BOR scout can't answer questions....

[MollieDuke]

Recently, I was on a BOR where a scout was asked this question: "What was your favorite part of the XXX merit badge you did for Star? It had been signed off very recently, so he should have been able to answer this question, I thought. Anyhow, this scout said he couldn't remember much about this badge and hedged this question. I'm rather new to this BOR stuff, so I left it up to the others although there was quite a discussion over it. The basic feeling was that since it was signed off, and we cannot retest, we had to let it go. Being a "good mommy" I went home and asked my son if he's ever not been able to answer such a question and his answer was "Well, of course not. I did the stuff, so I should know what I did, right?"

 

This didn't seem like an unfair question, since it just infered to the "fun" of the badge. I just wonder how you all may have handled a similar situation. I hope this child doesn't go to his Eagle BOR and "freeze" or whatever if they ask a similar question. Makes one wonder if he really "did" the badge, though and looks bad. Should we, as adult leaders, provide advice for being the child at a BOR especially for the younger set? I'm sure it's a little unnerving for some kids to be in front of a BOR sometimes.

 

Just a thought.

MollieD

[SemperParatus]

I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday.

 

Some people are blessed with a great memory, some are not. While it would be nice to think that every scout can remember every requirement that they did for a merit badge and discern which were his favorite requirements and which were not, I don't think you can expect that in every case.

 

Recognizing this, perhaps a better question would have been something like, "I know for the XXX merit badge, you had to do a project that entails XXXX, what did you do? What do you think you learned from that project? Looking back, do you think you could have done the project differently? Are there other projects you considered? Was this one of your favorite parts of that merit badge? Why or why not?" That way, you may be able to ease the scout into remembering what he did rather than posing a question that requires instant memory and discernment. It may be that the scout had no favorite part of doing that merit badge and so he was completely honest in not having an answer. Taking it as a 'freeze' on his part may not be an appropriate conclusion.

 

I am sure some scouts would have an answer right away, others may require a little assistance in drawing out an answer.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Mollie - Great question. It's been discussed before. It's a difficult thing to understand - reviewing but not retesting. I believe you probably made the right decision.

 

In the past, we've had scouts go into a total vapor lock during a BOR. Usually, this happens at an early one (Tenderfoot or 2nd Class). Once, a boy couldn't remember the first point of the Scout Law after they reminded him it started "A Scout is...". In extreme cases, such as the this one I mentioned, the BOR asked him to relax, review the basics and come back the next week. He did, and passed fine.

 

In your situation, the boy may have just been nervous as well. These things happen. Or, perhaps even though the MB was signed off recently, maybe most of the work was done over a year ago. Or maybe he really didn't enjoy it that much and doesn't remember much about it.

 

In the end, he probably grew from the discomfort of not knowing an answer for soemthing he should have known. We've all been there - at school, at work, etc. He'll hopefully be better prepared next time.

[OldGreyEagle]

One of the methods of scouting is adult association, and while the merit badge program is often thought of the center piece to this method, the Board of Review is also a very important component. The scout discusses his behavior, succcesses and failures (or areas of potential, depending on your semantics). Some scouts take to it right away, others are never really comfortable with the process, but all learn from it. I have heard it said many college interviewers can spot an Eagle by the ease he handles the interview, he has talked to an adult before about his hopes and goals. If there is a question the scout did the work, check with the merit badge counselor. The troop may wish to have non-advancement boards of review for the truly terrfied to get them comfortable talking to adult with nothing on the line.

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

I'm with OGE here. You know, the BOR has been blurry concept ever since they took it from the scouts way back when. I've seen the "R" word (retest) make adults run in fear of their lives. I've also heard the question "What was your favorite part of the XXX merit badge?" asked a hundred times at EBORs and I think it's just about as safe a question as one could ask in this environment.

 

If the idea of the BOR is taking a sample of the Scouts experience to check on the program, well maybe this is a flag. I might check with the MB couselor. Hopefully it is just a nervous scout or a bad memory and there is some good advice on that as well.

 

Barry

[Eamonn]

I agree that any BOR should not be used for the R word.

I use BOR to see how good a job we are doing. If enough Scouts say the same thing about something good or bad. I take this back and analyze what I have heard.

Could it be that the Scout in this case had no idea what you were talking about because the Counselor never covered that requirement? This wouldn't be the Scouts fault. But might raise a red flag about the adult in charge.

Eamonn.

[isvirtual]

I attended a NESA day with my troop last year. This is a district event where NESA teaches a bunch of Eagle required badges for any scouts in the district.

 

I sat through the emergency preparedness presentation to approximately 40 scouts. While waiting patiently for my turn to help out, I noticed some older scouts in the back of the gym playing games on their cell phone. One played while another 3-4 watched. All of them completely ignored the counsellor.

 

After a couple of minutes I went over and sat behing the scouts. I asked them if they felt they were earning their Eagle required merit badge. Rather than answer they moved to another part of the gym.

 

I hope I recognize these boys when I'm conducting their Eagle BOR. I would certainly walk them through the part about a scout is trustworthy, kind, and obedient. Unfortunately, I don't think this will happen.

