Eagle...So What?

[oldsm 10]

I'm sorry if this sounds negative, but I am really starting to wonder where the "magic" is in achieving Eagle. My troop has produced three eagles in the last year. All of them finished their requirements with only a day or two left before they aged out. Our troop is most definitely not an Eagle mill. We've only "produced" 5 in the last 6-7 years (including these 3).

 

Scout #1 finished his requirements in January, had his EBOR in early March. His ECOH was not held until mid-September, after he was attending college. The purported reason for delaying was the his mom didn't want to deal with it over the summer (she only works part time and was the director for 1 week of Cub Scout Day Camp). Time between EBOR and ECOH: 6 months+.

 

Scout #2 finished his requirements in July, had his EBOR in mid-August. His ECOH is scheduled for February 4. The best reason I've heard is that the family wanted to be sure his grandmother could attend from out of state. Also, they want to get his Cubmaster to attend (from about 900 miles away). The parents had visions of grandeur, expecting to use the high school auditorium to accomodate all the guests: out-of-staters, parents' professional colleagues, boy's friends. Then they found out how much the school was going to charge them for use of the facility. It's now scheduled for the church that charters the troop. I am finally getting to have a meeting with the scout and his parents to see what they've come up with for an ECOH ceremony (I provided advice and suggestions in December). Not much time left to plan a big shindig. Time from EBOR to ECOH: almost 6 months.

 

Scout #3 finished his requirements in late October, had his EBOR in mid-November. Boy has shown virtually no interest in planning an ECOH. Finally got a commitment from him about a date (March 11) and got it scheduled with his church (where he finally decided to have it). In spite of several requests to look at ceremony resources (both printed and online), he has done nothing. Time from EBOR to ECOH: 3.5 months.

 

A very small influencing factor on scheduling ECOHs is our troop calendar - trying to avoid weekends that have too many things already scheduled. That's only a minor factor.

 

Sadly (my lament), none of the boys (oops! men - they're 18 now) will be able to wear the Eagle badge on their uniforms (#2 and #3 are already registered as ASMs). They will have to be content with the Eagle square knot.

 

Is Eagle not perceived by the boys (and their parents) to be the high achievement we adults consider it to be? You would think that there would be excitement and enthusiasm about having an ECOH. That seems not to be the case.

 

Scout #2 and Scout #3 discussed at one point having a joint ECOH. Scout #2's parents nixed that due to the number of people they expect...

 

How much time do you typically experience in your troops between a successful EBOR and a corresponding ECOH?

 

Scout #3 is my oldest son. I supported him through his scouting career but did not do his work for him. My ASM's will vouch for that! Planning or even discussing his ECOH just aren't high on his priority list. And I'm tired of prodding.

[KC9DDI 11]

Well, I think it comes down to who really wants it - the scout? his parents? his troop? If the scout isn't really interested, or only interested in putting it on a college application, the ECOH really isn't a big deal.

 

That's the worst-case scenario. A couple other, more positive thoughts: scouts #1 and #2 seem to both have valid reasons for the delay, so I don't see the issue. Perhaps scout #3 is a person who shies away from big pomp-and-circumstance ceremonies.

 

I don't see the problem with some time passing between the EBOR and the ECOH - for me, there was almost 7 months between the BOR and the COH. I do see the problem with the parents nixing the scout's plans - whatever reasonable decision the scout makes, whether is a big shin-dig or a small affair conducted at a weekend campout, should be supported by the troop (again, provided its reasonable).

 

Sometimes the Eagle award just isn't as important as the path taken to the Eagle award. I've known scouts who didn't achieve Eagle, or earned Eagle as an afterthought, but had a blast working with the troop, mentoring younger scouts, serving on camp staff and training staff, went to Philmont and Jamboree, heavily involved with OA, etc. Some may have just joined Scouting for other reasons, and doesn't feel that the Eagle award is necessary for them (but, I wonder, what will they think 20 years from now?)

 

So, oldsm, I see your point - you, as their SM, are obviously proud of the work that your scouts put in to earning this rank, and you, as their SM, must have put many of those 1 hours a week into these scouts... but, unfortunately, the scouts have to line up their own priorities.

[Hunt 11]

I wonder if this is more likely to happen with boys who are attaining Eagle rank just before turning 18--they're getting ready to go to college, and may be transitioning out of scouting (as youth, anyway). They may be focussing more on what's coming, and thus as less interested in the COH than they might be if they had another year or two of high school, and thus another year or two in the troop as youth members.

