Sydney Ireland on the Name Change of Scouting America

[Jameson76]

Interesting perspective - A 115-year-old leadership development organization

I have never considered the BSA a leadership development organization.  Sure, there are chances to learn experience leadership, as there are opportunities to experience camping, nature study, swimming, cooking, archery, etc etc

Scouting should be about helping youth realize THEY can actually do things, they can be in charge of who they are, they don't need permission to succeed.  In more current lingo we teach youth to adult. 

No 11 year old wants to join a leadership organization.  Now might they be interested in a group that does activities and adventures that is run by the youth, more likely

[BinTharDunThat]

Its important to recognize what we are selling and to whom.

Your parents may be more willing to allocate resources to Scouting than ours.  For us, when selling BSA to parents -who can put their kids in year-round sports or academic camps and who want their kid to get into college and be successful thereafter - we differentiate BSA from those activities because only BSA is experiential leadership where the program provides each Scout exposure to potential future vocations (Engineering MB, Law MB, Art MB) and potential hobbies (Chess MB, as an example, not intending to denigrate Chess), i.e. "fun with a purpose."  Parents often push back on concepts of character-building ("We do that at home") or simply experiencing activities ("We can do that when we send our kid to summer camp").  We sell ISLT, NYLT and NAYLE to the parents.  We sell to parents the concept of their kids taking on more responsibility as leadership training, recognizing this means even more obligation for the parents, because we get buy-in.  We push the parents to engage with the Scouts on the program activities because that shows kids the value the kids put on the program.   
(I think BSA has recognized this for a while.  The Jim Lovell-BSA commercial - mid 1980s? - keys to "survival skills and leadership instinct")  

When we skill BSA to kids, its about youth-led fun activities.  

If we can't sell the program to adults with sufficient import as a reason to drive your kid to a weekly meeting, to potentially help with the Troop Committee or ASM Corps, or to otherwise allocate parent time to BSA, we seem to lose both the kids and the parents.

 

[Eagledad]

I saw a discussion on another forum a few weeks ago about a troop at summer camp picking the SPL for summer camp. The troop was split into a boys program and a separate girls program. There was an assumption the troop would have 2 SPLs during the summer camp, but the SM picked only one SPL from the boys troop. I'm sure there was more to this, but you can guess how the discussion went. The SM was assumed to be old-school and out of touch with today's program. Only I stood up for a SM who would use a single leader to for the whole troop.

Because the boys SPL was selected, the forum participants automatically assumed the SM was anti female. And they called him old-school because he refused two SPLs. They could’not, wouldn’t, consider the gender might not have anything to do with the decision. 

It took me years to develop the sales technique for selling parents the BSA patrol method program where their sons came home from camps a different more mature person.  I can't even imagine selling that program to adults who are more concerned about equal gender presentation in a program where the Aims and Methods have nothing to do with gender.

I watched 100s of really wonderful adults grow from our program. The program of scouts learning from the good and bad choices works.

I'm thinking of changing my Scouter.com title to Old_School_SM, and wearing it with pride.

Barry

[skeptic]

I am reminded that "old dogs can learn new tricks", it just often takes longer or comeuppance.  Anecdote I found amusing recently was about a granddaughter that had been doted on by a grandfather for years.  Then one day he was brought up short by this barely teen girl when she, in no uncertain terms, made it clear to him that she could do almost anything a "boy" could do, and maybe better.  And if he thought that made her somehow out of touch or NOT able to try some things, or continue to challenge boys, then he was not the GF she thought he was.  Live and learn, and maybe even raise the shades on stuff that is new, and different.  

 

[scoutldr]

If that SM were really "old school", he would have followed his training and  the troop would have elected the SPL.  There is only ONE SPL per unit.  So, if there are troops operating as co-ed, gender shouldn't matter.

[RememberSchiff]

I agree with Ms. Ireland’s statement that BSA is a “leadership development organization”, though IMHO it is much more.

My sales pitch to parents has been Scouting is a laboratory for leadership experiments. Scouts have successes and failures. Lessons are learned, leader skills developed. However, becoming a leader is a Scout’s decision both for the Scouts who want to lead and the Scouts selecting their leader.

No doubt, EagleDad’s pitch has been more successful than mine. Sure I get parental nods which are soon followed my kids needs a leadership for this rank or when is it my kid’s TURN to be SPL my kid’s PL should not be a PL…

Leaderrship is not a singular approach nor skill like tying a square knot, it is dynamic. Leadership adjusts depending on the activity (the plan), group, and situation (in the field where the plan always needs tweaking or replacement with Plan B).

Is leadership top down or bottom up or both? Should we select leaders by their proven ability or personal attributes?

Back in the day, I was training with 7 other scouts for Philmont. Our adult advisor, an Eagle Scout and Philmont trekker, said he would observe and after 4 weekend outings select the PL and ASPL for Philmont. We were 15-16 year olds who had been PL’s or higher in our respective troops. Leadership positions were rotated during these training weekends which we planned ourselves. Some scouts were content to go through the leadership motions but a few wanted to be leaders, i.e,. they had a plan for Philmont and hence understood the need for training. After each weekend, our advisor separately debriefed each PL/ASPL.

My turn included gear checks, strenuous terrain, map exercises, and simulated first aid emergencies. I was not popular. In my debriefing, my advisor said Congratulations you are MY choice for Philmont PL. I declined as I felt I did not have the support of my patrol. So if I put it to a patrol vote and you win, will you accept? Unlikely but yes.

All 8 patrol members were on the ballot. Two members were cousins, three were from the same troop, and the other two were from another troop. Might as well vote for myself as no one else will. I won 8-0.

A leadership laboratory! A month later Philmont would be another kind of leadership laboratory. From that Philmont lab, I would say bottom up leadership is more sustainable than top down. Leadership Method and Patrol Method.

My $0.02,

Edited Sunday at 05:18 PM by RememberSchiff
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[Eagledad]

 

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Edited Sunday at 10:09 PM by Eagledad