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Mich08212

Denied a court of honor.

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That you SSF. I appreciate you. 

Yes, its a pretty horrifying thing. to think he put all his heart and soul into this for such a long time. He feels disrespected, insulted, humiliated, shunned. And Im his mother. Watching him hurt like this really sends me reeling. As a mom, I dont care how old my son is, I will always have his back and I would do the same for anyone else.

No Im not going to consult an attorney.

I will do what I can. I was directed  y a nice council member today to write the SM a letter telling him of my plans for a ECOH and I'll need to invite the troop and get those letters out etc etc. I will seek the SM guidance and hopefully he will oblige.  I dont see why he wont.  Hes a nice guy. 

We want a formal ceremony like every other eagle from this troop has gotten.  People speaking on behalf of my son and the charity getting their check for overage of money my son raised for them after the project was completed. The charity raved about my boy. THEY even deserve to have that moment too.

Many people deserve to see my son be honored that way and many deserve to be honored as well.  I have people bewildered about this and are just as disgusted including my sons father. Its the whole package really. i Just have to figure out how to pull it off the same way the troop would. I do have a place in mind to hold it.  a nice hall above the Fire Dept where my deceased dad (2nd lieutenant) had served for so long. 

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9 minutes ago, shortridge said:

If you need advice on how to write a letter, you can find that any number of places online. There is no official Scout letter template. Is it a ceremony? A party? It can be either, whatever the Scout wants.

I apologized in advance if my questions seemed aggressive. I’m pretty close to walking that back. What you describe sounds like a toxic troop situation, but your language and approach are not helping things. Consider the way you have presented things here; if someone brought these complaints to you in this manner, claiming discrimination and insulting various people you volunteer with, would you be sympathetic?

You have been given plenty of guidance in this thread. If you don’t like what you have been told, that’s on you. Plan the CoH, run it, and move on. I fail to see the purpose behind the huge amount of emotional energy that you are expending on this, especially since neither you nor your son are continuing in Scouting.

Its not how to write the letter, its more about what is written and what to ask for..lol

It will be a ceremony like the troop has for the others.

No you dont seem aggressive.  :)

I know the way things have been presented but in my defense, things had just happened when I posted. SM saying My son was "denied" a COH. If you were here witnessing the heart wrenching look and feelings my son was feeling, Im sure you or any other mom would have presented it.

Yes, it is a toxic troop situation.

And yes, I still think this is some type of discrimination. Why? because of my sons physical disability with most things. and there was a time of financial hardship. My son had to wear hand me downs for awhile.  He was belittled by this man I speak of. Time will take its course with that and this is just the cherry on the cake.

Actually, I would be sympathetic. because you just dont know whats going on behind typed words on a screen.  Its often hard to express such words in text. One cant hear emotion in them. If this was a voice broad cast, it would certainly be a different tone. Although, there is no tone in a written word.  Just what people put to it.

Sometimes the written word is so much different then the spoken word.

I was and my son and my family and those that helped and assisted are insulted.  Sorry but not sorry. This man has caused more distress in the last few years then you can imagine. An insult is nothing here. and FYI, I havent volunteered with these people. lol  Thank Goodness!  LOL

I volunteered as a Cub scout leader for 7 years with a totally different crowd until my son crossed over into boy scouts and this troop. I backed away at that point.  The ones I did volunteered with... well, they were a great bunch but oh my word, they couldnt really do much so I stepped up and did most everything besides becoming the pack leader,,,llol  Id do it again though. I miss it.  :) Miss everything about it.

I appreciate the guidance. I love everything Ive been told.

I will plan it and move on.

My son plans on continuing in scouting and so do I ... actually.

I think the BSA is THE BEST organization for all boys! and I always will. One bad apple wont spoil the whole bunch... whooops... I dated myself..lol

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Thank you.

But if you have witnessed the bullying from this man and the direct insults from him as well, you'll probably say the same. and BTW, I called him that one time in the thread and it was to your response.Im not sure what holes youre talking about. Unless you want a storybook and if so I'll be glad to give it to you.

It starts from when my son started in the troop by this uh um... man... bullying him.   Hes had it out for my son since day one.   Why? Who the heck knows. We never knew him before. Looks like the proverbial "dog has his day" kinda thing.   Really very disgusting how a bully can just get away with this sorta thing. Thats what he is... a bully.

