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  • Shutdown ?

    Is this board run the the Feds ? I don't remember media mentioning was shutting down to. I missed all the messed up, pre-coffee morning posts today. What's up ?

  • #2
    Because of the congressional charter...scouters get the day off...


    • #3
      You know as Germany is paying for the entire European Union I was half expecting a statement today that Germany would also pay for the US ... ^o^


      • #4
        You do not have to worry about the government shutting down. The President and the Congressmen are still going to get their salary!


        • NeverAnEagle
          NeverAnEagle commented
          Editing a comment
          The court system continues to operate because they receive funding in the form of fines and fees, which have no bearing on whether or not the government is operating. The same is true of the Postal Service (money comes in from stamps, etc.). If the agency has outside funding they are able continuing to operate.

        • NJCubScouter
          NJCubScouter commented
          Editing a comment
          I don't know about that, NeverAnEagle, I just found this page and most of the items suggest that the judiciary is dependent on Congress for funding.

          I do not have the figures, but I suspect that fines and fees are really just icing on the cake and that the bulk of the judiciary's funding comes from the same place as every other part of the federal government.

          That page also tells me something I didn't know: The decision to keep the courts open is only "good" for about 10 business days, and they will do a reassessment on or around October 15. I doubt that the judiciary would ever be completely shut down. People have to be able to file cases because legal rights can be lost if they are not filed by a certain date. Criminal cases need to be tried, because if you have a huge backlog of criminal trials you end up with all kinds of problems (including constitutional ones.) Some civil cases (and many bankruptcy cases) really do require certain kinds of orders to be entered RIGHT NOW. A lot of the rest of it could be put on hold for... I don't know how long. A couple of weeks? Longer than that and it becomes a very big mess. In the shutdown in the 90s I think the federal court system remained completely open the whole time.

        • NeverAnEagle
          NeverAnEagle commented
          Editing a comment
          NJCubScouter: Could be a local deal for the Courts. Maybe limited funding from fee's etc. are why the clerks are working, but the lawyers aren't?

          In the Pacific Northwest the Bonneville Power Administration managed to have carry over funds from last year and are using those to keep their employees on the job, at least for a little while. Other agencies are not so lucky.

          I was still in college when the shut-down happened under Clinton, so I can't offer any comparisons.

      • #5
        yup, salary AND healthcare ;-) ...


        • #6
          Saw a cartoon the other day it had a minuteman and he had an elephant dressed and donkey both dressed in suits by the scruff of the neck and the caption was.....I have had enough of you two.


          • #7
            Must be a bummer to be formally labelled as "non-essential" in your job.


            • SR540Beaver
              SR540Beaver commented
              Editing a comment
              Heard a business owner on a local talk radio program say yesterday that he doesn't understand the non-essential thing. He said that he only hires essential staff. If they are non-essential, he doesn't hire them.

            • NeverAnEagle
              NeverAnEagle commented
              Editing a comment
              Non-essential means no one will die if I don't show up.

              Timber sales on National Forest land have stopped; if you asked a mill owner he'd say the guy who authorizes the sale is essential, yet no one dies if the foresters don't go to work, hence they are not working right now.

              Ironically the USDA labeled food inspectors non-essential, so don't eat any eggs or spinach as there is no one to watch for Salmonella or ecoli. I guess they are letting the private health care sector worry about the "you might die" bit.
              Last edited by NeverAnEagle; 10-02-2013, 03:58 PM.

          • #8
            Watching the evening news..... Gotta Laugh here. So you have millionaire Tea Party congress men and women telling them to hold their pay checks till the shut down ends...

            Shaking my head......That is a whole lot different than the janitor making $20 an hour and no savings account.


            • #9
              I work for the Department of the Navy and was sent home without pay. I can afford to miss a few days of salary, but we are supposed to close on a new home at the end of the month. Getting a little nervous now.


              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                My comment wasn't aimed at the ordinary Joe.....but the fat cats on the hill that have more in their checking account than I will retire on .....

                Making a sacrifice generally means giving up something that is important.

                Money to these folks means little

            • #10
              Hope things work out for you Papadaddy.. You hear things that make you hope a quick settlement is close at hand, then you hear stuff that say no one is ready to give in.. Either republicans have to give it up with nothing.. Or the Democrats need to throw them a small bone so they can save face.

              The most promise I saw was this one video that was with two Republicans ready to refund government and back down.. So, they are not the ones in the lead.. But they were asked if they would deal on the funding of the Government AND not pulling this again on the Deficit if the Democrats offered them a trade in the Medical Device tax (from what I read there is already some agreement on that change).. Those two wanted a way out.. They were just looking for some bone thrown so they could save face (or perhaps it was more that the more radical elements of their party could save face.) and get out of the whole mess..

              Again, don't know if it would not out the 30-40 house reps & Ted Cruise that are the only ones calling the shots.. And it meant the Dems had to take pity and throw the bone.. Dems I know wouldn't do it just for a 6 week fund the government.. But they might if they could also disarm the threat of Reps trying to take the Deficit fight as a new hostage.. That might be large enough to let them deal something..

