Pack "soft merger" logistics question - Registered den leaders requirements

[FireStone]

My pack is taking in another local pack that has had dwindling membership. We're not merging officially, yet, but the other pack will attend all of our den and pack meetings and activities. Packs will remain separate in registration, finance, charter, rosters, etc. Just functionally work together. 

What is the requirement for number of registered den leaders needed for both packs if we're working together? Do both packs still need the requisite 2 registered DLs per den? So if our Bears den has the other pack's Bears den at our den meetings, does the other pack's Bears den still need registered leaders? 

Edited July 30, 2025 by FireStone

[Tron]

You're going to need a handful of things. First you will need council permission to hold joint unit events (joint den meetings count as joint event). Both units will need to provide 2 registered leaders per event. 

So assuming you are holding joint den meetings you will need 4 leaders, 2 from each unit. 

[fred8033]

I am a rule follower.  It's my personality.  At some point, it gets ridiculous.  But, Tron sounds right.   

Consider a full merger instead.  Sitting on the fence about merging causes it's own trouble (coordination, emotions, cost of who pays for what, etc).  A full merger is easier and better in the long run.   And, you don't have to ask permission.  It's just a member transfer from Pack X to Pack Y.   As for assets (tents, cash, etc), Pack X donates their assets to Pack Y.  No one will ask and it works smoother that way. 

Edited July 31, 2025 by fred8033

[Tron]

4 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I am a rule follower.  It's my personality.  At some point, it gets ridiculous.  But, Tron sounds right.   

Consider a full merger instead.  Sitting on the fence about merging causes it's own trouble (coordination, emotions, cost of who pays for what, etc).  A full merger is easier and better in the long run.   And, you don't have to ask permission.  It's just a member transfer from Pack X to Pack Y.   As for assets (tents, cash, etc), Pack X donates their assets to Pack Y.  No one will ask and it works smoother that way. 

If you go this route, full merger, there is a form you need to get your charter org to sign to allow you to give your items to the other pack/charter org. 

[SiouxRanger]

On 7/30/2025 at 1:27 PM, Tron said:

First you will need council permission to hold joint unit events

Where does one find this rule?

Thanks.

[NealOnWheels]

On 7/31/2025 at 10:00 PM, SiouxRanger said:

Where does one find this rule?

Thanks.

The only reference I can find is...

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/#:~:text=Local council approval is needed,have approval from their council.

[SiouxRanger]

Thanks-looks like the right rule to me.

[fred8033]

On 7/31/2025 at 3:16 PM, Tron said:

If you go this route, full merger, there is a form you need to get your charter org to sign to allow you to give your items to the other pack/charter org. 

I suspect you are referring to the form used when changing charters.  I've used that form to change charters.  The charter org has to yield ownership of the scouting unit (i.e. the unit number).  I suspect that specific form does not apply in this case as long as the departing unit is disbanding and members just join the target unit.

As for asking the charter org and scouting council for permission to give scouting property of the unit, this hits the boundary for me with my "following the rules".  Charter orgs and the scouting council almost never help raise funds or manage the finances or assets of the unit.  Charter orgs are rarely involved.  ... As one non-profit can donate to another non-profit, the unit leadership chooses to donate if they choose.

Recommendation:  Be careful asking too many people thoughts and opinions on it.  You will get more opinions and emotions on it.  Best you can do is work to make a smooth quiet transition and focus on creating great experiences for the scouts.

[Tron]

3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I suspect you are referring to the form used when changing charters.  I've used that form to change charters.  The charter org has to yield ownership of the scouting unit (i.e. the unit number).  I suspect that specific form does not apply in this case as long as the departing unit is disbanding and members just join the target unit.

As for asking the charter org and scouting council for permission to give scouting property of the unit, this hits the boundary for me with my "following the rules".  Charter orgs and the scouting council almost never help raise funds or manage the finances or assets of the unit.  Charter orgs are rarely involved.  ... As one non-profit can donate to another non-profit, the unit leadership chooses to donate if they choose.

Recommendation:  Be careful asking too many people thoughts and opinions on it.  You will get more opinions and emotions on it.  Best you can do is work to make a smooth quiet transition and focus on creating great experiences for the scouts.

But getting that form signed and transferring ownership formally will protect the unit from legal action. I don't know about this unit, but some units have thousands of dollars worth of equipment and cash on hand. 

[scoutldr]

I also see liability issues regarding adult leadership.  A charter organization selects and approves the adult leaders that are allowed to participate with the youth in their unit, with concurrence from Council. The easiest thing to do is have the youth (and adults, if you need them) transfer their membership to your unit.  This does not transfer funds or equipment, however.

[Gossmaaf]

We went through this not even 2 years ago (and the help here was fantastic).    If the Pack coming in is dwindling, there's two choices for the District, 1. Keep it as a separate unit, or 2. Merge.  If they keep it, it's not your concern that's a District Issue, but in my experience the unit will probably die if that is the path.  The other option is to recognize that Scouting isn't about the number of units, but the number of scouts in it.  So If they Merge, don't do a soft-merge it adds cost and logistical complexity.  We went through that for about 6 months until we got District permission to merge.  You don't "merge" what you do is all the scouts and leaders transfer over to the new unit, then assets are (after approval from Chartering Org) rolled over to the new unit or given back to the CO.  

Now, at all times you need to not just roll in problems, so the key is keeping adults engaged from the smaller unit.   I required that one be a key three at all times (COR is always taken in that scenario so they can either be CM or CC).  We eventually consolidated resources and materials.  Recruitment is now more difficult than before.  It also took too long for District to agree to letting the Unit close and that caused majority of the unit to finish dying so only a few transferred and stayed with scouting (like 4 out of 15 scouts).  

I

Merge before the units struggle further, and don't do a Soft-Merger except to make sure the two units will culturally align before consolidating.

If you want ideas of how we merged, I can add further details of what we did/didn't do, but overall our unit is just as strong as it was, but didn't come without headaches and navigating that process.