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@Mich08212, I haven't read all the pages of this thread so please excuse me if I'm missing something. But a fair number of people have brought up the possibility that your son did not really have a BOR because it was past the 90 day limit past his 18th birthday and you haven't responded. I suspect you don't understand the process. If he really did have a BOR he should have gone through the following process. Filled out an eagle application that was signed by his SM at his eagle SM conference. From there it should have been given to the council registrar who would have checked that it is was all valid. From there it would have been given to his district eagle chair who would have been the same person that signed off on his eagle project. Anyway, that person would have been at his EBOR. At the end of his BOR he would have been given his application back with all the signatures of everyone on the BOR. The application would then go back to the registrar who would then send it to national. A few weeks later your son or the SM would receive a certificate and an eagle card (looks like a credit card). That is proof that your son is an eagle. A patch and a medal is not proof.

Did any of this happen? I hate to say the issue is not about having an eagle COH, it's whether your son really had an eagle BOR. It might help if you can clarify some of these issues.

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Hi @Mich08212,

I'm a Troop Committee Chair and have been for a while.

Why not just go to the next committee meeting and ask what's up?  They are all generally public meetings.  If someone came to ours and had a question like this, we'd take the time to answer.  

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Ok thats cool. How was that letter worded? Can you share that with me?

This is what I know...

When my son crossed over into Boy scouts, he had been bullied by this man. a leader and committee chair and council member... Why? Who knows.  We never met this guy before. Apparently he had it out for certain boys. Who knows why?  clueless.   But my son  was respectful and everyone loved him. The Smaller boys in the troop especially loved my son and looked up to him.  

Finally me and a few other mothers came to the conclusion that he mustve been bullied himself or was the bully in his younger years and as long as our sons knew that they were better than that, we kinda just ... well I cant say we ignored it but we never confronted him about it. I mean this guy is down right nasty.

Finally, several of those boys quit because of this man. My son stayed. Said that he came this far and hes not a quitter. Proud of my son for sticking it out.

Well one day came along... something we both tried never to do but... during the time when my son was still working on eagle, it was a frustrating time for my son because the guidance he was promised through this was not given... Then... drum roll,  it came time for my son to have to ask this man of all people, how this process could be sped up. It was a simple question.  It came in the form of "we" meaning all of us. How could we speed up the process.

He didnt get an answer, 

Then I emailed just one simple question. The same question.  A simple answer wouldve sufficed. yes or no.

Nope!  Holy cow!!  This guy came back yelling and freaking out about how hard he works in the troop blah blah blah.   We were taken by this. Like, What?  really? All we did was ask a simple question and this bully guy flew clear off the handle!

the SM said, "You know, he makes the decisions for Eagle and COH"

I said, so?  We asked a simple question and he just starts yelling and screaming flipping out like he was going to cry.

Seriously! 

Im still to this day flabbergasted about it. Although I have forgotten about it.

So, with that said... I didnt think In had to tell everything like that because really, bullying would have sufficed..lol

In anycase, I am positive that this bully guy decided against the ECOH.  Which is crazy because he did push my son through.  Can we say"manic depressive" maybe?  lol

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, MattR said:

@Mich08212, I haven't read all the pages of this thread so please excuse me if I'm missing something. But a fair number of people have brought up the possibility that your son did not really have a BOR because it was past the 90 day limit past his 18th birthday and you haven't responded. I suspect you don't understand the process. If he really did have a BOR he should have gone through the following process. Filled out an eagle application that was signed by his SM at his eagle SM conference. From there it should have been given to the council registrar who would have checked that it is was all valid. From there it would have been given to his district eagle chair who would have been the same person that signed off on his eagle project. Anyway, that person would have been at his EBOR. At the end of his BOR he would have been given his application back with all the signatures of everyone on the BOR. The application would then go back to the registrar who would then send it to national. A few weeks later your son or the SM would receive a certificate and an eagle card (looks like a credit card). That is proof that your son is an eagle. A patch and a medal is not proof.

Did any of this happen? I hate to say the issue is not about having an eagle COH, it's whether your son really had an eagle BOR. It might help if you can clarify some of these issues.

Yup Hey MattR.

I did.. I responded to it.

Yes my Son had the BOR.

He gave in the paperwork right on his 18th birthday.

The Troop took forever in doing the BOR.

check, check, and check.. yes all was done and submitted to council. yes it was sent to national.

Just a week ago the SM gave him the card and certificate in a plastic shopping bag.

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5 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Hi @Mich08212,

I'm a Troop Committee Chair and have been for a while.

Why not just go to the next committee meeting and ask what's up?  They are all generally public meetings.  If someone came to ours and had a question like this, we'd take the time to answer.  

