ranting!! I'm not sure we need to bother with all the extra beads. Sure I wear my set of four, but I don't need too let the world know! I'd be just as happy wearing a set of two. (I'm done now!!) Eamonn.

I really think if the BSA had been silly enough to allow me to be in charge of changing the course! I would never have called it Wood Badge! I would not have kept or used the critters or even used the word Patrol!! The course is supposed to be a step in the continuum of training's. Information about specific program areas should be covered in earlier trainings. (NLS?) Specific trainings needed to deliver the good for the area in which someone serves should be available. There are Training's for every area I can think of. Trying to somehow keep everyone happy by morphing them into something that they are not or might have no interest in seems to me to be a waste of time. One of the big complaints (Areas) that stuck out like a sore thumb on the course evaluations for the course I was CD for was the lack of information we provided the Varsity Program. I did have handouts that I got from National which we did handout. But as a follow up I looked into Varsity Scout units in the Councils that the participants came from. (5 Councils) None of the Councils had a Varsity unit, none had ever had one and talking with the participants none of them had plans to get involved with starting one!! Would spending a lot of time on Varsity Scouts have been a good idea? I think not. I'm 100% for more and better Program Specific Training's. Commissioners have a on going training program. Cub Scouters have a specific training for different roles and some Councils offer Pow-wows or Come And Dos. Venturers have Powder Horn. Boy Scouters have the Outdoor Training. Is a weekend course enough to get everything you need to be a great SM? Of course it isn't. But if we were to increase the time to say a week? How many people would sign up? Brent, I don't have a problem with conservation projects nor question the good that can be done. I do question if the person who signs on as the Council Treasurer and takes WB doing a project is really time well spent? The movie has now been shown on TV a lot!! If it is deemed to be a must have? Why not move it to the Patrol Meetings (I picked up a DVD at Wal-mart for $5.50) When I sat in on the Course presentation it seemed to me that the participants were having a hard time staying awake!! Ea.

So far I'm not sold on this "ManScout" idea. Evey time I see it I can't help but think about Tim Allen (Tim on Home Improvement) I am who I am!! I'm very comfortable in my own skin. There are some things I'm good at and a lot of things I'm lousy at. I have spent a lifetime in Scouting. I would hope that along the way I have done some good and really hope that I have worked to serve others. But being really honest I remained in for the most part because I was having fun. I enjoy the youth members, be they the little Lad's at Day Camps, Boy Scouts who struggle to learn the joys of knots, or the older youth who try and convince me that Rap music is where it's at. I enjoy the adults in Scouting, nearly all my best friends are people I have met through Scouting. As for Wood Badge? Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the course. I think a lot of people who attend come away with more then they had before attending. But it's a Training course. Nothing less and nothing more. The course is a Leadership Course. It covers the skills needed for Team Development and all that good stuff. It is supposed to be for everyone and everyone who attends should come away with ideas and knowledge about how they can get what they do a little better. The Council President who might never have had any experience working in Scouting with youth or adults in Scouting will come away with tools needed to do his or her job a little better. The Den Leader will not return to the Den with 101 different craft ideas, but maybe will be able to work better with the other adults in the Pack a little better. The Sea Scouter is not going to learn how to sail, but hopefully will be able to see the strong and not so strong areas that the Quarterdeck needs to work on. If an idiot attends Wood Badge? He will still be an idiot when he completes the course, only thing is that he will be an idiot with beads. Our organization and Scouting as a world wide movement depends on a lot of different people doing a lot of different jobs. Sure the people involved with the program and working with the youth are the most visible and the program is where the rubber meets the road. Still there are a lot of Scouter's who work really hard for Scouting, without ever working with the youth, they do work for the youth. At this time in the Council I'm in, we as far as I know don't have any female Scoutmasters. I'm not sure why? Most of the Scoutmasters we do have have been Scoutmaster for a long time, very few have less than 15 years in!! We also don't have any Hispanic Scoutmasters, mainly because we don't have a large Hispanic community. We also don't have any African-American Scoutmasters, even though we do have communities that are African-American. This is really sad, when the time comes for the youth we serve to go out into the real world chances are that they are going to work with and for females, African-Americans and people from the Hispanic Community. Wood Badge has tried to increase our awareness of diversity and the need for it. I'm unsure what the ManScout have to say about this? Or how it fits into the ManScout ideology? Please don't try and judge the Wood Badge Course by the people who have taken the course. Each and everyone of them is hopefully trying to do their best. Is their best the benchmark for what your best is? Each of them has different skills, different up-bringing, different levels of education and different experiences than what you may have had. I don't think I ever want to be given the title "Man Scout" I'd be far happier if people thought of me as a Scouter who was trying to do his best. Eamonn.