[gwd-scouter 11]

We had two Eagle Scouts the past two years. The first in 2005, earned it two days before his 18th birthday; the second (2006) earned it one week before his 18th birthday. Neither of these scouts had a COH and probably never will. The first did try to schedule his, but had family conflicts and it just never happened. I have lost touch with both Scouts even though I've repeatedly sent emails, left messages and sent regular letters through the mail.

 

Very sad, but they were so focused on doing what was required to "finish" Eagle that I don't think it really meant all that much to them other than a resume builder. Also, just after finishing, they both graduated High School and moved on to jobs and college. Even though each told me during their Eagle SM Conferences that they wanted to continue to help with the Troop, it never really happened.

 

We currently have three Life Scouts working toward Eagle. One is 16, has finished is project, and is completing one year as SPL. I figure he will get the remaining merit badges done by the end of this year. The other two? One of them I doubt will finish. He has five months left 'till his 18th birthday and has not shown any real commitment to the troop for 3 years. He makes a big show of asking for a POR, gets selected by SPL for one, and then is gone again for six months or more without a word. The other has actually been active, served as our SPL last year and has planned his project. He will also be turning 18 this spring. He only has his project left to do.

 

I really hope that one of these days I'll have the honor of presenting an Eagle Badge to a Scout in our Troop. Maybe this will be the year.

 

[ScoutNut 147]

"I am really starting to wonder where the "magic" is in achieving Eagle."

 

I think the important word here is ACHIEVING.

 

I think it is also important to remember that it is the BOYS achievement.

 

"Is Eagle not perceived by the boys (and their parents) to be the high achievement we adults consider it to be? You would think that there would be excitement and enthusiasm about having an ECOH. That seems not to be the case."

 

Is the importance of earning Eagle tied to how fast they hold a party to announce it to the world? As KC asked, who is the ECOH for? For the Troop, SM & parents to show off their nice, shiny, new Eagle? In many cases, it seems that is the answer.

 

If these boys did not think that earning the rank of Eagle was important, they would not have earned it. They did earn it. They spent 12 years working toward it. Their reasons for earning it have no bearing on the fact that they DID earn Eagle.

 

At 18 there is a LOT going on in a young man's life. More than at almost any other time. They have work, sports, college applications, college visits, keeping their school grades up for that all important last transcript to college, finals, HS graduation, working all summer to save for college books & expenses, preparing to move away from home for the very first time, & Scouts. Is it any wonder some boys don't see the importance in hurrying to plan an ECOH?

 

Then there are some that just might not be interested in the hoopla. The ACHIEVING of Eagle was the important thing for them. Maybe your son does not want a ECOH.

 

My daughter and 3 other girls in her Girl Scout Troop earned the Girl Scout Gold Award (GS version of Eagle) in their last year of high school. Three of the four girls, my daughter included, refused to attend the council's Gold Award recognition. They were busy with their last few rushed months of high school & felt that the accomplishment of earning the award was enough & did not see the need to get up in front of a crowd to announce it. Was I disappointed? Definitely! I was proud of the girls and I wanted the world to see what great young women they were. I felt they should want to be acknowledged in front of their peers. I felt they should want to show everyone what they had done. Do you see the pattern there? I felt, I wanted. Not they felt, or they wanted.

 

Be happy & proud for the boys. Stop prodding your son. If they want a ECOH it will happen sooner or later. It really is not all that important. What IS important is the BOYS and what they have accomplished.

[epalmer84 10]

I'm one of those who never go to sew the patch on my shirt. I joined Boy Scouting at 14, made Eagle just before my 18th birthday and was an ASM by the time of my COH.

 

At the time I earned it, it was no big deal- it was pretty much more of the same advancement trail. Since then, I find that I look back on my perceived shortcomings as a youth and try to do better. I look at the Eagle Scouts of today and hope they feel the same way later. I know that if I tell someone that I am an Eagle Scout, then they have certain expectations.

 

I have started telling new Eagles:

 

"You don't make Eagle, Eagle makes you."

 

Ed

 

 

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Have you ever noticed how "many", (not all, but many) teenage boys stare at the ground and mumble when you attempt to engage them? They simply don't like being the center of attention. That doesn't mean they don't like achieving things and/or feel proud of their accomplishments. They just don't like being put on display.

[evmori 11]

Have you ever noticed how "many", (not all, but many) teenage boys stare at the ground and mumble when you attempt to engage them? They simply don't like being the center of attention. That doesn't mean they don't like achieving things and/or feel proud of their accomplishments. They just don't like being put on display.

 

I don't think it's because they don't like to be the center of attention. I think it's they don't know how to interact with people.

