When a scout turns 18...

[Tron 82]

To the people who repeatedly stated "Venturing" the question is does the scout want to stay in the program or does the scout want to be around his friends? If it's he wants to be in the program venturing might be a good fit; however, if he wants to be around his friends venturing is not a good fit due to the primary registration rules surrounding venturing crews. 

Has anyone heard anything about Catalyst BSA? The supposed new program being brainstormed by national for 20-30 year olds?

[HashTagScouts 437]

47 minutes ago, acco40 said:

Another issue/question: Private online communications (texting, phone calls, chat, IM, etc.) must include another registered leader or parent.

So when a Scoutmaster, alone at home, receives a telephone call from the SPL, with his younger PL brother, the Scoutmaster can't take the call?

Obviously, these "rules" appear to be written by lawyers and not driven by common sense.

Practicality of enforcement is a whole other issue. I've stepped out of the youth-facing roles as of the start of the year- that was a decision that has many parts to the sum, but these policies were a factor. I personally would always insist a parent or other adult were present for phone/Zoom/included on a text or email exchange when communicating with a youth.

[curious_scouter 134]

We had sort of a blow up over this.  Scouts BSA unit.  Scout turned 18 in Nov/Dec.  Friends would not turn 18 until sometime the next year.  Wanted to stay in the unit, but in a way where they could still participate with their buddies.  Cited "Unit College Scouter Reserve" as being for this purpose but on my own review and review with District and Council - no.  The purpose of that role is to forgive the unit of the training requirements for adult leaders for people in that role.  The training status of people in that role are not assessed a penalty for the unit in processes like JTE.  But it does not mean that person can show up to campouts and set up their tent next to their buddies and go Pal around like days of yore.  Sadly, 18 means 18 for Scouts BSA.  There's no ambiguity.  I've suggested Crew as an option because (as we are chartered under the same org) we could then have combined activities where they could come and be with their under 18 buddies as "adult program participants" as long as the YPT rules around that are followed.  I see this a lot in OA for example too.  Did not excite the person in this case, so they moved on.  But those are the options as I understand them.  If you come into Scouts BSA as an adult - you're an adult.  You are bound by the YPT rules any adult is and you would, in my unit, be expected to act like adult leaders and "stay out of the scouts' hair" vs. jump in and do stuff with them, camp with them, KP with them, etc.

[AirForceMom 0]

What if they do they YPT training but you are saying they still cannot socialize?

 

[skeptic 997]

The worse part of what we are led to believe is that technically they also cannot hang with friends outside of scouting that do not meet the age restrictions.  This is one of the many muddied interpretations.  When I was in HS, I turned 18 before I graduated and at the time was on the baseball team in school, and some school groups.  The YP today would suggest that I could no longer play on the HS baseball team because it had youth under 18, nor could I go to dances or social activities of the school and mix with my younger classmates.  Common sense continues to take a back seat to paranoia in our society and its linked legal maze.

[OaklandAndy 70]

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

Common sense continues to take a back seat to paranoia in our society and its linked legal maze.

This is the answer to all these ridiculous changes right here. It's all about CYA with the BSA National nowadays. CYA and vague answers. 

[HashTagScouts 437]

23 hours ago, AirForceMom said:

What if they do they YPT training but you are saying they still cannot socialize?

 

They MUST do YPT at age 18 one way or the other, but the challenges can be many. It was a real conflict within me on this. In the troop, I would not want an 18-20 year old to "act like a Scout", and instead be an adult to mentor. Within the OA, that would be near impossible to ask a young adult officer to not talk with a 16 year old officer, or to not be considered as equal (especially if that 16 year old was Chief). 

[Jameson76 1485]

On 1/19/2024 at 1:04 PM, AirForceMom said:

Hello. I understand your concerns however as a mother of a boy that has been this troop for many years.  He just turned 18 and is still in high school.  It is true if he joins as an adult he cannot socialize outside of the scout meetings, text, play video games, etc.  This doesn't make any sense to me. Is this true?  

When I called my council they said the position is college reservist and he can do everything a regular scout can do (except badges) and has to do the online training.  No one mentioned that anything about not being able to socialize outside of scouts. He goes to school with these boys.  

Thank you

So the YPT rules state - One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting.

So a Scout who turns 18 is considered an Adult Leader (when registered), so this would apply.  Not saying I agree, but I am not claiming to be a lawyer.  As they would have to register to attend an overnight outing, seems like a trap.

Same thing happens ALL the time in the real world.  I have some Scouts from the troop that live on my street.  Family and social friends in most cases.  Their dad is working on a project, sends Johnny down for some item or tool, we go down the workshop, get the needed gear.  By the book a YPT violation.  Had one call me as his car would not start, parents not home.  Car in the garage, rolled up and we worked on it.  Had to clean contacts, etc.  But it was just and I "alone" in the garage.  By the book a YPT violation.

Obviously the rule has a background, but, when rules like this one are in place, and seem to be overreaching it impacts the actual validity of the program,  Same with 18 year old, registered so he can participate through his HS time, which we should WELCOME and not discourage.

Edited January 23 by Jameson76

[acco40 95]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:24 PM, Jameson76 said:

So the YPT rules state - One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting.

So a Scout who turns 18 is considered an Adult Leader (when registered), so this would apply.  Not saying I agree, but I am not claiming to be a lawyer.  As they would have to register to attend an overnight outing, seems like a trap.

For a few years during Scouting for Food, our troop would run the collection agency.  All of the Patrols/Troops and Dens/Packs would bring their collections to us and we would load it into a huge 18 wheeler truck.   We did this from about 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM. 

Anyway, as a sign of gratitude someone gave me (the Scoutmaster) about 10 tickets for Lions (NFL) game the next day.  I asked who wanted to go and there were 9 boys.  So what was I to do - take all nine with no other adults?  No other adults wanted to go and tickets weren't cheap.  The solution (this was 20 or so years ago before the ". . . and outside of Scouting" portion of the YPT in The G2SS existed)?  My solution was to communicate to each of the Scouts parents that I would chaperone the boys to the game but it was definitely NOT a Scouting outing. 

Not sure I'd do that now.

[mrjohns2 582]

2 hours ago, acco40 said:

but it was definitely NOT a Scouting outing. 

Yeah, no longer ok to just say that. That is how some units have done paintball etc. not a good idea. 

[acco40 95]

19 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Yeah, no longer ok to just say that. That is how some units have done paintball etc. not a good idea. 

Understood but is the new G2SS rules practical?  For example, I've taken Scouts to public places that don't have separate restrooms for youth and adults.  How should that be handled if one wants to follow the proverbial letter of the law?

[skeptic 997]

You do the buddy system in some form.  No absolute safety in the public domain, and no manner of "rules" or "dictates" will solve every possible issue.  

 

[RememberSchiff 3683]

5 hours ago, skeptic said:

...and no manner of "rules" or "dictates" will solve every possible issue. 

IMHO every issue should be reviewed to confirm that. I do not think we should take comfort by saying, to paraphrase, "We have the best YP...".

I would rather hear We are constantly reviewing our YP procedures policies and procedures by examining incident reports with YP experts. Here is a link to our YP Committee reports on actions for those incidents, including legal actions, and legislation lobbying.

My $0.02,

Edited April 5 by RememberSchiff

[RememberSchiff 3683]

4/5/2024 Related:  ...creating a safer environment for kids

 

[SSScout 1615]

I am trying hard to adapt this title to the song "When a man loves a woman.... " for parodic purposes...