              But who knows.. It sounded like a great idea, but none of the people talking was a lead person who could start the wheel rolling.

              All I can say is really, really stupid.. Never should of happened, and I hope for you and lots of others in your position, this is short lived.


              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                SR540, i find it a real stretch to claim the republicans want to cut the little guys taxes. The vast majority of any tax cuts they propose go to the top. I think about that EVERY time I go to the ballot box.

              • Twocubdad
                Twocubdad commented
                Editing a comment
                Moose -- I have no idea what you're trying to say. If one member of the Bull Moose party is elected to Congress it is his/her obligation to vigorously represent the voters elected him or her. The argument that those oppose to the ACA should just "get over it" is specious.

                The shut down isn't costing the government $300M a day, the story was (if you can believe it) it is costing the economy $300M a day. That's the equivalent of the change in the truck arm rest compared to a $16T economy. Heck, it's small change compared to the $10 BILLION we senp a day or the $2.5 billion we borrow daily. One would hope furloughing 800,000 "non-essential" employees would save a dollar or two. Funny, in my industry we have another word for non-essential employees -- UNEMPLOYED.

              • Papadaddy
                Papadaddy commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for the well wishes, Moose. This morning the House voted unanimously to pay us anyway, and shortly thereafter DOD employees were ordered back to work Monday. I guess the Administration figures if they can't cause us pain, they aren't going to give us any more free days off. I will have a long memory, however, come Election Day.

            • #11
              Sad how this makes the US Goverment look outside the states, on the news in other countries.
              Super Power Shutdown - maybe not the best thing.
              All because of a handfull of extremist nutbags it seems.
              But the german news picked up on the fact that one of the screwballs responsible was also one to open a memorial in front of cameras - schizo much?


              • Papadaddy
                Papadaddy commented
                Editing a comment
                Berliner, Grusse! It's because of "extremist nutbags" that our country gained independence from British tyranny in 1781. And a lot of us are willing to do it again, if necessary.

            • #12
              Problem of course is that the ACA was rammed through congress using budget reconciliation instead of actually getting the votes to pass the bill. This was done as a parliamentary maneuver by the Obama administration because he lost his 60-vote filibuster proof majority in the Senate the fall before when Brown was elected to fill Kennedy's seat. Rather than fight he used a process designed to cut the budget deficit to expand it dramatically. Some may call that good politics, some will call it Executive over-reach, some will call it a handful of extremist nutbags pushing an agenda.

              As for the thought the republicans are being cornered into their "bright red distracts [sic]" you might want to look at the 2010 and 2012 elections. In 2008 the Democrats held 61 seats in the Senate and 256 in the house. In the next congress that went to 56/193 and in the next 51/200. In the President's home state a Republican was elected to take the President's old Senate seat. Don't forget that the folks in the congress are actually elected by the people, not the electoral college. The mid-terms next year will be interesting.

              As for folks in Europe worrying about the US, meh. Maybe they should be worried about the collapse of the socialist economy in Greece (and Portugal and Spain and others). Maybe the US should be weary of traveling that same road.


              • moosetracker
                moosetracker commented
                Editing a comment
                You lost your arguement with "60-vote filibuster".. If 51 members of the Senate were for it.. It's perfectly a legal manover to me to find a way around an forced 60 vote tactic.

              • berliner
                berliner commented
                Editing a comment
                Except that the european debt crisis has nothing to do with a socialist economy but problems with a free and uncontrolled banking market ...

                If the US can afford all these wars it should be easy as to fund healthcare. I really dont understand why the US doesnt have it yet. Being social is not necessarily socialist.

              • dcsimmons
                dcsimmons commented
                Editing a comment
                The government could no longer borrow enough money to make their payroll.......Call it what you will.

                As for the filibuster, that's a simple Senate rule. It can be changed by a simple majority vote at any time in the Senate. You should call Reid to get the rules changed before they make an end-run around them.

            • #13
              I have in the past posted a quote from one of my favorite bartenders.
              One night when I was upset about something or someone she said "Take plenty of no notice."
              There have been times when after looking at all options. - This has been the one that worked best.

              While the media seems to want to scare everyone and seems to like telling us how we all are facing nothing but doom and gloom.
              The truth seems to be that no one is taking that much notice.
              It's a lot like having a box of fireworks that have got damp.
              You light the fuse wait for the big bang and ....
              Nothing happens.

              This national trend of "Taking plenty of no notice."
              Started with all the forecasts of doom and gloom.
              Which were supposed to start at the beginning of this new millennium.
              If ever there was a case of scaremongering, the Y2K problem, the Millennium bug ,was scaremongering gone wild.
              I had friends who stockpiled bottled water, gas and emptied their checking accounts.
              Others rushed out to buy generators. Believing that they were prepared for the worst.
              Some were really upset when nothing happened.

