GernBlansten Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 How many units out there do this? Throw roadblocks in to delay a scout from earning his Eagle until right before his 18th birthday? I know one unit in my district that will not allow a scout to earn Life before he's 15. I know that is adding requirements and is wrong. What is your experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle90 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Whoever knowingly does this should be removed from the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I doubt seriously it works. My experience is they just say the heck with it and quit. Or their parent's beat or bribe them into submission. One nearby troop has a series of age requirements, Star 13, Life 14, Eagle 15 plus a whole bunch of other stuff not in the book. They are one of the mega-troop with lots of influence at council, so they get by with it. I don't agree that holding a kid until he is almost 18 is a desirable thing. What's the point? If they don't want to be here I don't want them here, I don't care how old or what rank. Frankly, junk like this tells me that the leaders aren't too bright. Setting up BS stumbling blocks or creating extra requirments is ham-fisted. Show a little creativity and figure out how to slow over-achievers down by distracting them. Find things for them to do besides advancement. Jamboree, OA, Hornaday, Den Chief. There is a bit of art to this Scoutmaster thing. Our troop has a long history of deathbed Eagles. Finally, for the first time in YEARS we have a 16-year-old Eagle. I'm looking forward to seeing what this kid can do. In the past he's shown a real interest in working with younger boys -- den chief, troop guide, working at day camp. He's finishing a term as SPL right now, but I'm looking forward to working with him to figure out how he can give back to the troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonsmom Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 My son was a 16 year old Eagle and his troop's attitude was "here's your hat, what's your hurry?" They assumed that, since he was an Eagle, he was done with scouting, nothing more to do. He wanted to stay active. We ended up moving to another troop so he could stay active. He just helped us start another new troop (among the very untapped homeschool groups locally). I think he has done more since he made Eagle than he did all the years before. Troops do themselves great harm when they marginalize Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 If they've decided the thing which happen in Troops and Crews are for them, they are going to stick around. If they decide they're done, holding Eagle to 18 ain't gonna help. As a policy, it's a crock of smelly old %%%%, and it stinks. I'D RATHER SEE A PARENT DO WINGS FOR WINGS than this.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrp1488 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 My experience is they get involved in so many other things (sports, driving, girls, looking for colleges, etc.) that they have to be pushed to get their eagle done before turning 18. Our troop has a lot of last minute eagles and it's not because of anything the troop puts in their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I have to admit I've never heard of this. In my experience, troops are pushing for Scouts to finish as early as possible, even if it means 13-year-old Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwd-scouter Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 The troops in our District have all kinds of practices. Some hold back advancement, retest the scouts on every SM conference and BOR; others are advancement mills; ours does it right - sorry, couldn't resist. One of our new ASMs (just crossed over from Webelos) told me about his visit to one of the other Troops. He said the SM was talking about their attendance policy. Scouts in that troop cannot advance to the next rank unless they have a certain percentage of meetings and outings within one year of advancement. The reason the SM gave for the policy is that in that past they've had older Scouts drift away for a while and then come back to get Eagle. The policy is to force those boys to become active to earn their Eagle. New ASM didn't like that policy much as his son plays baseball and will have to balance that and Scouts. He picked our troop because we have no attendance policy. Scouts advance according to their own commitment. The program to advance is there, a Scout can advance quickly or slowly - it's all up to him. We have another Troop in town that seems to churn out a lot of young Eagles (13 and 14 years old). Sad part is that Troop loses those guys early - get Eagle and get out seems to be the norm. Then we have a Troop that I very much admire. Not a big Troop, but very active. Boy led all the way. They don't have a big trailer of equipment, they backpack for everything. The SM is a laid back kind of guy that's been the SM forever. Older boys and younger boys. Just about every year this Troop produces an Eagle, but always an older Scout. The OA guys in that Troop are very active in the chapter and lodge. I have learned a lot from this SM. Talk to him at roundtables and at camporees. The guys in his Troop enjoy being Boy Scouts and for the most part stay active until 18 - Eagle or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm 411 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Never stifle a boys enthusiasm is one of my mantras. A tale of two brothers - The older brother crossed over in fifth grade as an AoL Webelos. He completed the requirements for First Class in eighth grade. Currently he is Star and a freshman in high school. He is going at his own pace and will probably make Eagle by the time he is 17. This Scout loves sports and plays almost year round. He is also a den chief. The younger brother crossed over last February also a AoL Webelos in addition he earned all 20 activity pins. He earned First Class in early October and completed Star in the minimum 4 months. He is knocking on Life's door, I think he is just waiting on the time requirement. He went to summer camp twice. My bet is he will be a very young Eagle, probably the youngest Eagle our troop has ever seen. He has no interest in sports. He is in the band. He is typically the first to sign up for anything the troop does. My