pack195 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 In my district we have a leader who has stolen and because of her action 3 boys have dropped out of scouting, when i step up to tell the truth everyone turn against me. even the district chairman tried to kick me out of scouting. How do you follow the scout law and oath and expect the other leaders to do the same, and when they dont what do you do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 First, make sure you have concrete evidence against a person before you go to others accusing her. You also have to give a lot more details if you want to get any further advice here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle007 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 There is a lot more to this story that you are not telling us. Making accusations against people without proof can get one in a world of trouble to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle007 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 BP, you must have hit enter before I did. Great minds think alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yah, hmmm... Accusing someone of stealing without proof is potential libel, eh? Yeh want to be careful about that. It can get yeh in a lot of trouble. Especially since it doesn't seem like any other folks are convinced of the crime based on what they know, and think you might be the problem. Sometimes, people steal things and get away with it. Life isn't perfect. Sometimes, what we think is theft is really somethin' different, like holding onto a deposit when someone cancels out of an activity. It's up to the person who was stolen from to file a complaint. If that's not you, let it go. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 However, if a crime actually HAS been committed??? And the victim just doesn't know about it???? As mentioned, there isn't enough detail to hang a hat yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Do you have proof of this? I agree, there is more here than we are being told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Want to see scouters not following the scout law and oath, go no further than your woodbadge course and the game of life. Stolen????? what exactly has she stolen? In a nutshell, it is my understanding that the Charter Organization is the only one who can do anything about missing money.` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Proof or no proof, what part of the Scout Law or Oath does "when i step up to tell the truth everyone turn against me" fall into? Why do you think folks feel that way about you? There's a difference between "that cheating, no good scoundrel stole our popcorn funds" and "excuse me, but our popcorn balance doesn't seem to make sense to me, could you please explain the finances?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkrod Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I will say that what the others have said is valid but I would also say that the details are not important and you guys keep getting hung up on that point. The point is that a Leader did something wrong, boys left because of it and the Leader who is trying to do the right thing is attacked. What do you do? Lets step back from the specifics of the situation and respond to what we have been asked. It does not matter what we know about the details, assuming the post is fact (and it does not matter, just answer the question asked). What does somebody do in this situation? You get the details on paper and supporting evidence or documentation and go to your Chartered Organization Representative who should take it to the key 3 but assuming a key 3 that do not handle these things then the COR takes it to the Council Scout Executive. I will add that doing the right thing seems to bring with it a lot of baggage both in real life and here on this forum. When I had an issue and asked what to do I was attacked as well. I had a serious issue but fortunately for me I also did have a ton of supporting documentation and the issue was resolved to our satisfaction. The point of libel was brought up and unles you name "names" (make the person identifiable) it isn't libel. If it is true and you do name "names" then it still is not libel. It is libel if you name "names" and you "believe" it to be true and it is not true. When posting details on a forum such as this it is best not to post specifics that may be recognized by others and avoid getting drawn into justifying by providing details. Also note that you will end up feeling abused by disbelievers here. For some reason "A Scout is trustworthy" unless he is asking how to deal with another Scout who is not and then he is just a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hawk I want to say this as gently as I can, without attacking your post. All we have is an allegation of wrongdoing. I do not beleive posters are out of line asking for more details. To "know" somebody stole something I would need the Court Name and File number. It has been known on the Forum that people give us a situation and then later on more is added, and then more and more until we see the initial explanation was wildly exaggerated or toned down considerably. I don't think the mentin of libel had to do with posting on the forum, more of a comment on what could happen in normal real life if I, for example, went around telling people how that miserable Beavah was a cad, a thief and all around no goodnik and where he lived You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy See that would be libel then again, I am not a lawyer nor did I spend the night in a holiday inn PS: Apologies to Beavah, that was hyperbole to make a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkrod Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I understand where you are coming from but my point is simply that the facts of the allegations don't matter to answer the question asked. We are not being asked to judge the merit of the allegations, we are asked what to do if this situation exists. To demand more of an explanation of the allegations is unnecessary to answer. Even if it turned out to be greater or lesser an issue, the question asked can be answered without knowing the details. What to do in this type of situation is specific and unless criminal activity is actively occuring and the police need to be called now, the response will still be the same. Get your proof in hand and do as I have learned is what you are supposed to do. As far as libel is concerned, I only responded to elaborate somewhat on what is or can be libel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle007 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hawkrod, I'll give Pack195 a generalized answer without attacking anyone on this forum and without having or asking for specifics. Use common sense, the proper authorities and the scouting chain of command. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemlaw Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 >>>>I understand where you are coming from but my point is simply that the facts of the allegations don't matter to answer the question asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I had recently been appointed Assistant Scoutmaster in a troop. I attended a couple of outings, one of which had what appeared to be a number of young brigands attending it who weren't really in the troop. That night the restroom in the state park we were staying at was badly vandalized. A month or two later after another outing a mother told me another AS had had sex with her daughter on the outing. Frankly, I had no evidence of actual wrongdoing by anyone. But I quit and moved on to a different unit. A few months later the other AS had his Scout Membership revoked for life. Unless you are an eyewitness to wrong doing or have other physical evidence it probably takes an investigation by sopmeone with some authority to verify what actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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