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this is a young man......


I think a lot of him, irregardless of his choices.


I find it interesting that everyone is focusing on what the coach said...... Did the coach actually say it???? I don't know. did the scout make it up???? Was it something his peers said to him????


Nothing will come of finger pointing.....


But what would be the cost to my spl if I go talk to the coach now???? Bet he never sees a game. I won't do that to him.


I will how ever put on my calendar to go speak with the principle, athletic director and coach named after the season is over.


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Basement, my good friend (who has busted my chops on many occasions), please don't take this Scout leaving personally. Years from now this scout will look back on his time with you and the troop with great fondness. He will understand that he benefited from your program. And one day he will thank you. I know this because I was just like your scout. At 16 I decided that it was more important to hang out with my new friends at the local volunteer fire department instead of going to troop meetings. It was more important to me to take fire training on weekends instead of going camping. But it all worked out. I ended up going to college, becoming a paramedic, getting a job in a large fire department, having a great career, helped a lot of people, and now I'm enjoying retirement. By the way the last merit badge I earned, Firemanship. See how it all works out.


You care, you're a good leader, you give everything and sometimes it feels like you get dumped on. It goes with the job so put on your big boy pants and get back to the kids that need you! ;)


As for your other questions:

No I don't pay out of pocket for scouts to go camping. We have a fund and the CC and COR decide who gets help. I stay out of that, I don't even want to know who gets assistance.


I don't know how to deal with band and sports coaches. All my ASMs and myself are all fire, police or military and most are Eagles so the boys and parents can see what Scouting can do for a boy. Interesting that my COR has 3 boys, all Eagles and all working for the same department I retired from. They were all asked extensively about being Eagles during their interview, as was I, 30 years ago.


We're not too far from the Naval Academy where I've heard that 75% of male cadets are Eagles. Wonder what percentage of Cadets played football in high school?


Good luck.







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Eagle732. maybe you will see one of my eagles who is attending a camp at the USNA this summer. He wants to get into nuclear engineering of some sort, and the USNA is a top school for it. My son, on the other hand is looking at the USMA--doesn't like the boats but thinks all this hiking and camping and getting paid for it and going to school for it would be ok. (Oh how he will learn)


But, to basement, I think your idea of waiting until the season is over is the right thing to do. BTW, are any of your scouts on the same team, same school, etc. Maybe they can give you a little insight.


I have had so many employees that I thought were the bright and shining star for the future, only to have them tell me their plans were different than what we had thought. Some wanted a change of career. Some found it to stressful. One said thanks for the added responsibility, but I really want less so I can go fishing more ???? (New generation)


You invest your time and effort because (1) it helps the boy, but, (2) because it serves as a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment for yourself as well. If you did all you could do, you should be happy with yourself. "If you love them, set them free"


Probably not what you want to hear, but, look at the positives--He manned up and told you in person. He could have just sent a text. And, i am sure you saw him grow because of your time with him. That should be a sense of pride.

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I'm not anti-sports, I just have never really cared that much about them. My son played little league baseball for 4 years and basketball for about 3 years and I assisted. I always looked for the opportunity to teach him life lessons I saw in sports. I can honestly say though that the years he spent in scouting far outweighed anything he got out of sports. As Eagle732 said about Naval Academy cadets, the Eagles far outweigh the football players. While sports and physical activity is a good thing, the chance at going from high school sports to college sports and then to professional sports in astronomically small. Even for the kids who drop out of scouting, a merit badge here or a campout there could spark an interest that changes the direction of their life. Any time in the program reinforces the oath and law and helps them to be better persons over all. While I have nothing against the kid who gets MVP in a game or season, I'll take a kid making Eagle Scout over that any day of the week.

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OK, Basementdweller, so let's review: You are now disenchanted with three things that have nothing to do with Scouting as Baden-Powell and Green Bar Bill understood it:


1) SPL: a) Elected by the whole Troop, b) every six months, c) to boss the Patrol Leaders around; and d) appoint ASPLs to, e) boss the other PORs around, and f) boss the Patrol Leaders around in the SPL's absence; and g) appoint Troop Guides to take the Patrol Leaders' primary job away from them, and h) vote with the SPL and his appointed ASPLs to, i) boss the Patrol Leaders around in the PLC.


2) NYLT: Office management theory for kids (see a-i, above). :)


3) Summer Camp: a) anti-Patrol Method, b) Merit Badge summer school.


