The future of the BSA

[Ojoman 157]

With a roughly 50 year history of membership declines behind us, the losses of donors and United Way/corporate support from the leadership standards issues of the 80's to early 2000's and more recently the huge negative campaign of the past several years by law firms that resulted in the bankruptcy and loss of trust on the part of many of our chartered partners not to mention the withdrawal of the LDS church and the impact that COVID had, I have to question the ability of BSA to recover. 

With the dramatically increased costs of registration, uniforms and supplies and activities, it would seem that our programs are being priced away from a substantial number of families. Add to costs is the massive loss of volunteers and the failure or inability to attract new, younger volunteers as well as parents that don't step up at the unit level. 

Today there are far fewer councils and districts and a fraction of the unit serving professionals that we enjoyed just 20 or 30 years ago. In many areas the BSA is serving less than 1% of the available youth and in low income areas entire school districts have no units within their boundaries. My council in Syracuse had 11 districts and now has 3. One merged district has around 20 school districts, over 50 elementary and middle schools plus private and parochial schools and only 37 total packs and troops. 

This begs the question, can the BSA rebuild and re-establish itself as a preeminent youth program? Frankly, while I believe it is the best, most valuable activity for youth I don't see the leadership to accomplish what needs to be done. I'd be interested in what others feel about the present situation and thoughts on the steps and direction that needs to be taken to grow the BSA programs and services.  

[Eagle1993 2161]

It absolutely can.  I look at the UK Scouts Association... They have far more scouts per capital, were growing pre COVID (and have started to rebound), have a large waiting list of scouts and a transparent/reasonable sized board with great focus on what youth need today.

Or... We could go the way of Scouts Canada.  I work with several Canadians... most don't realize scouting exist anymore.

I think major action is needed to save scouts, but so far only see deck chairs being rearranged. 

 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

One of the challenges as I see it, at least in my area, is that everyone thinks the bankruptcy is over. You tell them we still need to deal with the appeals process, and folks think you are a naysayer or rumormonger.  But now we have this, which may affect COs and Councils. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-scrutinize-purdue-pharma-bankruptcy-settlement-2023-08-10/  To quote Han Solo, et al, "I have a bad feeling about this."

26 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

With the dramatically increased costs of registration, uniforms and supplies and activities, it would seem that our programs are being priced away from a substantial number of families. Add to costs is the massive loss of volunteers and the failure or inability to attract new, younger volunteers as well as parents that don't step up at the unit level.

Understatement. right now only 2 Scouts in my unit are paying their own registration and council fees. everyone else is either using an insurance program, or have a unit scholarship. I know folks compare Scouting to sports and saying it is a deal. But there are families that can barely afford Scouting, even with assistance, and in no way can pay for sports.

As for volunteers, I know a lot of old timers are getting tired. We see the mess BSA is in, offer ideas to improve the situation, and are ignored at best. Plus in my area there is a history of verbal abuse of volunteers, and they walk away. Plus the increase in fees also affects volunteers. inflation keeps rising, but my salary is not keeping up.

37 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

This begs the question, can the BSA rebuild and re-establish itself as a preeminent youth program? Frankly, while I believe it is the best, most valuable activity for youth I don't see the leadership to accomplish what needs to be done.

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think major action is needed to save scouts, but so far only see deck chairs being rearranged.

Sadly I agree. I have no confidence in council and national professionals anymore. Locally, I asked about the new membership process and was told to keep doing what we have always done, pay the council office. I think National came out with direct payments scheme, before they had a system in place, or even thought how it would affect units.. Would not be the first time BSA created something without having things in place. Anyone else remember when Venturing split from Exploring? I can understand issuing Venturing, BSA strips for the Exploring BSA shirts in stock, but no pants, shorts, belts, or socks for the first one to two years depending upon the item. Also anyone else remember when the Centennial Uniforms came out, and the chaos it caused>

[Ojoman 157]

4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

It absolutely can.  I look at the UK Scouts Association...

The UK has launched a massive campaign to recruit adults. I looked up my councils 990 forms on line and found that we have lost around 70+% of our registered adult leaders in the 4 years running up to 2022. It's pretty simple, no leaders, no program. I also read a copy of my councils 2022 membership plan issued in January of that year which called for each district to have a functioning membership committee. To date I don't think any of the 3 districts even have a chairman let alone a committee. The report was impressive (see attached) with a lot of good, even great information but unless implemented is worthless. I don't know how many people worked on it or had input but I hope that it gets resurrected and implemented as that would be a step in the right direction. 