Yup, Im in process of doing that actually. Spoke with a great guy named Jeff Stern. Hes a District Chairman. Have spoken with Robert Rabbitt. Hes a Senior District Executive.

Been looking at the site for the next meeting but I dont see anything until aug 16th a roundtable BBQ. The site is: https://www.sccbsa.org/bt

I would love to go and ask that very question.

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5 hours ago, perdidochas said:

The thing is the EBOR, unless requested an exception from National, has to be done within 30 days of the Eagle's 18th birthday.  

I suppose it was.

My son handed in the paperwork all signed as the troop is very good and meticulous about this part... and handed in the day of his 18th birthday.

The EBOR was in October. My sons 18th birthday is June 9th 2017.

and just recently was given the card and certificate in a plastic shopping bag like the ones you use for garbage.

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7 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

My question to that is how?

When the chief of police speaks and legislation comes to speak and recognition from higher ups the the POTUS...

These are all the things that happen at a ECOH.  As well as the recipient of the Eagle project is there to collect any money left over from the project. People are thanked.  How would I put together something like that when I have no idea how to contact the POTUS etc etc.  That is the job of the Troop leaders that have done it for every other boy who has reached eagle in this troop.

Look up those dignitaries online, and write to them via email or snail mail. 

When I earned my Eagle I wanted the people from my troop to come. I didn't care if dignitaries came or not. I had some teachers, my grandmother, my parents, and about 75 scouts, troop families and leaders there. 

I wrote my own script by googling popular Eagle Court of Honor scripts. My parents bought a cake and light refreshments. We used the sponsor of our troops church's fellowship hall for free on a Sunday afternoon. 

It doesn't matter why the troop isn't doing what they usually do. That's a them problem. Your family can plan an Eagle court of honor just the way you want it. Invite all the folks your son wants, and have a great time. I'm happy to share my troops traditional recycled script if you want.(No it's not the one I wrote.) Use the forum's personal message system and send me your email. 

 

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On 7/18/2018 at 1:12 PM, Jameson76 said:

There is more going on here that we may know

These are some of key notes from the poster:

  • It had been 9 months since becoming eagle.  When he didn’t know what was going on he contacted his SM and when he did his SM wanted to meet with him. 
  • At that meeting he was told that he was denied a court of honor and would not give the reasons why.  
  • This may be some form of discrimination and if so there is going to be hell to pay.
  • He was just notified last night that they are denying the COH for reasons they will not say.
  • With that said, they talked at the library last night.  Basically no reason was given for the Denial of the COH. The SM said he did pull for him as well as a top official. He gave him his medal and pins and certificate (in a plastic bag) and that was it.

As has been advised, the COH for Eagle is typically the family.  Not required, though there should be one if the Scout is desires the ceremony.  In our unit we offer advice, have a box of decorations that can be used, etc. and support as needed.  Favorite was one at the Scout's house, then we all watched college football after the ceremony.

Interesting that the poster went quickly to discrimination, mentioned this multiple times, but offered no firm details (even vague ones).  Not sure why one would jump to that conclusion so quickly.  Must be some back story here not being disclosed.  Also the implied issue with some member on the committee/troop on the timeline.  Maybe some history there also.

Sound like the Scout is an Eagle. (That can be confirmed with local council / NESA if it has been 9 months)  Possibly move forward with that accomplishment in his life and put the COH issue astern.

 

Heres the whole story That I replied to another poster....

Heres the back story you desire.

This is what I know...

When my son crossed over into Boy scouts, he had been bullied by this man. a leader and committee chair and council member... Why? Who knows.  We never met this guy before. Apparently he had it out for certain boys. Who knows why?  clueless.   But my son  was respectful and everyone loved him. The Smaller boys in the troop especially loved my son and looked up to him.  

Finally me and a few other mothers came to the conclusion that he mustve been bullied himself or was the bully in his younger years and as long as our sons knew that they were better than that, we kinda just ... well I cant say we ignored it but we never confronted him about it. I mean this guy is down right nasty.

Finally, several of those boys quit because of this man. My son stayed. Said that he came this far and hes not a quitter. Proud of my son for sticking it out.

Well one day came along... something we both tried never to do but... during the time when my son was still working on eagle, it was a frustrating time for my son because the guidance he was promised through this was not given... Then... drum roll,  it came time for my son to have to ask this man of all people, how this process could be sped up. It was a simple question.  It came in the form of "we" meaning all of us. How could we speed up the process.