              Just recently the sequester was supposed to bring a lot of things to a grinding halt.
              While maybe it did? In some places. But here in rural PA?
              It was business as usual.
              The government may have closed down but the Dow went up over 60 points?
              NBC news last night had a story about a group of WWII vets who had traveled from afar to visit the WWII Memorial.
              When they arrived the memorial was fenced in and guarded by a Park Ranger (Wonder who is paying her?)
              These old timers really are from the Greatest Generation.
              They very well might have been upset? I don't know.
              But from what I seen they were taking it all very much in their stride. Maybe taking plenty of no notice?
              Maybe because NBC was there with cameras rolling? - But it wasn't long till the fences were open and these brave and gallant old timers were enjoying the memorial that honors them and their fallen friends.

              A few years back the Governor and State House of PA Were at loggerheads. Unable to pass a budget.
              I was deemed an essential worker and had to go to work.
              But I wasn't essential enough to get paid till things got sorted.
              It wasn't that much of a big deal for me. But some of my co-workers who live from check to check., were finding it hard.
              My hope is that everyone who is laid off or isn't getting paid, will be OK.

              My guess is than in less than a week this budget thing will all be sorted.
              Then the media can get to work scaring the heck out of us all when the guys in DC fight over the debt ceiling.
              Which will once again be ignored by a lot of people,
              Who if they have any sense will be busy enjoying an adult beverage and taking plenty of no notice.


              • #14
                It got the votes. It passed. Its been upheld by the Supreme Court. We've had a presidential election since then, and the president was reelected.

                If the House wants to repeal it, go ahead and keep taking meaningless votes. If the House wants the Senate to act on any of those proposals, then they better be willing to offer something in return. What has the House offered?

                If the Democratic Senate or the President allows the Republican House to put policy/program demands into continuing resolutions, what will happen when the next continuing resolution comes up? In two weeks when the "Debt Limit" will be reached, what will be the demand made to keep the nation from defaulting, a national abortion ban?


                • moosetracker
                  moosetracker commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Don't forget Fehler this isn't even funding the government for a full year, but only something for a 6 weeks extension, so Congress can sit down an negotiate on the real budget.. Something the Senate passed in May and has asked for 18 times for a meeting on.. Republican house refused to negoitate in those 6 month so that they could get this show down.. So if Dems cave to such extreme demands to a 6 week extension, you have got not only the Debt limit but the real funding bill..

                  Nope let republicans tank in the polls for both independents and moderate Republicans.. Kill the support (and donations) they have received from Wall street who are already turning their backs on them.. It is just a question of how much they will set the economic recovery back and get the anger of the whole country and then if they start threatening the debt ceiling the whole world, before they come to their senses..

                • Pack18Alex
                  Pack18Alex commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Can I point out the MINOR issue that to invoke Cloture, the Democrats in Massachusetts bypassed the required public notice period to pass a new law letting the governor appoint a replacement Senator (most states do this as normal, when Romney was Governor, the Massachusetts legislature changed the law for special elections). The legislature let the governor appoint a replacement, he voted to invoke cloture, and the bill was passed. It was then "fixed" via reconciliation after Brown was elected.

                  But the Massachusetts Democratic Party passed a law in Massachusetts in violation of the legislative rules for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to send a temporary Senator to DC to pass the ACA before the elected official, elected by campaigning as the 41st vote to stop ACA, and they rammed it through anyway with reconciliation.

                  Nothing about how ACA was passed was "normal" or "got the votes," it was all with parliamentary trickery.

                  Which is part of why there is so much anger.

                  I'm actually impressed the GOP is not making it about abortion, that's what they normally do in these situations.

                • moosetracker
                  moosetracker commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Well, they are coming up with a whole new list on their wish list for the "debt ceiling".. The personhood bill was discussed.. Won't be surprised if it comes up attached to something before the end of the month..

              • #15
                And Norm Coleman in MN refused to concede a 300 vote loss to Al Franken until every court had their say, dragging it out until July 2009. And Arlen Spector in PA switched parties in April 2009. And the guy appointed to complete Obama's Senate in IL term bought his seat (allegedly) from crooked Governor Rod Blagoevich (Burris was cleared of any wrongdoing). And, as you said, Ted Kennedy died, and a change was made in the Senatorial Appointment laws to prevent a 5-month vacancy.

                Even if what your saying it correct (and I don't grant you that fact), you claim that if the heavily Democratic MA legislature followed proper public disclosure laws (which I'm not convinced that they didn't), it would have prevented the the law from passing, and Kirk's appointment, in the window of time between Kennedy's death ant Brown's swearing in ceremony? How long of a public notice period are we talking here?

                The ACA passed. Normal. Laws and rules were followed. Lots of things get passed under reconciliation (even health care: that's what the "R" in "COBRA" stands for). Even the "Deem and Pass" procedure is legal. The issue is settled.