The world might be a complicated place? Maybe I have led a sheltered life? But it has been my experience that parents are a lot harder when it comes to dealing with their own kids. If I really thought an adult member of the unit who was an MBC was handing out unearned badges or someone was signing off on requirements that had not been met. I think my first port of call would be to have a chat with them. Of course I would be as kind and diplomatic as I could be and not come down like a ton of bricks. To the best of my knowledge our Council has never offered MBC Training's, so I can't say much about them. I would hope that this sort of thing would be covered at that sort of training. I think I have posted this before, but what the heck! Some years back I received a phone call from a very upset parent. Her son suffered from an alphabet of challenges, but he had really worked his heart out working toward the Dog Care MB. Keeping logs and anything that involved picking up a pen wasn't something that came easy to this kid. When they (His mother and the Lad) thought they were ready they contacted the Counselor (Yes I know that this should have been done first and I did point it out to the Mom and did contact the SM to pass on how it should work!)by phone. He said he was free and they could come by. They got in the car and drove to his house, armed with all the records and good stuff the Lad had worked so hard on, they rang the doorbell. The Counselor came out, asked the Lad if he had a dog? Of course the Lad replied that he did. The Counselor took the blue card, left the Lad standing on the doorstep while he went back in the house and signed the card. Two minutes later the Lad and Mom were driving home. Mom was upset that her son had done all this what was hard work for her son for nothing!! At the other end of the spectrum we had a older Scout working in the Nature Area at camp, he was not accepting reports that Scouts had done while working on the Environmental Science MB if there were spelling errors. This led to a lot of complaints from SM's and the Reservation Director told him to ease up a bit. Sadly he eased up a bit too much and this led to a lot of complaints from SM's. The world might be a complicated place? Especially if your working up at summer camp and your the MBC working without clear guidelines and direction. Eamonn.

Can't help thinking that we are looking at two different questions. If the question is: "When exactly is a Merit Badge considered "earned"?" That has been asked and answered!! If however the question is: "What should be done if you (The SM) feels that the requirements weren't met?" That's a different question. I suppose the book answer is that someone, somewhere goes about and takes whatever action is needed to have that Counselor removed from his or her counseling job. However IMHO which really isn't worth that much and is not backed up by the BSA. I can see that a lot of different things do come into play. First off I'd look at what MB we are talking about. While at Summer Camp I have seen the handwork of some young Scouts working on the Basketry MB. The end results do leave a lot to be desired!! But as a rule the Scouts who take this badge are the younger Scouts and I do feel that they have given it their best effort. The counselor may have been a little - Shall we say open minded. If the badge is one of the "Big ones" or might compromise the health and safety of others or the Scout, I'm all for removal of the counselor. This of course doesn't fix the problem of having a MB that while in the eyes of the BSA does count, but might not be all that it should be. Of course when this happens, we need to remember that whatever happened the Scout is not to blame. The word "Review" is open to interpretation. Any sort of retesting is not an option. I think I'd go on a "Fishing Expedition" Asking friendly type questions. Something along the lines of: "Hey Tim how was the Pioneering Merit Badge?" "Great we had a lot of fun" "That's wonderful, now you will be able to teach the guys how to form an eye splice." "Well, ugh we didn't really do that, we didn't have enough rope!" "That's a shame! Still maybe you can bring in your model of a signal tower or a monkey bridge, so the younger Scouts can see it?" "I can't do that!! Mr Eamonn said that was just silly, so we didn't bother with it!!" "Hey Tim -What parts did you cover?" "Mr Eamonn said we only had to demonstrate how to tie two spars together using a shear lashing! I was upset I really wanted to try building that bridge we seen at the last Camporee." "Tim, there really is a lot more to the Pioneering merit badge than just using a shear lashing, what do you say we go over it again and this time you will get to build that bridge?" I would of course have a word with the District or Council Advancement chair about the terrible job that Eamonn guy was doing and explain what happened to Tim. Eamonn.