"How do you find balance?"


Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Accept that "Modern Scouting's" anti-"Real" Patrol Method is here to stay, but put your time and energy into promoting the Traditional Scouting programs in your Troop: Backpacking and Canoe.


Create a Troop sub-culture of outdoorsmen whose great Scouting passion is to camp out of a backpack or canoe.




Boy Scouts who long to cover eight miles a day with a pack on their backs or a paddle in their hands, live the Scout Law differently than those who don't.


Yours at 300 feet,




(This message has been edited by Kudu)

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Have to wonder if the coach, assuming he actually said that or something akin to it, is aware that two Eagle Scouts recently played in a Superbowl, one on each team. A little digging, probably in the same school, will likely dig up a number of scouts that also are starters on some team, or high level performers in other one on one competitions. I have had two water polo captains ( one who also was student body president at the same time while graduating 5th out of about 800 and getting a full academic scholarship), a number of CIF level wrestlers, though they eventually did quit due to their own decisions, but still in high school, and have sat on a number of Eagle boards of scouts from other units who were high level athletes in local high schools. But, have also had my share dropping out due to sports and peer pressure.


Glad to hear BD say he will not speak to anyone at the school until after the season, so not to hurt the young man's chances.


Took me almost ten years to really understand we do not win them all. But, sometimes, we win some of which we are unaware and find out down the line. Have had the privilege of that a few times.


Keep doing it with the right ideas in mind. Take a break if needed, but please do not give it up all together.

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Basement, I hear ya. But long view is important.


If the scout knows he's welcome back, he may very well show up at a scout meeting after football season is over. Or perhaps before the season is over.


Did he feel overwhelmed by SPL responsibilities, school and football? Perhaps he felt scouting was the easiest to let go for awhile.


Kudu: Your anti-SPL position has always confused me a bit. It seems like you, as an adult, are performing the duties that the SPL is supposed to do. True?


PS Any time I hear an adult bash the SPL position, 9 times out of 10 that adult is really the "boss of the PLs."(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

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While I'm rambling a bit here, a thought about sports.


Some folks like sports, others don't. I happen to like sports.


For the folks that want to compete, I believe it is vital they do so at the highest level they can achieve, and for as long as they are able. Until they physically can't take the field, or the desire is gone or fulfilled, nothing else will be a suitable substitute for that drive to compete in their particular sport.


I think it's important for scouters to realize this dynamic, and let the scout know their drive to excell will serve them well as a scout, and benefit the movement overall. Great role models. Same is true for those that pursue academic honors. Or both.


We should never stifle that desire to achieve, be it in scouting or elsewhere.


Basement, not suggesting that is the dynamic in the case at hand, but I've seen it elsewhere.

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Kudu.....Remove the title he was still a great scout.....



In speaking with the SM this evening we have lost "a number of scouts" to this football coach over the years.......There have been three since my arrival.....The COR can name 20 boys....which means the numbers are probably many more than that.....


I now have a better understanding as to why our troop never has boys over 14 years old........he is the middle school football coach.


with the additional information


I think the COR, SM, Possibly the DC should pay the principle, athletic director and Coach a visit.



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desertrat77: No.


Maybe you are thinking that the "chain of command" is SM --> SPL --> PL?


In GBB's "Real" Patrol Method, the Patrol Leaders hire and fire the SPL, so the "chain of command" is PL --> SPL.


Whenever I hear an adult identify his Troop's most talented leaders to be SPL + ASPL + ASPL, + TG, 9 times out of 10 that adult does not allow his Patrol Leaders to conduct significant Patrol Hikes without "adult association," or even camp 300 feet apart. :)


The point I'm making to Basementdweller is: Put his energy into getting his Troop's outdoorsmen out on the backwoods trails and waterways, where the real outdoor leaders are.


Yours at 300 feet,




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Basement, as others mentioned, I think there is merit in the SM talking to the coach. He could be certified clip-board throwing-anti-scouting knucklehead, or he could be a semi-reasonable guy who the players look up to (and uses it to his advantage to sway players from splitting time in scouting to a full-time football commitment).


A cup of coffee at the local diner might smooth out some wrinkles.

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Kudu, I'm tracking completely with your last post.


That model (the good one, SPL working with the PLs, outdoors the majority of the time) pretty much describes my SPL experience back in the day ('70s, with my red beret and shaggy hair).(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

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