 

In a program where we have this many scouts listening to a single counsellor, it is logical that some are not going to pay rapt attention. Our hope is they are exposed to the information and they at least learn where to look it up if they need it. I don't think it is the optimal method for teaching a skill. Yet, I do belive this approach competes well with sports, band, and the fumes.

[KoreaScouter]

I've had Scouts struggle at their SM conferences, mainly because some requirements were completed months ago, and they just couldn't recall what they did or where they did it (which hike was the 5-miler? Which campout did I lash the device, and what the heck was it?). I always recommend to EVERY Scout before his BOR, to completely review the section of his handbook that covers the rank he's going for, and the requirements for the MBs he used to fill that requirement too, if it's Star or above -- to refresh his memory. I've only had one Scout in my experience completely melt down at his SM Conference -- I met with him again a couple weeks later to make sure he was ready for a BOR; he did fine.

 

I'm not sure where my truck is parked right now; how can I expect a 13-year old boy to remember what food he bought for a campout six months ago? You know, it's real easy for a group of adults to win a game of "Stump the Dummy" with an adolescent boy. Fortunately, I don't see that happening with ours, and I hope it's extremely rare everywhere else, too.

 

KS

[John D]

I would bet isvirtual is closest to the mark on this one. How can a scout be expected to remember anything about a badge he "earned" at a MB mill? The idea of presenting useful content of a critical MB to 40 kids at once is absurd, they won't retain a thing. Each required badge should represent a body of work done by a scout, alone or in a small group, with a counselor he knows, at a meeting he has helped arrange, not in a college lecture hall.

If the lecture to 40 kids is acceptable, why not video it and put it on line? Then kids can watch it at home, check a few boxes on a form, no counselor, no making an appointment, no hassle. In most cases a scout who has put forth a legitimate effort has no trouble remembering a high point or two, it's not a "what did you have for breakfast last week" type of question, and quite apprepriate for BOR. If we can't ask this, the BOR doesn't amount to much.

[MollieDuke]

I asked my son again how he prepares for a BOR, and he told me he goes over all the requirements that have been signed off, checks his paperwork, reviews what he did and all that. When I asked him how he knew to do that, he said, he had heard an adult tell a boy this and it made sense to him. I guess that's why he never "froze" plus he is not at all nervous talking with an adult or group of adults. After asking him all this, he asked me why was I asking. I told him that this was merely a topic on this board (not that I started it) and he said that maybe they should put that into a program for the new boys. He'd talk to the SM about it. He said he'd hate to see any of his friends have that problem because it would be embarrassing. Thanks for helping as usual. You all are great!

MollieD

[AwHeck]

I had an interesting situation somewhat similar to this. It was at summer camp and I was leading a BOR for a scout to earn First Class. One question that I like to ask at First Class BORs is something to ensure that the scout will ensure another scout knows the skills being demonstrated before signing off in the book and not just signing off because "he's my friend." The scout correctly answered this question but I followed with "why?" - honestly, all I wanted was for the scout to say that a "Scout is Trustworthy" - he was stumped. I tried leading him, no go... I asked about the Scout Law and his response was "I don't know the scout law." I could see in the eyes of the other adults the same thought... we asked a couple more questions then dismissed him as usual to discuss whether to grant the rank. All the board members were in agreement that we could not grant First Class rank to a scout who admitted to not knowing the Law. When we called him back, we expressed our concerns and told him that if he could come back to me before the end of summer camp (2 more days) and could tell me, from memory, the Scout Oath and Scout Law then we'd grant the rank. It definitely shocked him and the rest of his patrol that we'd actually deny/delay a rank but his buddies helped him study and the next evening he came up to me, recited the Oath and Law, and received his rank.

 

In my view, not knowing the Law and going for First Class is MUCH different from not being able to remember particulars about a certain merit badge but there ARE times when a BOR has to make the decision to delay granting rank.

[Trevorum]

awheck,

I agree with the way you handled the situation. In such cases, BoRs in our troop have been known to "adjourn" until a later date agreed upon by all. The scout is directed to correct a specific weakness before the BoR "reconvenes". Sometimes the adjournment lasts for a day or two (as in your case) but on occasion it has been known to last for a month or more.

[Torveaux]

I don't think I would equate asking "What was your favorite part..." to asking about a specific particulars. If the merit badge in question was earned in a manner other than sitting in a lecture hall waiting to get 'signed off', then a boy should be able to at least indicate a portion of the requirements. My 8 year old could easily do that for any his Bear requirements, (as could his peers) so I would expect an 11-14 year old Star Scout to be able to come up with something memorable about a merit badge. This is not like retesting, this is about seeing if the program is working.

 

I am worried about the program in general as I read things like boys earning merit badges for attending a lecture. This type of non-performance does the opposite of what I see as the ideals of Scouting.

[FScouter]

AwHeck -

I agree every Scout ought to be able to recite the Scout Law. And I agree that there are times when the Board should turn down the Scout.

 

Consider another approach to turning down the advancement. Let the boy come to his own conclusion that he is not ready for the rank. "Son, are you having a little trouble with the Scout Law?" "Do you think a First Class Scout should have a good understanding of the Scout Law, and be able to recite it?" "Are you as qualified for this rank as you should be?"