Leader Position Training Requirements (All Branches)

[RememberSchiff]

Organized by branch and position with course numbers, names, and time length

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Position-Trained-Requirements-Jun2025.pdf

Note Youth Protection Training (YPT) has been replaced with Safeguarding Youth Protection (SYT). 

https://www.scouting.org/training/youth-protection/

[Eagle94-A1]

Well I'm "UNTRAINED" again. Even though Scoutmaster Fundamentals has "No expiration date." This despite the fact I taught the SM Specific class multiple times when I was district Training Chair.

To the folks who came up with the idea of getting rid of SMF, I will quote one of my districts long serving volunteers, "I've forgotten more about Scouting than you ever learned, and I still know more than you do."

[InquisitiveScouter]

44 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well I'm "UNTRAINED" again. Even though Scoutmaster Fundamentals has "No expiration date." This despite the fact I taught the SM Specific class multiple times when I was district Training Chair.

To the folks who came up with the idea of getting rid of SMF, I will quote one of my districts long serving volunteers, "I've forgotten more about Scouting than you ever learned, and I still know more than you do."

Hey brother, there is a difference between UNTRAINED and UNTRAINABLE 😜 

With S21, Scoutmaster Fundamentals, you are "grandfathered" in.

Here's the update from BSA Training:  https://www.scouting.org/training/training-updates/

"Training Code S21 was retired following updates to the current requirements, which are now covered by S11 (Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills) and S24 (Scoutmaster Specific Online or Facilitated Training). These courses were separated to provide greater flexibility and accommodate individual schedules. We strongly encourage all Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters—including those who previously completed S21—to complete the latest training. Staying up to date ensures you are well-equipped to deliver the program as designed and effectively support the Scouts in your care."

Also, each time you teach a class, you should include your own name in the Training Attendance Report.  You get credit for those also.  If you taught the current S24, you can get a training bubba to put it in your records.  (Super Secret Squirrel Tip:  You can also get your unit level Training Manager, or a Key 3, to do this.)

[skeptic]

The first time a coding change put me in that position I asked the registrar to help.  Ours was able to simply adjust to new coding and I am again shown as trained, or over trained I suppose.  Occasional review is likely good anyway, I suppose.  My first training was way back in the mid seventies and has seen Woodbadge and Woodbadge staffing; at least five course at PTC, and numerous online reviews and sit ins on some just for fun.  

[Eagle94-A1]

Registrar was of little help. Said they could not find my training sheets from when I taught. And they wanted proof i actually taught the course. And my copy of training records is MIA. I believe oldest transferred them to storage when he built my current computer..

@skeptic, remind me of a friend who is a longtime Scouter.  His records went MIA, and he not only taught courses at the council level, but was also PTC faculty.

[InquisitiveScouter]

5 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Registrar was of little help. Said they could not find my training sheets from when I taught. And they wanted proof i actually taught the course. And my copy of training records is MIA. I believe oldest transferred them to storage when he built my current computer..

@skeptic, remind me of a friend who is a longtime Scouter.  His records went MIA, and he not only taught courses at the council level, but was also PTC faculty.

Is your training status in my.scouting showing you as not trained?

[RememberSchiff]

On 6/7/2025 at 11:51 PM, RememberSchiff said:

Organized by branch and position with course numbers, names, and time length

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Position-Trained-Requirements-Jun2025.pdf

Note Youth Protection Training (YPT) has been replaced with Safeguarding Youth Protection (SYT). 

https://www.scouting.org/training/youth-protection/

I'm baffled.

1. The SM/ASM required training appears glaring incomplete both from an official/legal and an outdoors/adventure standpoint.

2. Course duration appears so short as to question content and usefulness.

Trained for what exactly?

My $0.02,

[InquisitiveScouter]

35 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

I'm baffled.

1. The SM/ASM required training appears glaring incomplete both from an official/legal and an outdoors/adventure standpoint.

2. Course duration appears so short as to question content and usefulness.

Trained for what exactly?

