Profit for non profit organization-Camporee

[shortridge]

namu,

 

The program may have sucked, but that's likely got nothing to do with the costs. $10 for a camporee sounds INCREDIBLY reasonable. And others are right - the DE has nothing to do with program. A camporee is run by volunteers like yourself. Sounds like they were really short-staffed.

[BadenP]

namu

 

Having district and council events turn a profit has been a standard council practice for over 25 years, if not longer. Reason being too many events were not being planned well and wound up in the red, which council had to pick up. As a DE we were instructed by our SE that any event we planned had to clear at least 25% profit to cover any shortfalls, and that all district event budgets had to be submitted by the DE to the SE for approval. Don't kid yourself all councils first and foremost objectives are Money and Membership, and in that order. The profits were generally used to pay off debts from summer camp and cub day camp, sometimes for other debts.

[CalicoPenn]

I think surplus is a more accurate term than profit. When it comes to reporting, there is no reporting on individual events to the IRS - it's all rolled up into one return so one event's surplus may help cover another event's shortfall. It's just the way of the non-profit.

 

I do believe $10 is reasonable for a camporee, but also understand that for some, it can be difficult to come by - Troops can offer camperships for more than just summer camp to help out those that need it. I believe it's appropriate for the district to charge the same rate for the adults as they charge for the lads, even if the adults don't get to participate in events that might be paid for by the fee. In many districts, it's traditional to hold a Friday evening cracker barrel for the adult leaaders and SPL to go over the plans for the weekend - and often snack foods like cheese, sausage, apple slices, coffee, tea and hot cocoa are served - the rest of the Troop doesn't get that benefit and it's being paid for by everyone's fees. That being said, a lot of units will pay for the fees of the adults that are attending the camporee - and that seems fair to me as well.

 

However, if it was explained that a certain portion of the fee was for ammo for the range, and that event was cancelled, then the units should be reimbursed for that portion of the fee. Even if the ammo was bought, the ammo could be stored until the next summer camp and that cost could be swallowed by Council out of the summer camp budget (they'd need to buy ammo anyway).

[namu35950]

I want to thank everyone for the replies, and I understand the responses. It has been an eye opener for sure. I am still 100% for scouting and will do my best to for my troop, but at the same time makes me scratch my head and go humm. And here I thought scouting was all about the boys.

[Scoutfish]

Now, even tough $10.00 ia an awesome bargin price ( if you ask me)

 

I still think it's petty for council to want to make a profit, when they usually give no effort or offer any assistance other than allowing the distrcit to rent the camp.

 

Yeah, covering expenses is expected, but wanting to make profit over just covering costs is crappy.

[Eagle92]

Fish,

 

Trust me council would love it if all events broke even form fees. But if we did that, some events would be beyond the reach of folks. Take BS summer camp as one example. I can tell you that the actual cost of a summer camp, i.e. year round maintence, cost of a ranger, getting staff, training staff, etc costs nowhere near what scouts pay.

 

I'll give you an example. Camp Sea Gull in NC charges $959 for a week of resident camp. Camp Cheerio in NC is $875 per week. And Camp Hanes in NC charges from $579 - $719 per week, depending upon when you register and which camp program.

 

 

Camp Boddie charges between $235 to $255, depending upon deadline, for their week long camp.

 

Pamlico Sea base charges between $295 to $315,depending upon deadline, for their week long HA programs. The 9 day kayaking is higher, $310 - $350 depending upon deadline. And the SCUBA cert. is a flat $525.

 

Also events do lose money. Again my 2010 CSDC lost approx $4. Yes it's not much, but I hadn't returned over $300 of supplies, it would have been a lot worse. Also the policy of this council is to keep training fees to a minimum so that folks will attend.I broke even when I did BALOO, but almost lost money due to folks not preregistering. I took a chance on photocopies. So surpluses from one event do help events that lose money.

 

 

[JFL49]

Please also remember (from Budgeting 101) that some costs of running an event are variable and some are fixed. If I need to use the camp dining hall for my camporee, my council may charge me $500. It's $500 whether 100 boys use the dining hall or 400 boys use it. If I estimate wrong when preparing my program budget, I may make a ton of money (AKA profit) or lose my shirt. It would be unfair to other Scouters to lose money on a event, so I will probably guesstimate a low number of participants, to make sure that I at least cover my fixed costs.

[Jay K]

I had a Dad demanding an explanation for why I was charging $3/participant for the two hour Scout aquatics session I was putting on. He interrupted the instruction i was giving to the Scouts to do this. ( There were less than 30 participants!) He was shocked when I told him it cost me $90 to rent the pool.

(That's very inexpensive: I had a troop that wanted me to do an event for them at a pool near them, and it would have cost $300 to rent that one.) Anyway, he cooled off.

It's hard to see what costs are going to be incurred by someone putting on an event. If they bought ammunition and didn't use it, they stiil paid for the ammo.

[qwazse]

If you think it's unfair for leaders to pay for stuff only the youth would use, then you need to factor that into the cost of the event. (E.g. for 20 youth to bring 2 leaders, cost per youth would be 10% more.) Then let your boys decide if it's worth it.

 

I had to "vote with my feet" this summer because another adult and I were charged full price for chaperoning an $40 event. This was a change in policy at council from the previous year. We weren't aware of it in time to adjust our budgets or to find adults who really wanted to get the patch, t-shirt and headlamp that came with the event. Simply put, neither she nor I were prepared to pay for anything except pitching in for the food we'd eat. My crew, having only recruited 6 youth participants, was not willing to pay extra to cover our charges in order to still go. The youth bowed out of the event.

 

The youth made a last minute decision not to go over budget for the event. For that much $$, we could forgo the bling and hire a guide to have us enjoy a day on some serious cliffs.

 

I sincerely hope the folks running the program were okay with losing 6 participants because they couldn't charge us for 8. I'll be sure to let them know the next time we're invited. Either way, no hard feelings.

[John-in-KC]

namu,

 

Yes, we are all volunteers, but if the District promises certain program elements, and they don't come through with them, well ...

 

Feedback is a gift.

 

Talk with your PLC. Ask them what they thought. Ask them to make a decision about next year. You do have a right to take your Scouts elsewhere. Have your COR tell the District Chairman why. You tell your District Commissioner why.

[qwazse]

Just a thought: OA chapter chiefs and venturing officers should be planning/administering district/council activities. My point, if a youth are promoting the events, they may be more sensitive to expenses, etc ...

 

Certainly we have negotiated for better fees when our VOA cabinet says "that's nice, but too expensive for me and my crew."

 

Also, if a kid is collecting the fee, you might be less frustrated about paying it.