camp usage

[jcousino]

How many weeks and how full were your camps this summer? Did they make a profit or not?

[Tron]

Unknown at this time. Most camps in my neck of the woods will continue to run traditional resident camp until the last week of July or first week of August. I can say that the camp my troop went to this year was at capacity the week we were there. Reports were that they are running an extra week this year and that so far the camp has been at and is scheduled at capacity. 

[PACAN]

My friend's camp runs 3 weeks of Scouts BSA at less than 50%.  Don't know the $$ side.

[Double Eagle]

The local neighboring council as 5 weeks of resident camp and expect 906 youth this year.  60% of those troops attending are out of council.  A different neighboring council merged, sold their camp, and their normally attending troops went elsewhere.  The mergers and selling of property is not a success story for SA.  

On a side note, I attended the national unit commissioner fast start webinar and a discussion was on growth.  WOSM had a 14% gain the past 4yrs, while SA has been losing about 7%.  From 2025-2025 SA lost about 150,000 youth.  Just something to think about whether our programs are relevant or valuable to youth. 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, Double Eagle said:

 The mergers and selling of property is not a success story for SA.  

Folks invest blood, sweat, tears, time, and treasure in their camps. So when one is sold, it feels like a betrayal, and you no longer trust the organization.

[Jameson76]

Not sure of current statistics, but, there was a an analysis done on Scout camp usage by Scouting couple of years ago.  No I do not have the study or the data, only had a conversation with some camping folks.

Basically: A camps weekly capacity multiplied weeks open and then that capacity divided into actual usage

• For example 350 participants capacitgy x 5 weeks = 1,750 capacity and dividing that into actual, for example 1,250, you yield 71.4%

The result was maybe 36% usage or so, all Scouting properties (local / regional / national).  And some of those are likely closed now.  There was one we went to in Tennessee that was 5 weeks and now is 3.  Was not sure how they staffed and made it work with 5, still wonder about 3 weeks and profit and effort for that.

[Tron]

2 hours ago, Double Eagle said:

The local neighboring council as 5 weeks of resident camp and expect 906 youth this year.  60% of those troops attending are out of council.  A different neighboring council merged, sold their camp, and their normally attending troops went elsewhere.  The mergers and selling of property is not a success story for SA.  

On a side note, I attended the national unit commissioner fast start webinar and a discussion was on growth.  WOSM had a 14% gain the past 4yrs, while SA has been losing about 7%.  From 2025-2025 SA lost about 150,000 youth.  Just something to think about whether our programs are relevant or valuable to youth. 

 

That's a low amount, the smallest resident camp in my state runs 2000+ through each season, the largest runs 3600 at 75% capacity (from what I can tell).

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Folks invest blood, sweat, tears, time, and treasure in their camps. So when one is sold, it feels like a betrayal, and you no longer trust the organization.

Understandable. Perception is reality to the individual but doesn't necessarily constitute the true reality. There is one message from national that has been consistent and absolutely true in my opinion: We have too many properties and the properties we have are vastly underutilized. If you had access to the reservation calendar for your most local camp do you think it has had 50% capacity or higher in any cobbled together 8 week period in the last year? Do you think your most local camp has hosted scouts, any scouts, 25 weeks of the past year? If your area is like my area, that answer is without a doubt an absolute no. 

5 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Not sure of current statistics, but, there was a an analysis done on Scout camp usage by Scouting couple of years ago.  No I do not have the study or the data, only had a conversation with some camping folks.

Basically: A camps weekly capacity multiplied weeks open and then that capacity divided into actual usage

• For example 350 participants capacitgy x 5 weeks = 1,750 capacity and dividing that into actual, for example 1,250, you yield 71.4%

The result was maybe 36% usage or so, all Scouting properties (local / regional / national).  And some of those are likely closed now.  There was one we went to in Tennessee that was 5 weeks and now is 3.  Was not sure how they staffed and made it work with 5, still wonder about 3 weeks and profit and effort for that.

I know what you're talking about. Many from national have spoke of this at national and territory meetings. The other part of this was something like resident camps need to run Memorial Day to Labor Day or they won't be profitable. 12 weeks of resident camp is the ideal when calculating total capacity. 

[Eagle94-A1]

8 minutes ago, Tron said:

Understandable. Perception is reality to the individual but doesn't necessarily constitute the true reality. There is one message from national that has been consistent and absolutely true in my opinion: We have too many properties and the properties we have are vastly underutilized. If you had access to the reservation calendar for your most local camp do you think it has had 50% capacity or higher in any cobbled together 8 week period in the last year? Do you think your most local camp has hosted scouts, any scouts, 25 weeks of the past year? If your area is like my area, that answer is without a doubt an absolute no. 

I do not know, nor care about my local summer camp, despite being a former staffer. It was not a great experience as a staffer, and was worst the only time I went there as a camper. I cannot recommend it. And it has gotten worse since I went from folks who have been recently. IMHO, and that of many others, it is the camp that should have been sold. especially since any time there is a major storm, there is a lot of damage to the camp due to its location.

Now the local council camp that was sold was a different story. Because of it's location, folks from 3 councils used it. Heck I remember trying to plan a district event, and the prime weekend was booked by another council for their district event! Also because of it's location, units travelling up and down the East Coast would use it. I do not know the attendance stats on capacity and usage. But I do know the camp made enough to pay all its bills year round AND support the summer camp. That camp actually made money for the council.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

19 minutes ago, Tron said:

I know what you're talking about. Many from national have spoke of this at national and territory meetings. The other part of this was something like resident camps need to run Memorial Day to Labor Day or they won't be profitable. 12 weeks of resident camp is the ideal when calculating total capacity. 

I guess folks at national don't realize that some places have school until mid-June.