My $0.02,

You must also have S11 (IOLS) and SCO 800 (Hazardous Weather) to be trained. (From the red notes below.)

Now, in the G2SS, you'll find that for Cub camping, you MUST have one leader who is BALOO trained.  There is no such directive on the Scouts, BSA side for IOLS.

Hazardous Weather (and must be current!!) is required for all programs.

The classroom versions of SM specific are better than the computer modules... You cannot ask questions or get more clarifying information from your computer modules...(yet)

 

[RememberSchiff]

...is that all there is? ...something is missing  (I hear a Peggy Lee song in my head)

Saw no listing on Safe Swim, Safety Afloat.

There should be a Head Table - Required Training for All. YPT/SYT  should go there!

First Aid training?  Basic First Aid/CPR  for Cub Scout Leaders. Beyond that Wilderness First Aid. 

We can do better than 10 min brain dumps. We learn more from our mistakes and mistakes of others - discuss incident report examples.

Is training leaders to deliver the Program about learning process or preparing for adventure?

Another $0.01,

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

...is that all there is? ...something is missing  (I hear a Peggy Lee song in my head)

Saw no listing on Safe Swim, Safety Afloat.

There should be a Head Table - Required Training for All. YPT/SYT  should go there!

First Aid training?  Basic First Aid/CPR  for Cub Scout Leaders. Beyond that Wilderness First Aid. 

We can do better than 10 min brain dumps. We learn more from our mistakes and mistakes of others - discuss incident report examples.

Is training leaders to deliver the Program about learning process or preparing for adventure?

Another $0.01,

I totally agree with you.

But, those trainings are program specific.

For example, G2SS requires Safe Swim Defense (SSD) only for a swimming activity.

Safety Afloat only for boating stuff.

Climb On Safely only for unit level climbing activities.

Range Activities Safety only for unit level range stuff

First Aid and CPR only for Safety Afloat, and not for SSD (a disconnect, IMO)

Wilderness First Aid is only recommended, not required.  Well, required by BSA High Adventure bases, but that is the only program that requires it

A well-informed unit leader has all the above.  But a TRAINED (for the position) leader is not required to have them, by BSA standards.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

...is that all there is? ...something is missing  (I hear a Peggy Lee song in my head)

Saw no listing on Safe Swim, Safety Afloat.

There should be a Head Table - Required Training for All. YPT/SYT  should go there!

First Aid training?  Basic First Aid/CPR  for Cub Scout Leaders. Beyond that Wilderness First Aid. 

We can do better than 10 min brain dumps. We learn more from our mistakes and mistakes of others - discuss incident report examples.

Is training leaders to deliver the Program about learning process or preparing for adventure?

Another $0.01,

We track all of these at the unit level with a conditionally formatted spreadsheet.

Here's just the first 14 of our 30+ registered adults.  You can tell who the Committee Members are 😜 Well, those who never go camping...

Fourth one down is mine   When you are within 30 days of expiration, you highlight YELLOW, and our Unit Training Manager gets on your case.  When you expire, you highlight RED, and then I get on your case   And if it is required for an event, you do not go as an adult until you get your stuff done.  We need capability and backup for contingencies.

