SM and CC seem full speed ahead to promote incompetent Scout

[Armymutt]

I mentioned previously the 15 y/o Scout whose mom wants him to make Eagle by summer.  Nice enough kid, but incompetent as hell.  Tonight was his Second Class BOR.  He still doesn't know the Scout Law and Scout Oath.  The SM acts like this kid is the second coming of Green Bar Bill.  The CC, his wife, doesn't seem to have an issue with it.  The SM has previously complained, at length, about incompetent Scouts.  I can't figure this one out.  They are essentially paving a path for him.  The SM and his SPL son set up the new patrols so that it was all but assured that the Scout would be the PL.  Where in the rank progression path is a speed bump for slowing things down until competence is gained?  Is this Scout going to be awarded Eagle without knowing the basics of Scouting?  We have an 11 y/o who could stomp this kid into the ground when it comes to Scouting knowledge.  

[DuctTape]

If the SM is signing things off, thrn there really isn't anything that you can do. It is to bad the adults are denying the scout a real growth opportunity. Only thing you can do is become SM yourself.

 

Edit: perhaps talk with the SM about having the PLs teach their patrols some of the second class skills. The SM and ASMs will only observe.  Have him watch this scout. 

 

Encourage patrol v patrol games using the skills.

Edited 9 hours ago by DuctTape
Added more

[Armymutt]

47 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

If the SM is signing things off, thrn there really isn't anything that you can do. It is to bad the adults are denying the scout a real growth opportunity. Only thing you can do is become SM yourself.

 

Edit: perhaps talk with the SM about having the PLs teach their patrols some of the second class skills. The SM and ASMs will only observe.  Have him watch this scout. 

 

Encourage patrol v patrol games using the skills.

I volunteered to be the SM.  I'm getting weird vibes.  The SM stated that he is not going to be the SM after the first of the year.  Of all the ASMs, I'm kind of the front runner - proactive, understand the program, grew up in it, advocating for the patrol method circa nineth edition of the handbook.  When I mentioned it to the SM, he said, "well, maybe I'll stay on a little longer."  Having the CC and the SM from the same family is generally considered bad, unless you have no other options.  I'm trying to get us to have 3/4 of the month be patrol meetings so that the patrols can develop the skills and the leadership.  I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle.

[Tron]

What they're really doing is setting this scout up for failure at his EBOR. Are your EBORS handled inhouse with a district rep or out of house with 1 troop rep?

[Armymutt]

They are handled at the district level.  I don't think anyone from the troop sits on them.  

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Adding to DuctTape's suggestion, also start doing a lot of bystanding (neutrally voicing what is happening in order to offer perspective for the group) on the subject of the skill level of all troop members with a special diligence for the 11yo and the scout in question. Saying what everyone but the SM and CC see out loud makes it harder to ignore and sometimes "makes it real" for people.

You may not be able to stop it, but you can shine a bright light of group attention on what they are doing (without voiced judgement) they will have to do what they are doing without being able to face that they're doing it. It might be enough for them to see through whatever mental formation is driving them to make this mistake.

[Armymutt]

One of the questions that comes to mind is, does a Scout have to know the Law and Oath after achieving the rank of Scout?  It's no longer a requirement for advancement.  We all take it for granted that a Scout would know the two things we say at the beginning of every meeting, but is it a requirement?  I suspect they are not doing BORS correctly.  My wife is a committee member, soon to be the Advancement Chair.  She said they don't have a discussion with the Scout not present.  Another problem is, they try to cram all the BORs into one hour.  Last night we had 4 for Tenderfoot and 1 for Second Class.  

[Eagle94-A1]

I can tell you it is extremely disheartening to other Scouts, especially special needs Scouts who are busting butt to meet requirements, to see someone who is unable to do basic skills, i.e. stuffing a sleeping bag, setting up a tent, etc,  wearing a Life Rank on their pocket. The folded troop's SM "don't understand the importance of camping." And whether the Scout is telling me just what he remembers the SM saying, or the SM actually abridging requirements,  but He says that SM told him all he needed to do foir XYZ MBs were one of the requirements. Family is pushing for Eagle and family is getting frustrated that we are showing requirements and giving workbooks.

As for the Eagle Board, there is not much they can do. National will grant it and say something along the lines of "you do not penalize the Scout for the mistakes of the adult." 

[Eagle94-A1]

Forgot to add, an entire district advancement committee, which denied the Scout his Eagle and gave him a plan to earn it properly, resigned in protest over National's decision to give it to him.

[InquisitiveScouter]

It is easy to lie, cheat, and steal your way to Eagle Scout...

I have seen many a "Paper Eagle Scout" over the years.  It has literally become akin to "pay your fee, get your degree."  If you keep your membership up, attend a few summer camps where you sit around a picnic table and listen to a 15 year old talk about a merit badge, and have your parents do your project, you, too, can be given an Eagle Scout rank patch.

When these come to me for assistance, I hold to the requirements.  Nothing more, and nothing less.  I do not sign requirements if I believe the Scout has not done them as written, and have had some parents be quite upset with me when I refuse to participate in helping them maintain the facade.  They have always found someone else with, let's say, a different standard of integrity, who will sign off stuff...   My stance is always that "I am only responsible for my own actions."

 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

@Armymutt To answer your question directly, my personal NSHO is that if it was a requirement for a previous rank you still need to know it going forward. Other the intuitive sense that this should be so when it comes to skills, if scouts could forget how to pitch a tent, knots, cook at camp, pack a pack, etc it would make high adventure dangerous. The whole enterprise requires building and adding skills to the ones you've already got. It's like math, you never get to forget the commutative property or multiplication tables just because you're more "advanced". Part of "more advanced" is having the basics completely down.

[DuctTape]

If the program does not continuously use the skills from T-1st, then the program itself is lacking. Reqs are only one-and-done when the program is lacking. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

14 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

If the program does not continuously use the skills from T-1st, then the program itself is lacking. Reqs are only one-and-done when the program is lacking. 

Agree, if they participate... we have some Scouts with sparse attendance at meetings and rare attendance on outings.  They do things for advancement purposes only, because they (and their parents) focus on advancement as the end, and not the means.

If I was the benevolent dictator, I'd not renew many of our Scouts' registrations each year, due to lack of participation... that, in order to focus more of our resources on the ones that do come and participate.

[Armymutt]

50 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

If the program does not continuously use the skills from T-1st, then the program itself is lacking. Reqs are only one-and-done when the program is lacking. 

We don't get more repetitive training than the oath and law.  This is a kid who has been in the troop three months.  He came to us from another troop.  During his BOR, it came out that he wasn't aware he earned Fingerprinting MB at summer camp and doesn't recall the classes.  I can recall the exact setting, location, and principles in attendance at my Fingerprinting MB in 1991.  How this kid can't recall his from Aug 2025 is beyond me.

[jcousino]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Forgot to add, an entire district advancement committee, which denied the Scout his Eagle and gave him a plan to earn it properly, resigned in protest over National's decision to give it to him.

Sorry, it led to that. The advancement rules for bor retesting are clear; they serve more for feedback on the process. That all the way up and including the E-board once it's signed off, it's done.

I'm not sure why, perhaps because it's a small new troop, but why are adults doing most of the skill checks off?

EAGLE BOR  are more likely to get the Scout to tell their scouting story and future plans.