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Where does the money stop and Scouting begins?

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"Our Cub Summer Adventure Camp Weekend costs $108 per Scout and $83 per adult (early bird prices were $88/$63). "


For a weekend? Wow...you live in a more affluent area than I do. There was a minor uprising here 2 years ago when the price for Cub daycamp (thats FIVE days) went from $40 to $50.



Oh, for what its worth... I've taken my family of 6 camping for the weekend for under $50 not counting gas money. Its not that hard really. Of course camping in some areas cost more than others (just like everything else).



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Reading this is an education.


On the subject of "charge higher fees" instead of fundraising. As on that has spent some time unemployed, I can tell you that I'd rather see fundraising, popcorn sales, FOS, and the like. That allows people to contribute as they can when they can. For 5 years my FOS contribution was $0. I am making up for it now so some other young father can have his son in scouting without feeling a pinch.


If you feel all your time is spent on fundraisers, then you are doing something wrong.


Fundraising teaches valuable skills and lessons, not to mention offers opportunity. At the end of the day, i look at every kid I have known (including my own) where camp was a bit out of range for the family. Having a fundraiser allows those kids to make it to camp on their own efforts. FAR better than having to ask for a campership!


Last of all, it costs money to run something like Boy Scouts. A LOT of money. I own a business, I serve on boards for chamber, scouts, church... If you think BSA or your local council is full of people getting rich, look again. Even the highest paid staffers could get more working comparable jobs at a for profit company.



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(Posted very much with tongue in cheek)

Wow -You Americans!!

First you complain about a little tax on your tea!! Now it's your pop-corn!!

Are you ever happy?


OK -That was a joke.

My answer to the question:

"Where does the money stop and Scouting begins?"

Scouting starts with you, me and all the other volunteers.

Without us and of course the youth there is no Scouting.

What a unit does or doesn't do is very much in the hands of the unit.

I think we would all agree that along with the "Good Stuff" found in the vision and mission statements, we all want each and every youth member to get as much as he or she can from the program, we really like to see kids having fun, trying new things and taking on new challenges.

Sometimes we can within a unit provide all of this.

Sometimes there are activities that the youth want to do and we need the help of others. Yes! Even the Council!!

My thinking is that we need to keep an open mind.

I have had the misfortune to run into several adults who have allowed their own personal opinions of the Council to get in the way of providing a better program for the youth they serve. When the strong opinions of the adults get in the way of serving the youth? Something is out of whack!

Back when I was a CM, like Barry I never spent much time dwelling on what others might have wanted us to do. We were happy to look at what was offered and decide if it was something that the Scouts wanted to do and who could do the best job of doing it.

We sold pop-corn, not because I like pop-corn (I don't!!) Not because the Council "Said so". We sold it because it worked well for us. If it hadn't I would have been OK with us not selling it.

When it came to Council ran resident camps, I was happy to present and provide all the information to all the parents. Being as these were Council ran activities there really was no need for me or anyone from the Pack Leadership team to attend. Of course if my son was going? I was never very far behind.

To be very honest I tend to think all this talk about kids selling pop-corn and fund raising is a load of bunk (My own opinion!) The kids don't really sell the parents do all the work.

While I was lucky in that I found a way of selling pop-corn by the case and My kid was recognized as being a Top Seller (He won a mountain bike and a campership!!) Not every parent was that lucky. To be honest if I hadn't been in business I think our sales wouldn't amount to much (My family is all in places outside of the USA, Her Who Must Be Obeyed had parents who were both only children and she has a brother who is a twit.)

As OJ got older (In Boy Scouts) he was busy and I was busy so I was far happier just writing the check and not selling anything!

The Pack budget was set by the Pack Committee with input from the Pack leaders. Council activities were never included.

After the budget was set an amount of money (I think it was about $65.00)was set this became the Pack Dues. We didn't care where the $65.00 came from!! Parents were free to write a check, pay in installments or fund raise or do both. Any money over the $65.00 could be used (If it was from money raised in the name of the Pack) for Scouting activities.

At that time our Council Cub Camping program was outstanding and we had nearly all the Scouts attending resident camps and Parent and Son Camps.

I dislike fund raising so we had two frozen Pizza Sales a year and the pop-corn sale.

We did what we at that time thought was best for the kids in the pack.

We used the Council to help us meet that end.

If we had felt that we didn't need the help and support of the Council, I think we would have been just as happy to walk away and do our own thing.