 

There are Scouts who earn their Eagle & there are Scouts who get their Eagle.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutldr 732]

When I was a Scout in the late 60's-70's, I was "ate up" with it. I didn't do anything else. I remember the night I graduated from CUb Scouts and brought home my new BS Handbook and Arrow of LIght. I couldn't wait to go to JC Penney and get my new uniform. Soon thereafter, my mom taught me to sew, and every badge I earned got sewn on the same night. Then I would hang my uniform on the doorknob and stare at it until I fell asleep, feeling proud of my latest achievement.

 

Fast forward to 2007. Just did a Star BOR for a scout and had to ask him why he still had the tenderfoot badge on his uniform. "My mom never sewed it on", he said. We had our first EBOR in the troop last October. Still waiting for the Scout (now 18 and working full time) to let us know when and what he wants for a ECOH. Our second Eagle decided to wait until his brother makes it and then do both at once. All he needs is his project completed (the plan's been approved), but he hasn't been to a meeting in a year.

 

An ECOH has several purposes, in addition to recognizing the scout's achievement. It is also to motivate the younger scouts, to show your CO that you are delivering results, and to allow the parents and leaders to bask in pride. Is that too much to expect? Or is it all about the scout and only what he wants?

[Hunt 11]

"An ECOH has several purposes, in addition to recognizing the scout's achievement. It is also to motivate the younger scouts, to show your CO that you are delivering results, and to allow the parents and leaders to bask in pride. Is that too much to expect? Or is it all about the scout and only what he wants?"

 

I would also say that it is an opportunity for the scout to thank and recognize all the people who helped him along the way--his parents, his scout leaders, his fellow scouts--all those people who made sacrifices so he could earn this achievement. Even if he doesn't want to be the center of attention, he owes it to them to have his COH. He can craft it to focus on them rather than himself if he wants to.

[scoutingagain 20]

We have had ECOHs that have ranged from sit down dinners at a nice restuarant or country club that looked like a wedding reception or Bar Mitzvah reception to nothing more than the Eagle scout getting his badge and reading few letters at the end of one of our regularly scheduled Troop COHs. AS noted before, the candidate has earned his Eagle rank at the date of his EBOR. The ECOH is simply formal recognition of the award and is totally up to the scout. If he wants the certificate and badge sent to him in the mail, it is his choice.

 

Having said that, I like at least some form of recognition that other scouts can participate in. While many boys may not like being the center of attention, I seen many a young scout inspired to pursue advancement to Eagle after participating in and seeing all the granduer of a well run ECOH ceremony.

 

SA

[Venividi 35]

"to show your CO that you are delivering results"

 

 

I suspect this didn't come out with the meaning intended, but I do hope that producing Eagles isn't a way to show the CO the troop is delivering results. I think that adds pressure onto advancement as an objective rather than as a method. Scout doesn't have proper badges sewn on? I have used that as an opportunity to sit down with a scout for one on one time at a campout to have him sew on the badge. A needle, thread, and a little time, and I got to convey to a scout that attention to such detail is part of scout spirit.

 

Eagle..So What? - I agree. Even scouters get sidetracked into Eagles becoming an objective rather than a method, and can get caught up in recognizing and rewarding scouts that earn the right number of merit badges and wear a POR patch, rather than recognizing those that are too busy contributing to troop success by helping others, and truely exhibit the traits we like to think of when we think of Eagle.

 

 

[MollieDuke 10]

I had an experience several years ago with a boy who didn't want to schedule his ECOH. I finally cornered him one night and asked him why. His mom wasn't around, it was just him and me. He finally told me he didn't like the Eagle Ceremony ideas used by the troop, didn't feel they fit him, and felt they were all just a canned bunch of words anyway.

 

I challenged him to write his own "perfect" ceremony to see what the difference was, and we both loved it! I got him to propose this to the committee and he was allowed to have HIS own ceremony written BY him/FOR him. He loved it. It wasn't long, but it was HIS.

 

Sometimes, I think these boys just hate it because it's the same each and every time. It's not "special" to them if 17 of their friends have had the exact same one. It worked to vary this one, so I say suggest it to your boys, particularly those that are a bit younger than 18, and see where it goes from there.

 

Make them own the process, and maybe they'll like it better. When my son had his Eagle, his girlfriend planned the reception for him as a surprise. He knew she had a surprise, but didn't know what it was. He went through it quickly for her. Now, had I asked, maybe not. He loved the reception. It was very well done, and she really enjoyed doing it for him. Rather odd situation, but again, it worked.