I'm really happy I had nothing to do with developing the "New" course. Trying to save bits from the old course (I'm thinking about the Boy Scout Course) Which used a more hands on practical approach to the new management/ leadership type course, that covers four programs must have been really hard. Things I'd change? I'd bring back the pre-course meeting. I'd take a long hard look at if the Win All You Can Game (The Game Of Life) is really doing what it is supposed to be doing? I'd move all talk about Tickets to Day 3. The 360-Degree Self-Assessment, just never seems to work! I'm not really sold on the value of bringing people away for a leadership course and having them perform a conservation project. - I can't help thinking this was some sort of window dressing! The course needs to do a better job of trying to get people to really understand more about their personal Vision and Mission. I'd be happy to leave more what the Outdoor Experience might be to the Course Director. I can't help but think that the Instructional Camp Fire is way over-scripted (My guide has 20 pages!!) Yes, some of it is outstanding, but come on!! We get the idea!! I like the movie. But is it really a vital part of the course? Day one is really hard on the seat!! Eamonn

LongHaul Have to own up to not knowing much about sex therapists be they ordained or not. The day to day running of most units is as a rule not rocket science and about as far away from being a Soap Opera as anything I know. Of course sometimes after visiting this forum I do have to wonder. Units at any given time (Looking at a District) Tend to fall into: The Very Good The Good. The Not So Good. The Trying To Get There. And The Downright Ugly. While every unit (In a perfect world?) Should have an expectation of receiving Commissioner Service and that expectation should be met. The Very Good and Good Units can get by with very minimal service. In a lot of cases The Downright Ugly Units, unless there is some sort of miraculous event! Are past saving and even the "District Types" are aware of this and are willing to let them die. At times even hoping that the end comes sooner rather than later! This of course leaves the Not So Good along with the Units that are Trying To Get There. Some Not So Good Units will have been Not So Good for a very long time. Some might be open to change, some are happy to remain where they are, doing what they do and getting what they get. (The Troop OJ was in was a Not So Good Troop. At times they had a lot of Scouts, they had a fair outdoor program. But somehow never seemed to allow the Scouts make any decisions and tried to be an Eagle Scout factory -Going as far as to have "Where Eagles Fly" on the back of their Troop ball-caps) Some of these units are served by adults who have attended every training under the sun,. They just think that their way of doing things is better. Of course things do change; leaders come and go and opportunities that might change the way they do things can and do crop up. At times a hard working Commissioner can prevent things from getting worse and hopefully can help improve things? Units that are trying to get there. Do offer the Unit Commissioner a more rewarding task. It's in a Unit like this where he or she will have the most influence. A lot of the problems that all units face have nothing to do with practical Scouting, the problems are about adults who can't get on or are fighting and squabbling. When this happens having an outsider who doesn't have a vested interest in the unit (Sure he has one in the program) can be a big help. This person doesn't need a vast amount of Scouting know how to see what or who the problem is and offer suggestions about what can be done to fix the problem or failing that bring in someone who can. The District I'm in has about 40 units. Most of the time the units amble along doing what they do, with little or no problems. The visit from the UC is more or less a "Hi, how is it going?" type meeting. If there is something going on, he or she can pass that information along. Very few units or Commissioners get involved with uniform inspections. There is always the big push to get the charters in on time. Commissioners do play a big par in making sure that happens. Back when I was District Commish. One big problem we had was that people would by-pass the Unit Commissioner and most times would call me or the DE (Who would then call me!!) We did have a few Unit Commissioners who had served as the Unit Commissioner to the same unit for a very long time, so long in fact that they may have become a little too close to the unit and the people they liked in the unit. Maybe we need to think about asking the question "What Do You Expect From Your Unit Commissioner?" before we look at the qualifications of one? Sadly if I were to spin off? I kinda think we would get a lot of stories about how Unit Commissioners? Who are they? Old Codgers who pop up every now and then, coffee cup in hand and talk about the good old days and sadly the Commissioners who never really understood what being a friend to the unit was all about and are on some sort of power trip. -So I'm not going there!! Eamonn.

