Why People Post Here - Maybe

[OldGreyEagle 5]

On another thread a poster commented that we shouldn't deride a program unless we know all the specifics of that unit. It got me to thinking, what are people looking for when they post a situation or ask a question? I am sure everyone has their own answer to this query as we all look at things from our own unique perspective. And I think its that widely varied bank of unqiue experiences that is a fourm's greatest strength.

 

I realize that when a question is raised or a situation described we never get all the information so we can only offer thoughts based on our experience and how we view the problem. Posters are free to follow, discard, or blend responses. Just as posters are advised to take advice given on any forum with a "grain of salt", the situations are also to be taken with a "grain of salt".

 

It takes a lot of time and effort to be a good volunteer in a unit, district or council and I would like to think everyone appreciates that however, just because someone volunteers doesnt mean they are sacrosanct and above reproach. If an upset parent asks if a Board of Review should take 90 minutes with knot tieing, lashing demonstrations, and first aid skills exhibited I am going to say that is wrong, not tell the parent to support the adults of the program. If someone asks if a troop can alter the BSA uniform policy and is that OK, I am going to say no, its not ok. I find it hard to encourage support for adults who are wrong. What people do with what they read here is up to them. But I do feel it incumbent that we all respond from each unique perspective.

[scoutldr 732]

As we've said once (nay, many times) before...unless the response is in quotes and references chapter and verse of a BSA publication, it's only someone's opinion. Granted, that person may have a wealth of experience, but I personally know some SMs wearing a 30 year pin who are still doing it wrong. Just because you're old and been around a long time doesn't mean you have a clue, eh? One of my favorite quotes is "when you don't know what to do, figure out what the right thing is and just do that." No point in making up things when you don't need to.

[acco40 95]

Why do individuals post here?

 

1) They want reassurance that what they are doing is "correct" or maybe more importantly to them has majority approval.

 

2) They want to point out that someone in their unit (unit to which they belong?) is doing something "wrong" and want verification from others.

 

3) Want to point out what is "wrong" with the BSA.

 

4) (and sadly least likely) They really have a sincere question or something of value to share with others.

[Cheerful Eagle 10]

acco40

 

You should add:

 

5) so they can get the "junior" tag off their member status tag.

 

By the way, do you mean "here" as in the Open Discussion - Program forum, or "here" as in all the forums here at scouter.com?

 

I read because there's a group of scouters here whose postings I've enjoyed. They're thoughtful and reflect a love for the scouts, and a love for scouting: in that order.

I read because there are posts from scouters in the trenches from whom I can learn new program ideas/proceedures/activities, or maybe learn what NOT to do...

I post because I enjoy entering the conversation, and then I compulsivly check everytime I go online to see if anyone responded to MY post.

I post because maybe I have something to add that no one had yet spoken to.

[SR540Beaver 116]

Responding to Cheerful Eagle's post.

[Lisabob 13]

Well ok when I ask a question I am usually looking for other opinions. How would they feel about a certain situation? What are some ways that other people might handle the situation? I am not exactly known for being a diplomatic type so sometimes I am also looking for ideas on how to approach someone in a more productive and constructive manner than I might be prone to, on my own. And yes, I really do want to know what you all think or I wouldn't ask. I then wander through your feedback to see what might work for me.

 

Also, particularly w/ regard to equipment and "best practices" for teaching and recruiting, I'd say I've learned quite a few new tidbits here. And I appreciate that there are other people out there who want to talk about this stuff and share experiences.

 

Now in "real life" when someone starts harrumphing about how I shouldn't question the received wisdom of the people running things because what the heck do I know, I usually read that as meaning someone's on a power trip, insecure, or angry (or maybe all three). So I generally pay less attention to that person, especially when that is their stock answer to everyone. Or to every woman. (And face it, that happens in this particular environment on more than a few occasions). I admit I take the same approach here on the forum. I grant that it is true, we can't know how a unit is really functioning just from a few posts on the board. But also I don't see how it is really helpful to inform posters that they'd better just go along with whatever (possibly ridiculous) thing the other adults in the group pronounce based on seniority alone. That's how we end up w/ some rather egregious violations of BSA policy and that's how we end up w/ units that are more like the personal fiefdom of some long-in-the-tooth SM who refuses to allow others to get involved. Not healthy in the shortrun (think sod surfing. Hey, that's ok, right? The SM said so and I'd better not question it) and not healthy in the long run (potential new volunteers are frozen out by the "old guard" who become all powerful and run the program right into the ground due to the lack of fresh ideas and energy.)