2022 longhouse member plan.pdf

[Eagle1993 2161]

Volunteers are the life blood of the program.  Too often, the same volunteers are asked for more and more support over and over.  If you look who has the least free time to volunteer, it is parents.  They are busy working to earn enough money to support their family, save for retirement, pay off mortgages and college loans etc.  They are also the ones who typically coach their kids little league games and serve as unit leaders. 

Councils should focus on past scouts (18-30 year olds) and empty nest past scouters (55+) for the core of district/council leadership.  Instead, I am typically called multiple times a year to volunteer for district positions.  I simply cannot dedicate enough time.  I mentioned the idea of using NESA lists and was told that wasn't a great option.

 

[Jameson76 1485]

The challenge continues to be the group (professionals) that "lead" the program.  We had recent interactions with our DE as we asked questions about the new registration process.  Their responses were at best condescending and at worst arrogant and dismissive.  Our district is smaller with maybe 10 - 12 Troops and roughly the same number of packs.  It is rare that you get insight into what a company (pros-BSA) really thinks of it's customers (actual units).

The feedback referenced a very poor quality Cub Chat YouTube video and alluded to communications from National BSA.  Well there has not been anything official from BSA National and now our local council is acknowledging they have dropped the ball.  

11 hours ago, Ojoman said:

 which called for each district to have a functioning membership committee.

In the middle of the dressing down from our DE on daring to ask questions, he alluded to the the need for a membership chair / committee and maybe some of our unit's leaders would be interested....well, you ask so nice.

BSA seems to be actively driving away leaders

• Raising the membership rates
• New registration process
• YPT and registration for ANY adult that camps
• 1 night only for cub camping...NO WAIT....never mind
• Endless pleas to sell popcorn
• Endless pleas to sell camp cards
• Come to camp with your unit and we need you to also help run the camp you also paid to attend

We try to just run our unit, go camping, help youth (in our case boys) gain independence and confidence.  BSA keeps layering admin and other interference that takes our eye off that goal and sucks up time.

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

55 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

we need you to also help run the camp you also paid to attend

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this

[Ojoman 157]

3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Volunteers are the life blood of the program.  Too often, the same volunteers are asked for more and more support over and over.  If you look who has the least free time to volunteer, it is parents.  They are busy working to earn enough money to support their family, save for retirement, pay off mortgages and college loans etc.  They are also the ones who typically coach their kids little league games and serve as unit leaders. 

Councils should focus on past scouts (18-30 year olds) and empty nest past scouters (55+) for the core of district/council leadership.  Instead, I am typically called multiple times a year to volunteer for district positions.  I simply cannot dedicate enough time.  I mentioned the idea of using NESA lists and was told that wasn't a great option.

 

Sadly, most troops and packs today have the minimum number of volunteers to keep a charter. Often the unit leader and assistants wear multiple hats at the unit level as committee members.  We end up 'burning them out' by over working them and when they leave there is no one to replace them. The best folks for district leadership are often those whose kids have graduated from the program. They too often just figure their kid is out and so they 'drop our' too. Many, if asked, would serve. My dad became a unit commissioner after I 'graduated' from the troop and went off to college. We need to salvage those volunteers. 

[Ojoman 157]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

 

BSA seems to be actively driving away leaders

We try to just run our unit, go camping, help youth (in our case boys) gain independence and confidence.  BSA keeps layering admin and other interference that takes our eye off that goal and sucks up time.

Some (and perhaps much) of what you pointed out can be found in many districts/councils. We need to remember that 90% or more of program happens in the troop or pack. Enjoyable meetings and activities where the kids grow in the program with their friends should be the primary focus of unit leaders. The district and council can supply some experiences such as camporees and long term camp or family camp but the kids and their parents join and stay when their needs and interests are being met monthly. The council needs the units and should be supporting the volunteers and always in a positive way. Too often the words ,' I'm from the council and I'm here to help you' ring like the Ron Regan joke about the government. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

19 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

The best folks for district leadership are often those whose kids have graduated from the program. They too often just figure their kid is out and so they 'drop our' too. 

