It is all BS, the rules are randomly enforced.
How about the Scouts on National TV appearing on the Platform at the Palin intro in Dayton Ohio during the last presidential election???? Yep right behind the candidates.....What was the penalty, I spoke with the council office and they said they were informed that they were not to remain after the flag presentation. I then asked if they were penalized in some fashion. NO. I asked to speak with the SE who said there would be no penalitys but they were informed of the rules.
A District troop BEGGED and got a Troop trailer for Free. $5200, same one our troop had asked for a discount on. It got mentioned to the DE who did nothing, but what is he gonna do??? I hear they are begging a place that does the plastic wraps to do one for them for free. The funny part is the troop is a wealthy troop.
Just like the Packs who own their own bb guns......who go canoeing.....who go den camping, who rent swimming pools with out lifeguards.
The rules only impact those who chose to abide by them.
FOS is BS too. SE Cry me a river, Driving a donated Jeep commander. It was supposed to have been auctioned off.
Yep this topic has gotten under my skin.
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- Mar 2008
- Jun 2005
Yah, easy there, Basementdweller
I reckon BD is right, though, eh? I reckon the unit money earning application is one of the least used forms in da BSA. And honestly, unless yeh really do somethin' silly, nobody in your council is goin' to mind a unit that gets a discount here and there or wears their scout shirts while helping at the Volunteer Fire Department bake sale.
BD - You betcha.
We continue to ring the bell for Salvation Army. No secret, no problem, probably because we don't touch the kettle. Just ringing the bell and singing Christmas songs, helping others.
Some get in knots about Boy Scouts wearing their uniform while helping their sisters sell Girl Scout cookies, or donating their own time and money to some good cause. Council has to approve each instance. National has to protect the brand while they short-sell it for a buck. Boy those Direct-TV ads in Scouting get me going, why are we associating with such....(unscoutlike words describing a company that has a F rating by Better Business Bureau deleted by RS)
There was a big fundraiser with the Blue Angels up here. Many scouts and scouters helped out. We're still waiting to hear the financial results and what the money will be used for, hopefully not a new headquarters building. Counicl, FOS show us the details, alot of rubber chicken award banquets going on.
Meanwhile we ring the bell for those Salvation Army helps.
"The rules only impact those who chose to abide by them." Well said and true, a nod and a wink.
- Nov 2003
We encourage units to ring bells for the Salvation Army - as representatives of their Chartered Organization. Our SA kettles have a sign at the top which specifies which organization is ringing the bells that session. So instead of Pack/Troop/Crew XXX ringing bells - its signed as X School PTO or Y church, or Lions Club, etc., etc.
- Oct 2010
Aaaargh! I am so sorry that I ever read this thread.
We've been trying to come up with a community service/activity for the holidays. A parent looked into working with the local senior center (small town) but they were not interested (!). Anyhoo, the idea came up of bell-ringing for the SA. Great idea! But a bell also went off in my head...better check on this.
Well, that shoots that idea. Of course, Google "Cub Scouts Salvation Army Bell Ringing" and you'll find it proudly advertised on dozens of Pack calendars. And I'm sure when I break the news to the others they'll say, "Why not? We see this done every year in the area?"
So...I gotta think that this is a rule that's violated more than most others in the program.
I understand the rationale here...the legal types worry about associating Scouting with orgs they can't control so let's throw a blanket over the whole spectrum.
But...Whatever happened to "Do a good turn daily?"
Seriously, sometimes ignorance is bliss. Since becoming CM I've spent more time figuring out "the rules" than working on programs for our boys. And that's a problem.
The so-called "legal" types did not read the Scout Oath - "help other people at all times".
Scouting is about doing what's right, learning to make good judgments. This occasionally does not align with following the rules.
Ring the bell.
Yeah...but then there's the whole "obedient" thing, and I did promise to obey the rules. I'm not sure if it would be "brave" to defy them or not.
It all has me feeling not very "cheerful."
According to my DE, "The boys may help but my not be in uniform as it is not a official boy scout event."
So it looks like we can take an end-run around this if we wish with the official blessing of the district. And I guess if everyone spontaneously decides to wear their uniform for the day, I can't very well tell them to take it off.
All right, I've now put on my flame-retardant suit for the inevitable...
- Jun 2009
So I need to stop asking my neighbor, who manages a lumberyard, for the occasional bucket of scrap wood to use for Webelos projects? All because the SE may call on him for an FOS donation and he would be less inclined to give because of my scraps?
- Nov 2010
Here's an interesting link I found when researching the bell-ringing topic:
About 2/3 of the page down:
"Last year, The Salvation Army and the Boy Scouts Indian Water Council partnered to allow scouts to participate in our Red Kettle Campaign by ringing the bell. Boy Scouts can fulfill requirements for badges and also receive an Official Bell Ringer patch from The Salvation Army. If you are a Scout interested in volunteering, a scout leader or a parent/guardian/grandparent of a scout, please contact....."
- Jun 2004
I agree with Beavah, if it is a cash donation large or small you might set off a red flag however if it is a retailer giving you some surplus goods they no longer want or sell that is not such a big deal. As a DE working on the district corporate campaign there was a coffee company who would donate cofee for our summer camp and council office, it was never asked for but the CEO insisted in filling my car with cases of the stuff whenever he saw me. He was an Eagle scout and a great scouting supporter.
If a large trailer company owner decided to give a troop a trailer without being solicited by that troop there is really nothing the council could do about it. Case in point there was an owner of a chain of sporting good stores who saw that the troop he belonged to as a youth was going through some difficult times, their equipment was sparse and really in bad shape. Without anyone saying anything to him he had one of his trucks loaded up with brand new camping equipment of all kinds, tents, sleeping bags,etc., and had it delivered anonymously to the troop last Christmas. So I guess it is a matter of how the council interprets the rules and more to the point if it affects the councils own corporate FOS campaign donations.
- Nov 2006
Basementdweller said: poo poo the rules all you want. We have a Neighboring Pack that solicits food donations for their blue and gold, very successfully. They get a number of prime ribs and turkeys from the local butcher, a national grocery chain donates the sides or at least the ingredients for the sides. They get a local party house to donate the hall.
National can make all the rules they want, enforcement is impossible. What are the penalties gonna be????
I am growing in the opinion of putting on the best program you can for the boys. I will not violate the safety rules, but fund raising and such.......It is on.
I ask: What ever happened to a Scout is Obedient? or Trustworthy?
I have to wonder what example we set for boys when we live "poo poo the rules" ... or when we decide that since something isn't fairly enforced that we get to decide whether or not to comply? Well, I guess we DO get to decide - we answer for no one's behavior but our own. But I come right back to, what sort of example are we wanting to set for the youth under our leadership?
- Jan 2009
- May 2009
Who exactly gets to decide what rule is just plain wrong? What makes that person's decision more or less questionable than the original rule?
I mentioned this before approach those that establish the rules and petition them for change with a reasoned appeal and perhaps change will occur. Otherwise, I think we should do our best to live within the established guidelines as provided by the Oath and Laws.