sharing space with homeless shelter??

[Flyingfish]

I am the father of a girl scout. The troop meets in a large church that also has a pack and a troop. The boys meet across the road from the church. (I am not a leader for these boys.) The church is downtown in a small town.

 

The church has decided to convert unused basement space to a homeless shelter for men only. The church says it will be doing background checks and drug test on the men. They said the space is not accessible from inside the church. They also said they will provide security while the children are there.

 

There is a split among the leaders as to whether they should stay at the church or find another location.

 

Girl scouts are not chartered by the church as the boys are. The church as treated the girls very well and the troop does not want to damage the relationship.

 

Has anyone else had any experiences that would aide in this decision?

 

 

[IM_Kathy]

being involved with both BSA and GSUSA...

 

Girl Scouts do not have a charter through anywhere but GSUSA and would be able to move to any location they chose. They would need to check with the council and safty-wise on this issue - the biggest issue would actually be bathroom facilities as men need to have a completely seperate area to use.

 

Boy Scouts I don't think there would be any issue that I know of, and with them being across the street should really not be a problem. With them chartered with the church it would be harder for them to move - though I do know of packs/troops that are charted with a particular group/church that use another place for their meetings.

[BDPT00]

The church has several missions, and aiding homeless men seems to be one of them (as is providing space for Girl Scouts). What message are you sending these men and this church and your community when you pick up your ball and go home?

BDPT00

[The Blancmange]

What message are you sending these men and this church and your community when you pick up your ball and go home?

I agree completely. It's not as if this is a halfway house for released convicts. Most organizations operating homeless shelters have a pretty low tolerance for drug/alcohol abuse or other misconduct by residents. Why not use this instead as an opportunity for education and service. Suggest to your troop that they periodically cook and serve a meal for the men.

[John-in-KC]

There's a ton of education for both Troops with this. In case of BSA unit, SM/CC should visit with COR/IH and discuss any needed safety issues. Simple prudence.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with Blancmage, eh?

 

This is just fine, and a great service opportunity.

 

It will also help some of your girls and families develop greater understanding and compassion for those who are truly down on their luck.

 

There but for the grace of God go all of us...

 

Beavah

 

[Stosh]

As a former minister, I would welcome both the BSA and GSUSA groups stepping up and assisting in this important ministry of their CO/sponsor/beneficiary. I'm thinking that if the church thought for a second there was a dangerous security issue they would address it long before it came to light.

 

I wouldn't look at this as a negative thing for the gals, but a great opportunity to put some of their skills out there and help in a real viable way. We talk to the kids about good turns, but here one has a golden opportunity served up on a silver platter for the kids to roll up their sleeves and start doing good turns instead of just talking about them.

 

Every group of youth I have "exposed" to such service have been deeply moved and have caused some really "special" moments for them and the groups they represent. Youth spend a lot of time in their formative years worrying about acceptance and self-esteem. A couple of opportunities to help out and I'm betting you're going to have a difficult time getting these kids to think about anything else for a while. You may have to limit the help to once a month so that the other parts of the BSA and GSUSA programming can get done!

 

Stosh

 

 

[ScoutNut]

There are a LOT of homeless out there now who are former middle class who are brand new to the streets. This is not a lifestyle most would choose willingly.

 

The church has given you their assurance of security. There will be no direct access between the girls and the men in the shelter.

 

How old are the girls? Depending on how many girls there are, and their ages, you might consider having a few more parents stay around for meetings. However, make sure they are useful, not just chatting, and distracting the girls.

 

Also, depending on the ages of the girls, the Troop leader(s) might discuss the situation with them, and get their feedback on the situation.

 

 

My feelings - as long as the church holds up their security end, I don't see this as a problem.

 

It could be a very good learning experience for the girls, and inspiration for them for leadership/service projects.

 

 

[hendrickms24]

My question is would the issue be the same if the church men's club was meeting in the same building with the GS troop?

I really don't think it is a problem.

 

Mark M.

 

[Lone-Scout]

I am also a father of a Cadet. Not in a million years do I want my precious little baby in any proximaty to an inner city men's only homeless shelter. Just ain't happening. Never.

 

We do crafts and learn skills, junior social worker isn't one of them.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

It is easy to get righteous on an internet forum but there is a reality. How many of you actually experienced it?

 

here is what will happen because I have been through a similar incident. Our CM ticked off the CO and we were asked to leave. Another church picked us up who has a very active soup kitchen, AAA and Drug intervention program. We were very thankful to have them as a CO and have somewhere to meet. The first month was great and everyone was happy. Colder weather came, pretty soon we had Drunk homeless men wondering through our meetings. We had people hassling our parents for change and sexual favors as they entered and left the church. They damaged our cars in the parking lot and peed on the doors of the church when we locked the church doors to keep them out during our meeting. In a nutshell after 3 months of it most of the parents took their boys to other Packs.