For a while I worked as a school teacher, teaching English History. Of course I wasn't around when Henry the Eighth was using the Tower as a behead and breakfast joint or when Queen Elizabeth was ducking and diving with Sir Francis Drake. I loved English History and thought I liked kids. Sadly after a couple of years I was ready to pull my hair out. Not because I lacked the subject knowledge. I just wasn't very good at managing a classroom full of kids. I left teaching and took up cooking. Along the way became a certified Executive Chef, went back to school got another degree in Food Service and then later one in dietetics. I know a lot about food and cooking. Right now I'm teaching convicted criminals in State Correctional facilities how to cook. While we do have a few guys who were involved in food service "On the street", most are new and I spent most of my time teaching the basics. My past involvement and know how about food does come in handy. (And of course without it I'd never have got the job!!) However my biggest challenges are not to do with food. My big challenges have all to do with people management. I at times do wish I could speak Spanish, so that I could communicate with the Spanish speaking inmates. I do wish I had a better understanding of the mindset of the inmates. Please don't tell the Department of Corrections, but at the level I'm teaching, just about anyone with half a brain who can read could do what I'm doing. We (The DOC) does have advanced classes for inmates that seem like they are really interested and might want to pursue a career in food service. Of course someone who has experience or experiences in any given area should be able to do a better job that someone who has only gained their know how from a book. If a unit Scouter wants to know more, we (The BSA) offers training's and if someone wants to specialize in some area and share that specialty with the youth members there are classes out there. A commissioner should be aware of what is available and where it is available. A good commissioner will be able to communicate this to the people he or she is dealing with. I don't like the cold, I have never been to Antarctica but I'm sure if asked I could find out about Boy Scouts of America participation in the National Science Foundation and BSA scientific project to Antarctica, isn't this what a commissioner does? As to the question about "What is a quality program?" Let's be honest!! Unless things are really very ugly? Do we really think a Unit Commissioner is going to change very much? Especially if the adults in the unit don't want to change? Commissioners can offer information, advise, kind words, maybe help calm troubled waters and offer a pat on the back. Some of the very worst commissioners are those who want to bore everyone to death telling war stories about "The good old days" And "How we used to do it, in my day!!" Given the choice I'd sooner see the newbie commissioner, who is willing to learn over the know it all Scouter who has been doing it all wrong for the past number of years. Eamonn.