point is that these guys are progressing at there own pace as the program is designed. The Scouter philosophy in our troop is to provide the Scouts with opportunities. If they choose to take advantage of the opportunities that is up to them. The idea of throwing roadblocks in the way is actually offensive to me. What is the point? What are these people thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I must echo what eagle90 posted. Whoever knowingly does this should be removed from the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 One of the troop's in my district has an unoffical policy that they don't want to see an Eagle candidate before he's 15. This decision was was made by the COR and CC. Both are Eagles, both have seen a few mills, and they don't want that reputation with the troop. Their opinion is that it;s very rare to see a 13 or 14 YO Eagle have the maturity, skills and leadership ability to truly be an eagle.Grant you they don't have the problem now as it is a young troop, but I see it in the near future. Since they are very active, they have an 11 YO First Class Scout who is smoking along. Me personally I think that every young man should enjoy themselves and get the most out of scouting. I like to see scouts get Life and their Eagle project completed before HS because there will be extracuirriculars and "da fumes: perfume and car fumes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwd-scouter Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Hopefully, we will all also remember that Eagle isn't the finish line or even the goal/purpose of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonys Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 There should never be intentional roadblocks to a boys advancement that said. I don't see an attendance policy as a roadblock either. we have a policy that 50% attendance (campouts)is required to be considered Active in the troop. this is not a problem for the younger scouts. what we have found is it can be an issue for older scouts seniors in high school usually as they get involved in more things. parents sometimes complain about the rule but the rule is the rule and no boy who worked with the troop has ever been held back (sometimes we end up with extra outings ) the rule is the rule and learning how to manage your time is just another part growing up as is dealing with the consequences of your choices. now the boy who just made 50% campouts to get life and then only went on 2 outings the rest of the year and his mom screamed at me I couldn't hold that against him i have no Patience for. he was warned repeatedly. well mommy wanted him to be eaglr so bad they found a troop 2 1/2 from his 18th birthday that told him he didnot need to do any outings at all and they gave him his eagle as monny wanted. I wonder what he learned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 My son earned his Eagle at 15. He was one of the youngest in the unit to earn it in recent history. Most of our scouts stay active until about 15, then drop out for the most part, only to return at 17 to finish up due to parental pressure. So while we have been in the unit, there have never been active Eagle scouts to mentor the younger boys. My son is the exception. He's stayed active, taking the role of JASM and being a role model for the younger scouts. Its really invigorated the younger boys and a couple of them now want to "beat" my son to Eagle by getting it earlier than he did. I think having a younger active Eagle scout is healthy for the troop. On the other side of the argument, my brother earned his Eagle by 13.5 and promptly quit. He joined the Drum and Bugle Corps and never attended another troop meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 My son's troop is one where it is very unusual for a boy to earn Eagle before he is 16. Most of the guys earn Eagle at 17, if at all. We do have guys who leave the program or become markedly less active at 15-16, but many stay right through to their 18th birthday whether they are Eagles or not. Just had 4 more age out in the last few weeks, 2 as (brand new) Eagles, 2 as Life. It is not the case that his troop puts up road blocks. If anything, I think we make it too easy sometimes, not holding the bar high enough (in early ranks on some skills, in later ranks on leadership and scout spirit). It *is* the case that the troop has simply de-emphasized group advancement efforts. Merit badge sessions during troop meetings are practically non-existent. Camp outs may have merit badge opportunities built in, but they're not shoved down anybody's throats. I don't think there has ever been a troop camp out where a boy could complete all requirements for a MB all in one weekend. We no longer promote our council's Merit Badge University. Skill requirements for T-2-1 are taught fairly regularly, but it is the boy's responsibility to get the sign off. At summer camp, boys do take MBs (and sometimes, to my great distaste, the older boys do the "classroom" E-R badges there just to get them over with), but if they leave some time free to do other stuff, or if they sign up purely for non-required/"fun" badges like canoeing or archery, nobody is going to stop them. And if they have a fist full of partials nobody follows them around to ensure they finish, either (sometimes I almost wish they would! My son probably has 10 partials at any given time, which - I admit - irks me from time to time). We have Eagle advisers. They don't follow boys around and hound them. They might nudge a boy from time to time but the onus is on the boy to contact them, to follow through on his own. Result: we have many boys who make Star fairly early, say 12-early 13. We have some boys who cruise right on to Life pretty early too, but most rest for a while at Star and hit Life around 14-15 or later. Those who hit Life early (say, 13) tend to stay there for a while too. In my 4 years with the troop there has been 1 13 year old Eagle (who stopped attending shortly thereafter), 1 14 year old Eagle (who left to go to boarding school shortly thereafter), and 1 15 year old Eagle (who stayed around for another year or so until his 13 year old brother made Eagle, and then they were both gone). So it isn't impossible, but it is pretty unusual. And I'm ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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