 

Some questions to think about

Is it worth an incident with one of the girls?

Are you willing to look a parent in the eye if something does happen?

Are these guys Criminals?

 

For the safety of the youth find another location.

 

Single day community service projects are great, exposure to the homeless in a controlled environment like a soup kitchen is fine. Getting in and out of the church is another thing.

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Lone-Scout]

Your CO could have fired the CM and replaced him. But instead tossed the entire pack. Nice.

 

Why on earth would a troop, boy scouts or girl scouts subject their kids to an environment such as the one basement mentions? Again, I wouldn't allow it in a million years, that is, the kids in my charge being subject to that environment and calling it Scouting.

 

Kids should be out starting campfires with flint and steel, catching, cleaning, and eating a trout, making rope bridges and towers, shooting arrows, canoeing, and all that good stuff. They will see the seedy side of life soon enough and if they go to college, they'll be forced to take Sociology and really have it fed to them.

 

Let's get back to our inner- Norman Rockwell.

[ScoutNut]

Flyingfish stated -

 

"The church says it will be doing background checks and drug test on the men. They said the space is not accessible from inside the church. They also said they will provide security while the children are there."

 

Nothing was said about an "AAA and Drug intervention program", or allowing the occupants unlimited access to all areas of the church and its grounds. There is a BIG difference.

 

Also nothing was said about it being an "inner city" shelter. Flyingfish stated the church is located in the downtown area of a small town. In the small towns I have seen, and lived in, the downtown area could not be even remotely considered "inner city".

 

A church in my town put a PADS shelter in it's basement. There was much hoopla about safety because the church had it's own school. It's been there years now without any problems.

 

Perhaps the church will allow the girls to share the space across the street used by their BSA units. That would put more distance between.

[The Blancmange]

Lone Scout wrote:

Why on earth would a troop, boy scouts or girl scouts subject their kids to an environment such as the one basement mentions? Again, I wouldn't allow it in a million years, that is, the kids in my charge being subject to that environment and calling it Scouting. Kids should be out starting campfires with flint and steel, catching, cleaning, and eating a trout, making rope bridges and towers, shooting arrows, canoeing, and all that good stuff. They will see the seedy side of life soon enough and if they go to college, they'll be forced to take Sociology and really have it fed to them.

I have many times taken my kids to our local rescue mission to help serve or deliver food (church, not scouting function), and never experienced anything like basementdweller described. At the shelter in my city (a small city - 70,000 ppl), behavior like this would simply not be tolerated. The person would be asked to leave and would not be welcome back.

Try volunteering at your local shelter. Sit down and talk with some of these guys and I think you will discover that many of them are not all that different from you. I've had several homeless men as clients over the years. They have lost jobs, had medical or mental problems, substance problems, etc that caused them to end up there. Many of them are veterans. If you put a face on these men, it is hard to be so dismissive. How does the Scout Law suggest a scout act in this situation?

BTW, I was a sociology major, and I'm not sure what you are suggestingis "fed" to students. Usually we're the ones accused of having the ivory tower mentality. (This message has been edited by the blancmange)

[Lone-Scout]

I'd pull my kids out of scouts in a second if their program steered away from scoutcraft and outdoor skills and into areas where my kids would be in any proximity to vagrant drug users and alchoholics.

 

I am a veteran, who served multiple tours. In Vietnam, only 1 out of 10 soldiers served in a combat arms specialty, those being infantry, armor, cavalry, artillery, aviation....the killers. The other 90% were combat support and combat service support, medical, finance, communications, police, engineers, ordinance, cooks, supply, and admin. The Navy and Air Force had even fewer numbers engaged in actual combat.

 

I am so glad that we have a safety net in place for those infantry men who saw fierce combat and suffered the irrepairable PTSD and similar conditions. While in the service, there were guys who partied, and then there were the guys who were worthless, falling down, wastes of OD Green, who weren't good soldiers and who are now filling your shelters. If 90% of the soldiers and marines saw no combat actions, and an even greater percentage of airmen and sailors, what does their being a homeless alchoholic have to do with being a veteran? There shouldn't be a lot of PTSD for a guy who served a couple years in the 1445 Supply Battalion a million miles from the front lines.

 

My grandfather went ashore in Normandy on D +3, he saw combat. He had bad dreams. He occasionally drank too much. He never missed work.

 

What happenned to self reliance and personal responsibility?