OK, I just went back and looked at the thread that this was "Spun from" - I'll admit I wasn't following it!! As I have posted in the past. I don't hold out much hope for the future of Commissioner Service as we know it. I think if all of our Commissioners were to wear only one hat? Things would be a lot worse. (Yes I have read what the book has to say!!) I would like to think that we as an organization have room for anyone who meets the BSA requirements. I'm not sure why people do what they do. We who do choose to serve in some way, choose what fits best for us. I get a little annoyed that so many "Program Scouter's" tend to look down on non-program types. I have a good many friends who do a wonderful job of supporting Scouting and never see a Scout. Some are Doctors who just can't take the time or make the commitment. Sure some of them sit on different Boards and are willing to share their treasure in order that Councils can offer youth members bigger and better programs. When I was asked to be District Chair. It had nothing to do with what I knew about the practical side of Scouting, it had a lot more to do with my being a local business person who knew other local businesses and business people. Like it or not Scouting does need and can't run without income. While I'm on my high horse. I have more beads, badges, knots and dingle dangles that any Polish Admiral could ever have. I'm proud of them. Some of them I paid for! Yes I have a James E. West. Some I received for being trained. I never took the training's in order to get the knot. But when the requirements were met? It was my knot. I never asked for a Silver Beaver, I still don't know why I received Vigil Honor? Yes my ego likes the idea that I'm the only person in our Council who has the International Scouter's Award (No I have not as yet placed that knot on a uniform. I sitting here at my computer looking at a good many plaques, certificates and Scout stuff, that over the years has been bestowed upon me. I'm happy to have it. I like to think that I never lost sight about who this organization is for or about. I really enjoy spending time with our youth members, I'm honored that they are willing to spend time with me. I'm aware that some people get along with and work better with adults than they do kids. This doesn't make them "Bad"! We have room at the table for anyone and everyone who is willing to serve and if past service isn't there? We can help them with training's. When the SM lands himself in jail and the unit is falling apart, does it really matter if the Unit Commissioner can tie a turks head? Or does he or she need other skills? Ea. Longhaul, Help me out!! What are you asking??(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

While at this time I'm not a Commissioner. I have spent a lot of time as one and spent a number of years as District Commissioner. "What constitutes a Quality program? " Wow!! I kinda guess a Quality program is like beauty -In the eye of the beholder!! Each of us has our own little quirks, pet peeves, likes and dislikes. Ask the 11 year old Scout and he might tell you how great the program is. But dig a little deeper and find out that the Troop Sod-surfing competition is his favorite activity. Ask Dad and he'll say that the SM really knows what's what -He doesn't go for all that silly uniform stuff. One SM will push the Merit Badge Count, while another might not give a fig about advancement. However all is not lost. The Unit Commissioner Worksheet is a good tool and a great place to start. A couple of suggestions about using it: Never ever, not even once bring it to the Troop meeting!! Leave it in your car and fill it the spaces after the meeting when you are alone, but while everything is still fresh in your mind. You might want to make the people in the unit you serve aware of the Troop Self-Assessment form, if invited you might want to sit in with them as they complete it. Some things might stick out like a sore thumb!! Even if you don't have first hand knowledge or know how. Remember that you are the resourse guy. When you go to the monthly meeting of Commissioners you can ask that someone from the District Committee look in on the unit and offer to help. A unit with no budget, might want to talk to someone from the finance committee? Not Camping? A visit from the Camping and Activities Chair? The big, very big thing is that as a Commish -You are first and foremost a friend of the unit. If you go in and try to be overly judgmental, they will tell you not to bother coming back!! And yes they have every right to do so. Seeing what is going on and slowly working toward fixing problems; using the power of suggestion and offering to help in a kind and cuddly way will work far better then telling them that they are doing things wrong and that their program stinks. Try and get to know the other adults in the unit, not just the youth leaders. Remember if or when things don't go as they should you will be working with these people. Things go better if you know them and they know you. Also Committee meetings tell a lot about what is really happening in the unit. Sometimes visiting a meeting doesn't really tell all that is going on. Some of the Commissioner material on the new DVD's is really good stuff. As District Commissioner, I included some very short trainings as part of out monthly Commissioners meetings. I asked all of the Commissioners to remember that they are a guest and they are there to help- Not judge. Good Luck Go out there and make friends. Eamonn. (If you have the time and the cash go to Philmont for the Commissioner Service Conference. I had a great time.)

What size is the Troop? Ea.