[oldsm 10]

Yesterday's ECOH for Scout #2 (see the original post) has come and gone. The boys in the troop did a marvelous job of creating a silk purse out of a sow's ear, so to speak.

 

Last Monday (less than a week before his ECOH), I finally saw his first draft of the ceremony. It was very rough, had holes in it, didn't include father's pin, mentor's pin, or the eagle pin the scout's mom had bought for her son to give to his grandmother. Didn't have names of people he wanted to participate: master of ceremonies, presenter, Eagle Charge, invocation/benediction. Had not planned for a rehearsal. We discussed his ceremony and marked up the copy. The scout was to make revisions and email me a copy. I finally got it Saturday afternoon.

 

Scout was 1/2 hour late for his rehearsal. Many changes were made on the fly because he had not thought through logistics (after we had discussed them at length). Parents produced a program after the evening rehearsal.

 

The scout didn't arrive until 40 minutes after the time he was supposed to be there (only 20 minutes before the ceremony), then didn't have the programs, his eagle bust, and scroll that he wanted used in the ceremony. The rest of the troop was standing around waiting for him to get there with the revised-again ceremony.

 

HOWEVER, the scouts did a wonderful job. The SPL was the emcee, the CC, a beloved former SM, and a recent Eagle Scout did most of the "honors". The honor guard, color guard, and various readers were excellent. The candidate's father, an ordained Deacon in his church, did the invocation and benediction. I had little to do except sit back and marvel at how these young men adapted and pulled off a ceremony that at least two scouters (from other units) remarked to me was among the best they had ever seen. (I did have the honor of pinning the Eagle.)

 

We always encourage our Eagle candidates to write their own ceremonies. We provide guidance, steer them to resources, and help to fine-tune (if it's not too last-minute!), and they become memorable occasions for the new Eagles. We feel that an individual ceremony is the way to go, for exactly the kinds of reasons expressed by MollieDuke.

 

 

 

 

[CalicoPenn 729]

I've got to say that I'm really confused, or perhaps way behind the times.

 

The Eagle Court of Honor isn't a wedding, or a bar mitzvah, or a graduation party - it is a Court of Honor, and like other Court's of Honor, should be planned and executed by the Unit - NOT by the Eagle Scout and his parents. Would you require a boy getting his First Class rank to plan his own Court of Honor? Of course not! It's a Troop event - and as such is planned by the Troop - the same goes for the Eagle Court of Honor. Is it any wonder that some new Eagle Scouts don't want a Court of Honor if what they've seen in the past is Super-Parents developing elaborate ceremonies?

 

When a Troop gets word that the lad has passed the EBOR, the Troop should order the Eagle Scout presentation kit then start to plan the Court of Honor - the Eagle Scout (and his parents) should be consulted on scheduling, and who should be invited to be speaker(s) at the Court of Honor. Then the Troop gets to work to plan and prepare for the event. The Scout and his parents should get to stand back and let others do the work (they'll be busy inviting friends and neighbors - their proper role). After all, the Court of Honor is to HONOR the Scout AND his parents. Yes, this is an oportunity for the Scout to thank boatloads of people, but that is not ultimately what an Eagle Court of Honor is about - what it is ultimately about is the TROOP HONORING the Scout.

 

Every once in a while you might have a lad like MollieDuke encountered - if that's the case, do just what MollieDuke did and let them write the script if they desire too - but remember, it is still the Troop's ceremony (I'm very impressed by MollieDuke's ability to remind the lad that he still had to get the okiedokie from the committee) and once the script is rewritten and approved, let the Eagle sit back again and relax and enjoy the program.

 

When I received my Eagle (oh so many years ago), my parents and I sat down with my Explorer Post Advisor, the Scoutmaster of my Troop (I received my Eagle through my Post but the Troop and Post held a joint Court of Honor) the Committee Chairs of the Post and Troop, and the Advancement Chair of the Troop who would wrangle the planning/preparation details, and we went through some pre-planning (date and speakers) and any concerns (the Pastor of the church we were sponsored by would do the Benediction and I wanted to make sure that the Benediction was as secular as possible being I was a Wiccan - he had always been very conscious of our diverse unit during Scout Sunday's but I wanted to make sure he wouldn't be offended by the request - he wasn't and did a marvelous job) - then we just got out of the way. Rehearsal for me was mainly to know what other people would be doing when, and to get a sense of the timing of the ceremony. If your Eagle is up more than he is sitting during rehearsal, then he's too involved!

 

Or am I just being old fashioned??

 

CalicoPenn