Hazing

[insanescouter]

We got back a week ago from summer camp, at which we had a bad problem with hazing. I was wondering if anyone knew of a video similar to a time to tell or drugs a deadly game that we could show them. The problems were both with in the Troop and involved another Troop too. Also if anyone has any ideas on how we can farther deal with this issue, I would be interested in your ideas too. Thanks...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[Stosh]

I do a SM Minute on the subject once a year (when the new Webelos boys come on the scene) and put everyone on notice that if it happens those who haze will be out of the troop immediately, no questions asked. Everyone is entitled to a safe place to be and the troop is one of those places.

 

So far no one has ever challenged me on the issue so I don't ever have to deal with it.

 

Using the servant leadership style of everyone caring for each other (especially PL's of NSP's and TG's) has also gone a long way to remedy the urge to haze.

 

Stosh

[Twocubdad]

I have a parent who feels we should spend a half-hour a week on anti-bullying training or at least make it one of our monthly themes. (Of course her kid is one of the worst offenders I have.) I spent a fair bit of time looking for appropriate resources for a troop program. I hope you hae better luck than I did.

 

Ultimately we developed our own program in which several of the adults act out instances of hazing. We tried to act out subtle things that the Scouts may not consider hazing. For example one of the skits acted out behavior which may be appropriate kidding and joking among friends and peers could be taken as hazing if the same behavior was targeted toward a younger or weaker boy. I think we had three or four skits.

 

The skits were much more effective that just talking and even the mom said afterwards that it was a really good program.

 

Somewhere I have the scripts. I'll try to find them and PM them to you or maybe post a synopsis, if you're interested.

 

[insanescouter]

Twocubdad if you don't mind I would love to see the scripts and I am sure others here would like to see them too.... Thanks...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

 

[NeilLup]

Hello Twocubdad,

 

I'd welcome the opportunity to see them too.

 

I would note two resources on bullying.

 

One is the BSA unit of supplemental training on bullying:

 

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/TrainingModules.aspx

 

These is both an hour long training and a power point presentation.

 

The other is the material on the TF/2ndC/1stC videos on bullying:

 

http://www.scouting.org/applications/rankvideo.aspx

 

They aren't exactly hazing, but are a very close cousin.

[Eagledad]

First of all, how do you define hazing to the scouts? I think that is a very important question and one that should be answered in one sentence so the scouts have a clear understanding of it.

 

One of the problems I see with adults today is they don't really understand a good definition and end up classifying just about any act that offends them under hazing. I once saw a leader jump on the camp staff for singing happy birthday to a scout that wasn't even in her unit. She didn't know the scout and didn't even ask him how he felt about being sung to, she just called it hazing. Why, because to her being singled out in anything is hazing.

 

We define hazing for our scouts as: when a person is forced to participate in something they dont want to participate in.

 

Under that definition, there isnt a list of actions that are classified as hazing; it is instead the person feelings toward your actions that are taken into account. The BSA suggests that holding a Cub Scout up-side-down while getting his Bobcat is hazing. Yet, I have never met a boy who didn't want to receive his badge in that manner. Personally I think the BSA has only added to the confusion of hazing. It would have been much less controversial and more reasonable to just state that holding a boy up-side-down is not permitted because the risks of permanent physical harm to the Scout.

 

We want scouts to practice serving others by using the scout law and oath and not by someone elses list of things they can and cannot do. There is no list of hazing in the scout law, just the promise to serve others by being friendly, courteous and kind. If the person doesnt feel you are being friendly, courteous and kind, then the scout must consider their actions toward that person and stop, whatever that action is. Practice a definition that doesnt define specific actions, but instead reacting to the feelings of the other person. Teach scouts to take ownership of the well being of others. Encourage them to practice being servants.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[skeptic]

Interesting comment regarding positive actions towards others. One of the things that has always impressed me is the logic behind the wording of the Scout Law. It is a positive statement: "A Scout Is", not a scout does not. It assumes the best from the boy rather than dictates against something. Properly reinforced, this becomes a very good lever for responsible action and self pride.

Hazing, as noted, is difficult to define; and what a small minority calls hazing, is often thought of as simply good fun amongst friends in many cases. Brings us back to making rational decisions based on valid concerns, rather than reaction to inuendo or hear-say. For example, most boys always enjoyed snipe hunts, and even the so called victims generally not only had fun, but look(ed) back on their first one with amusement and laughter. But, it was important that the leaders made it clear that a boy was not "forced" to participate. That is where the line may have been crossed in some cases. That is where the vigilance is so important; we need to let "boys be boys", so to speak. Yet we also need to be the silent guardians, ready to step in when necessary, either directly in a severe case, or by pulling boy leaders aside and doing a bit of counseling in regard to an observation.

IMO, much of the apparent paralysis we are beginning to see in many youth when confronted with unfamiliar or discomforting situations is that we have skewed the natural learning curve of growing up. Just my thoughts at the moment.

[NeilLup]

As I think back on hazing, there as another factor that distinguished hazing from some other activities that are, in my opinion, far more sinister.

 

In hazing, as I remember it, one typically wanted to become a member of some group. As part of the joining experience, hazing occurred, possibly to determine that you were "tough" enough to join or whatever. However, when you passed the hazing, and you joined, THE HAZING STOPPED. In fact, you probably got to haze other people as they wanted to join.

 

In contrast, in bullying or other such activities, there is a continuous power play between the bully and the victim. It never ends and never results in the victim joining the group. Or, in some particularly sinister forms, the victim thinks that they have joined but then receives a particularly evil trick. Think of the movie "Carrie."

[evmori]

In hazing, as I remember it, one typically wanted to become a member of some group. As part of the joining experience, hazing occurred, possibly to determine that you were "tough" enough to join or whatever. However, when you passed the hazing, and you joined, THE HAZING STOPPED. In fact, you probably got to haze other people as they wanted to join.

 

Based on this, the OA ordeal is hazing!

[NeilLup]

There are those who would so define it, Ev.

 

It used to involve a lot more activities that could be called "hazing."

 

There are also those who might call two-a-day practices for a football team "hazing."

 

The dictionary definition is:

 

"subjection to harassment or ridicule."

 

Hopefully the OA ordeal does not involve ridicule. Whether it represents harassment or not may be in the eye of the beholder. I am sure that the BSA legal staff has carefully reviewed the Ordeal activities.

[Twocubdad]

I think the scripts are on another computer. I'll have to dig, but will try to get them for you.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a perfect definition of hazing, but the one I use, which the boys seem to understand, is that hazing is having fun, making a joke, or making yourself seem important at another guy's expense.

 

Snipe hunting is the perfect example. If everyone is in on the joke and having a good time, it's okay by me if the whole troop wants to stand on their head in the dark and yell "Sipe" all night. But if the point is to make a goat of the kid who's not in on it, then it's hazing.

 

Invariably, I get, "Aw, geez. It's no fun if everybody's in on the joke." Right, then don't do it.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[PeteM]

Hazing and Youth Protection are the reasons that the OA tap-out has been toned down to simply reading off names off of a list and asking if they want to be an Arrowman.

[evmori]

If that were the case, PeteM, the entire ordeal would have been changed.

[FScouter]

It was more because of the deaths that were occurring from the punch-out ceremony.

[Eagledad]

>>If that were the case, PeteM, the entire ordeal would have been changed.