I do very firmly believe that Parents are willing to pay the cost of a quality program and would sooner hand over their hard earned cash to a program that really holds the intrest of their son than not pay and have a son who is not on the receiving end of a quality program.



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Our council runs Family Camp the price is $11 per head with a max of $55 per family so have more kids if you want a better deal. This includes A full afternoon of round robin activities five 40 minute sessions. My only recent participation is running the BB gun venue. Bear in mind this is Florida the originator of the 40 minute or more line and you pay way more to go there and meals and lodging are on your own too. It is just possible that someone waited 40 minutes at the range to shoot if they blew off their previous session and showed up 40 minutes early. We never let any adults shoot we are their strictly to provide the cub scouts with a strictly limited by BSA opportunity to shoot. Maybe the council in question needs some people to step up and help. I know our family camps are sold out months ahead of time. I have no objection to people voting with their feet and dollars. No bang for your buck don't go! Family camp is designed to be camping lite to allow cubs to get a little taste if you camp them too much too young they will not stay in Boy Scouts long enough to get anywhere.

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I have heard a bunch of pro's and con's in this topic.


First topic: Yes, you do have to sell popcorn in our council to get quality unit. It clearly states from the form: We will support the council by participating in Friends of Scouting,

AND the annual product sale. (our annual product sale is popcorn). Here is a link http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/14-190-08.pdf


Second topic: For 5 dollars a person I can feed them 3 times. Food prices went up? Not if you budget right...


Third: I have to pay to go to a camp that is usually free for me to go to. What is so special about round robins? 1 hour an event that is run by Volunteers. BB's don't cost that much I can bring my own.


Blah Blah Blah.............. I'm not going to even get started on our EXPO and the 10 dollar discount cards they want us to sell.


I like going to council events but it is starting to be more of a burden. Money, Money, Money, can registered scouters get a break already? My pack does it own fundraising and it's not ripping people off by selling them a 2 dollar box of popcorn for 7 bucks...


and just to be really picky, what about these Chinese uniforms and badges with lead paint in them? Do they not make money at the scout shop? National, Council, and district make money! why do they have to REQUIRE you to put money in their pockets to earn awards? I'm not going to lie, I like knots but if this is the way I have to earn them, forget it.(This message has been edited by Bayou Beaver)

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Bayou Beaver,


I looked at the form you linked to. Right after item 6, it says "The two items listed below are not required to qualify." Then it lists visits from your commissioner, and then the line that you reference. I think you may not have looked up and apparently missed the "not required" part of that.

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Let me address this from a point of view other than money.


If you don't believe the district/council events are up to snuff or are too expensive, don't go. If they don't meet the needs of your unit, you feel you can do a better job within your unit or you feel you have good program without them, stay the heck home.


For a long time I thought I had to be at every Roundtable, every district committee meeting, every event to "support the program." No. It is the responsibility of the district/council to support the unit, not the other way around. If your pack has a good outdoor program without attending district events, you should be congratulated. If anyone gives you lip about it, ask them what the purpose of the district program is.


Our unit recently chose not to participate in district event because, 1) it has become a hassle and we really don't care to participate, and 2) we replaced it with another outing that our boys and leaders are really excited about. I caught it from four directions at the last Roundtable for "not supporting" the event. That's not my job. I'm here to provide a good program to the 40 guys in my unit.


That said, I will point out that I believe there is a difference between program and finance. I do believe we have a responsibility to support the Council financially. The big difference there is that my FOS contribution is an individual matter. How much or if I contribute is my own decision. If the FOS campaigns were directed at unit treasuries, that would be a different issue.

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"I just checked the Centennial QU form and there are two OPTIONAL goals: visits from your Unit Commissioner, and participation in the annual product sale (not all councils do popcorn). Repeat, OPTIONAL."


This is what I posted in the 7th reply to the original question, back on page 1 of this thread.


Apparently nobody bothers to read any more.


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I have to say from what I heard...my units FOS last year was directed toward the pack treasury. I have no confirmation of this and it may have been naivety on the part of the CM or lack of participation on the part of pack families, but my understanding is the pack paid a substantial amount relative to their treasury to FOS.



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If your Pack paid your council an FOS donation from their Pack treasury, that was completely a Pack decision, not something that can be demanded by a council.


FOS in a unit is directed at the families. Every family gets a pledge card. They can either give a monetary donation then and there, pledge whatever amount they feel comfortable giving, or check the box that states they are not donating anything. A Council can not FORCE families, units, or anyone else to give a donation.

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