 

Beavah in particular: Despite what I've just typed, I really do understand where you're coming from with your concern that we not tell every brand new parent to go out and catch the SM/CC in the act of "doing it wrong." I just think that instead of essentially telling people to sit back and be quiet, it is more effective to help them figure out how to channel their obvious desire to help in an effective manner. And if they ask a question, I think they deserve a straight-up answer and not "keep your nose out of it."

 

Lisa'bob

[Beavah 205]

Yah, acco. I think people post here lookin' for support for their personal agenda (annoyed by troop policy, annoyed by camp policy, etc. etc.), with occasional genuine seekers looking for advice.

 

Either way, I think it's perfectly fine for others to offer their own insights, advice, or data. To share respectfully. My personal inclination, when seein' people who are lookin' for support for an agenda is to get them to consider the other side. And then to get them to think about what's really important for the kids. Any agenda other than the aims and the kids really isn't worth feedin' eh?

 

Sharing respectfully allows people to consider ideas and approaches. Using highly-charged language like "doing it wrong," "don't have a clue" "sacrosanct and above reproach," "power trip, insecure, angry" or even "not loyal, friendly, or courteous" pollutes that. It becomes people pushin' their own agenda, rather than helping a fellow scout/scouter/parent with different perspectives. And it's really awful netiquette, eh?

 

Like Lisabob, I don't agree that we should tell people to go along with whatever (possibly ridiculous) reading of the BSA regs someone here or elsewhere happens to post. I agree with OGE and others, too, in that they also should not sit quiet in the face of unit safety issues or real dysfunction that compromises our aims.

 

I think like a commissioner, most of da time. I think it's best to gather information, get people to consider other perspectives, and nudge 'em gently in a direction that might be a good "next step" for where they're at. But I believe our baseline, default position should be respect for our fellow leaders out there, as though they were our best friends from our WB patrol. Because they are, or should be.

 

At least dat's what this Beavah thinks.

[acco40 95]

Some of the posts remind me of a typical conversation I have with my wife sometimes that goes like this: (Wife) Honey, what would you like for dinner tonight, chicken or meat loaf. (acco40)Well, how about meatloaf? (Wife)No, I already took the chicken out to thaw so I think we should eat that first and have meatloaf tomorrow.

 

Well, being male, I perceive most questions as seeking a solution. After an exchange like that above I think to myself (careful to never verbalize) why on Earth did she ask me that question if my answer had no bearing on her decision?

 

Same goes for some of the individuals who ask questions here. They pose a question and then ignore or worse, attack responses (or even worse, responders) they don't agree with!

 

Sometimes I forget that some (females?) are really not looking for an answer at all but just want to be engaged in conversation.

[John-in-KC 311]

acco40,

 

One reason we get the responses you describe is our relative anonymity here on the boards. We have nicks, not our real names. Most of us do not put a whole lot in our profiles. We also have an array of experience, from "been there and done that" to "ACK!? What do I do now?"

 

One thing I do like here is that many people do have deeper Scouting libraries than I do, and they are quite willing to share. It's not easy figuring out the right thing to do, and trying to look downstream to 2d and 3d order consequences is daunting at best. Even so, I firmly believe what I've been told in WB and at Commish college: Everything old is new again. SOMEONE out there has had my particular challenge +/- 5%.

 

I also appreciate that we often are pragmatic with program (how do we best serve the youth) and pedantic about safety (sod-surfing comes to mind, as it did with Lisa). I've been a Notifiication Officer in my Army life ... it's hell, folks. I NEVER want to do it for a Scout in my charge !!