Agree. But sometimes they are ignored, told they do not know what they are talking about, yelled at, or cursed out at (yes that has happened). Sometimes the experienced folks say the heck with it. and quit.

15 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

 The district and council can supply some experiences such as camporees and long term camp or family camp but the kids and their parents join and stay when their needs and interests are being met monthly. The council needs the units and should be supporting the volunteers and always in a positive way. 

Sadly in some cases it has gotten to the point in some areas that no one wants to be involved in district/council activities. Why spend all the time, energy, emotion, and money to run an event and not be appreciated or respected. As for long term camp, some units do not go to their summer camp because the complaints are never resolved. In fact sometimes it gets worse. When former staffers do not want to send their troops to camp There is a problem. When one of the most gung-ho, Flavoraid drinking, pro-council summer camp staffer, and long term staffers quits after the first week of camp, there is a problem.

[Ojoman 157]

Years ago, as a council professional, I ran the entire cub summer program from a dozen day camps/firefly camps to 3 webelos and 3 cub parent weekends. One of my key volunteers (yes, every camp was run by volunteers) asked me, 'do you know why we all give up so much to do this?' and I said, 'Because you believe in the program'. And she said, 'No, it's because you thank us'. I think all of my volunteers knew that I both needed and treasured them. I learned the value of THANKS my first year in great part due to an outstanding council exec. But that is a longer story... 

 

[DannyG 69]

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

BSA seems to be actively driving away leaders

• Raising the membership rates
• New registration process
• YPT and registration for ANY adult that camps
• 1 night only for cub camping...NO WAIT....never mind
• Endless pleas to sell popcorn
• Endless pleas to sell camp cards
• Come to camp with your unit and we need you to also help run the camp you also paid to attend

We try to just run our unit, go camping, help youth (in our case boys) gain independence and confidence.  BSA keeps layering admin and other interference that takes our eye off that goal and sucks up time.

I feel your frustration. As a volunteer leader I feel like I have to shield my unit's parents from this negative part. Let's just focus on building the best program for our youth. The rest will work itself out. Kids will want to join if you are out having adventures, having fun! FWIW, new registration process was very unpopular at our latest Roundtable too.  

[Ojoman 157]

14 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

But sometimes they are ignored, told they do not know what they are talking about, yelled at, or cursed out at (yes that has happened).

I suppose that sometimes stress can cause tempers to flare but it doesn't matter if it is a professional or a volunteer doing the screaming/cursing, there is really no place in the program for that type of behavior. An out of character outburst might be excused once but if that behavior is the norm it needs to be called out and corrected. You are correct that volunteers being subjected to that will leave and understandably so. 

 

[RememberSchiff 3683]

22 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Agree. But sometimes they are ignored, told they do not know what they are talking about...

Yeah been there. 

 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

52 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

And she said, 'No, it's because you thank us'. I think all of my volunteers knew that I both needed and treasured them. I learned the value of THANKS my first year in great part due to an outstanding council exec. But that is a longer story... 

 

(sarcasm on) What's a 'Thank You?" (sarcasm off) I have not heard  that sentence from a pro in ages.

46 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

I suppose that sometimes stress can cause tempers to flare but it doesn't matter if it is a professional or a volunteer doing the screaming/cursing, there is really no place in the program for that type of behavior. An out of character outburst might be excused once but if that behavior is the norm it needs to be called out and corrected. You are correct that volunteers being subjected to that will leave and understandably so. 

 

I too am a former pro, and I was taught you ALWAYS (major emphasis) take care of your volunteers, for without them you will not meet your goals. Sadly the pros in my neck of the woods do not understand that, and have not understood that for quite some time. At least 10 years, if not longer, the pros have been like this as a norm. Best case scenario was a DE planning an event 3-4 weeks prior to the event, asking folks to help, when those who could help were either going to, or coming from  summer camp that same weekend. The DE sent out an email insulting the volunteers and blaming them for having to cancel the event. Worse is when the SE yells at your district chair. stating he had an incestuous relationship with their mother and to do anatomically impossible acts on themselves, all because of a disagreement over either an activity, volunteer to run an activity, or both. Worse part was the chair was a well respected, influential business leader in the community. Word of mouth spread about the incident, and FOS suffered. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Eagle94-A1