SYT (Required)	Hazardous Weather SCO_800 (Required for All Outdoor Events)	CPR/AED N06 (Desired/ Required for Specific Events)	Safe Swim Defense SCO_801 or SSD (Desired/ Required for Specific Events)	Safety Afloat SCO_802 or SA (Desired/ Required for Specific Events)	Climb On Safely SCO_804 or S74 (Desired/ Required for Specific Events)	Drive Safely SCO_805 (Desired)	Wilderness First Aid N02 (Desired/ Required for Specific Events)
5-Jan-24	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO
23-Apr-25	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO
13-Nov-23	6-Jan-25	NO	16-Jul-21	15-Jul-19	NO	NO	NO
11-Aug-23	15-Feb-24	7-May-25	20-May-25	20-May-25	13-Feb-24	3-Oct-24	6-Apr-24
2-Jul-24	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO
30-Dec-24	18-Mar-24	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO
7-Apr-25	20-Mar-24	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO
2-Jun-24	7-Dec-24	21-Dec-24	14-Dec-22	13-Dec-22	13-Dec-22	17-Aug-23	11-Mar-23
25-Nov-24	30-Apr-25	7-May-25	30-Apr-25	7-Jun-25	7-Jun-25	30-Apr-25	NO
31-Mar-24	23-Sep-23	23-Aug-23	19-Jun-24	19-Jun-24	NO	7-Jun-25	23-Aug-23
8-Mar-25	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO	NO
14-May-25	1-Oct-23	21-Dec-24	12-Jul-21	12-Jul-21	14-Feb-24	NO	30-Dec-22
2-Jul-24	12-Jun-23	11-Aug-22	4-Aug-22	8-Sep-21	17-May-21	NO	23-Apr-23
13-Jun-23	13-Jun-23	23-Apr-23	NO	NO	NO	NO	27-May-23

[Eagle94-A1]

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Is your training status in my.scouting showing you as not trained?

Correct. Even though Scoutmaster Fundamentals never expires, it  is no longer considered a code for "Trained Status." I forgot as a Key Three I can add the missing training. So I added the date of the last time I taught the Scoutmaster Specific class. Problem fixed.

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

1. The SM/ASM required training appears glaring incomplete both from an official/legal and an outdoors/adventure standpoint.

2. Course duration appears so short as to question content and usefulness.

Trained for what exactly?

My $0.02,

1. Understatement. IOLS has left out a lot of info in older HBs and FBs. Last time I taught IOLS, the syllabus left out so much information, that I had handouts on additional information from older HBs and FBs. And the last syllabus I looked at took out even more information! I do not know who is creating training content, but they need to look at Green Bar Bill's work.

2. I too question the usefulness. 1:30 total for SM Training! When I did SMF, the Troop Meeting section, which is now 10 minutes long, Was an 90+ Minutes as it simulated an actual troop meeting with Pre Opening, Opening,  Instruction, Patrol Meeting, Inter-patrol Competition, and Closing.

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Is training leaders to deliver the Program about learning process or preparing for adventure?

IMHO, it is more about process than preparing for adventure. Which is a mistake. Scouts want adventure.

 

 

[Tron]

Just perusing the discussion here, so burned out on training arguments. Per the charter agreement and adult registration paperwork the SM is supposed to be position trained. It's not in the GTSS for some reason, and since most leaders never read the charter, bylaws, or paper registration form it gets overlooked. 

National is finally starting to look at this stuff, unit dashboards now focus on CC and Unit Leader being trained. Councils are now being evaluated on the percent of direct contact leaders who are position trained. Sort of a tie in to the UK scouting discussion that was popping in another thread; in the UK position specific training is required or they just drop you (100% trained leader status is one of the reasons why UK scouts has few units, and why it is considered more elite to get in). 

[DuctTape]

We often lament the lack of District and/or Council personnel (including commissioners) involvement at the Unit level. 

We have an opportunity for changing this AND increasing both hands-on/in-person training.

Send the district/council personnel to unit meetings/events to conduct trainings on a regular basis. 

This will accomplish more than just those two opportunities, it will also:

-increase visibility from district/council.

-demonstrate to scouts that adults are also "advancing".

-separate the adults from scouts during the scouting event.

-allow district/council to observe the unit in action.

and more.

[InquisitiveScouter]

15 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

We often lament the lack of District and/or Council personnel (including commissioners) involvement at the Unit level. 

We have an opportunity for changing this AND increasing both hands-on/in-person training.

Send the district/council personnel to unit meetings/events to conduct trainings on a regular basis. 

This will accomplish more than just those two opportunities, it will also:

-increase visibility from district/council.

-demonstrate to scouts that adults are also "advancing".

-separate the adults from scouts during the scouting event.

-allow district/council to observe the unit in action.

and more.

@DuctTape for National Commissioner!

It's been a while, and just needed saying 😜