 

Finally, I find it interesting how tight-knot the Scouting family is: One of my sons' best friends, who moved to Indianapolis a few years ago (they are IM and phone friends these days) went to NOAC last week. There he encountered a friend of mine, an Associate Advisor to our own Lodge.

 

YIS

[scoutldr 732]

Acco40, amazing! I thought I was the only one who had that "conversation" at home. Now that my mother-in-law has moved in and taken control of the house, I have two women asking my opinion, so they can spend 30 minutes telling my why I'm wrong and why their way is better. If you don't want my honest opinions, then don't make me waste my time thinking about it. (sorry....didn't mean to vent)

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

When I post, I expect to give a partial answer, be wrong and corrected or be ignored. Few answers that I have read here fulfill anyone's quest for truth. One past contributor could hit an answer right on the mark and did so on many occasions. His style and lack of patience with the rest of us created quite a stir. I suppose he needed a place all of his own. Even though it is a group effort with a few discourtesies, an adequate answer generally floats to the surface.

 

Most that come here lurk rather than share. That is too bad because there is a sense of community and a way to share resources. At anyone time, all a person has to do is pick a subject, do a search and good to great answers will magically appear by the boatload. I don't worry about how a person will handle that kind of wealth. Good information can be mishandled as well as bad information whether it is a Newbie Momma or an old Codger. Information doesnt kill ideas, people do. I trust people to act within some kind of ethical boundaries when speaking or using information, especially in a Scouting program.

 

What happens to us as we are trained is a question regarding change. How we handle change and if we are ready for change is a standard problem at anytime. Since we deal with people and lots of them, then we must be ready for the next turn in the road. There will always be one and then another and so, on. FB

 

 

 

 

 

[Vicki 11]

>I have two women asking my opinion, so they can spend 30 minutes telling my why I'm wrong and why their way is better. If you don't want my honest opinions, then don't make me waste my time thinking about it. (sorry....didn't mean to vent)>

 

Gotta tell you, that particular knife cuts both ways. Can't think of the number of times I've thought that of DH or some other (male) leader. So can we keep this elevated and out of the sexist claptrap realm?

 

I generally post here because I have an honest question to which I am seeking an answer (with flak vest and thick skin filter on) or because I feel I may be able to contribute.

 

I try to only occasionally post something that could be perceived negatively:

[CalicoPenn 729]

Some of us (guilty as charged!) post here as an opportunity to tell our stories to a whole new set of people - folks who haven't heard them or lived them with us before - and I'd say most of us who do this do it as a way of imparting some kind of knowledge/wisdom learned along the way - and of hearing the stories and ideas of others.

 

I see the forum as a late night, scouts in the sack, have coffee/tea/hot cocoa around the fire bull session (with a very large campfire!) with interested older scouts hanging with the adults and contributing their perspective on things too. Some folks may go off on a rant for a while, but spirited discussion is good at times too - keeps the blood flowing.

 

Now this reminds me of the time..........

 

CalicoPenn

 

ps. And of course there is the thrill of signing in and seeing the word "Senior" before the words Forum Member.(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

[Chippewa29 13]

I'll have to agree that I often post to see if my opinion is shared by other Scouters. There are times when I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing or not. However, there are times when I'm genuinely perplexed by something and need some opinions on what I should do.

 

It always feels good to be able to unload and feel a part of a community where we can frankly discuss things. It would be nice to do it more often with the other Scouters that are local to me, but you don't always want to be discussing your issues with people that are so close geographically.

[gwd-scouter 11]

When I first joined the forum my posts were almost exclusively questions as a new Scoutmaster trying to revive a failing troop. I also shared the ups and downs of our progress over the past months. We are now closing in on the two year mark and I enjoy posting some of our success stories. I still feel there are others here with much more knowledge and experience than I, but I am trying to become more of a giver to the forum than a taker.

 

I thank everyone for your time and thoughtful responses to my queries. If nothing else, reading posts on this forum have helped me realize that the condition of our troop is not unique, that the slowness of our troop's progress is not necessarily a failure on my part as SM, and that improvements can be made through learning from mistakes, positive attitude, perseverence and a healthy sense of humor!