He didnt get an answer, 

Then I emailed just one simple question. The same question.  A simple answer wouldve sufficed. yes or no.

Nope!  Holy cow!!  This guy came back yelling and freaking out about how hard he works in the troop blah blah blah.   We were taken by this. Like, What?  really? All we did was ask a simple question and this bully guy flew clear off the handle!

the SM said, "You know, he makes the decisions for Eagle and COH"

I said, so?  We asked a simple question and he just starts yelling and screaming flipping out like he was going to cry.

Seriously! 

Im still to this day flabbergasted about it. Although I have forgotten about it.

So, with that said... I didnt think In had to tell everything like that because really, bullying would have sufficed..lol

In anycase, I am positive that this bully guy decided against the ECOH.  Which is crazy because he did push my son through.  Can we say"manic depressive" maybe?  lol

 

Now for the COH being of the family. 

This troop has always hosted a ECOH for every single Eagle and there has been many.  Basically it is the familys discretion to have food or whatever and its always held at the chartering organization: the elks club and of course who they are going to invite.

The troop plans it and gets the letters out to POTUS, governor etc etc. They plan the date etc.

For instance, my sons friends mom who got eagle, the troop planned for DEcember but The mom said no and that it had to be before college.  So I know the troop here does most of the planning and invites for most everything.

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15 minutes ago, Mich08212 said:

Yup, Im in process of doing that actually. Spoke with a great guy named Jeff Stern. Hes a District Chairman. Have spoken with Robert Rabbitt. Hes a Senior District Executive.

Been looking at the site for the next meeting but I dont see anything until aug 16th a roundtable BBQ. The site is: https://www.sccbsa.org/bt

I would love to go and ask that very question.

Good.  However, from what you just described sounds like district level meetings.  A roundtable is a training meeting for district leaders.  They fellows you mention are district level people.  A district is the city/county level organizational grouping within Scouting.  There's usually about 50 troops and packs in a single district.  

You need to find the Troop Committee meeting.  This is the leadership meeting for just your troop.  It's different.  Feel free to PM me your troop number and I'll see if I can find it for you.

It seems counter-intuitive, but individual troops do not report to the district level people.  The way the BSA is setup, a single troop is an autonomous entity.  District staff are usually quite well connected in Scouting, but they don't hold much too sway over a given troop.  

 

 

Edited by ParkMan
clarified a vague pronoun

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8 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

Look up those dignitaries online, and write to them via email or snail mail. 

When I earned my Eagle I wanted the people from my troop to come. I didn't care if dignitaries came or not. I had some teachers, my grandmother, my parents, and about 75 scouts, troop families and leaders there. 

I wrote my own script by googling popular Eagle Court of Honor scripts. My parents bought a cake and light refreshments. We used the sponsor of our troops church's fellowship hall for free on a Sunday afternoon. 

It doesn't matter why the troop isn't doing what they usually do. That's a them problem. Your family can plan an Eagle court of honor just the way you want it. Invite all the folks your son wants, and have a great time. I'm happy to share my troops traditional recycled script if you want.(No it's not the one I wrote.) Use the forum's personal message system and send me your email. 

 

Yup, I found all of that info on the BSA site so Im good there. I just dont know how to put in that letter that goes out to the POTUS and such. What to say? theres got to be an example somewhere.

I know where we can do it for free so Im good there too.

Youre right. it is their problem. I only pray they find whatever it is they are looking for.

The traditional script would be great. Thank you. My email is:   TheHomeCareerNetwork@gmail.com

I dont know how to use the personal message system.

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1 minute ago, ParkMan said:

Good.  However, from what you just described sounds like district level meetings.  A roundtable is a training meeting for district leaders.  They fellows you mention are district level people.  A district is the city/county level organizational grouping within Scouting.  There's usually about 50 troops and packs in a single district.  

You need to find the Troop Committee meeting.  This is the leadership meeting for just your troop.  It's different.  Feel free to PM me your troop number and I'll see if I can find it for you.

It seems counter-intuitive, but individual troops do not report to the district level people.  The way the BSA is setup, a single troop is an autonomous entity.  District staff are usually quite well connected in Scouting, but they don't hold much too sway over a given troop.  

 

 

oh my gosh, I have no idea how I would find out that info.  The troop number is 354.

Thank you so much!

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12 minutes ago, Mich08212 said:

oh my gosh, I have no idea how I would find out that info.  The troop number is 354.

Thank you so much!

I looked around your troop website and cannot seem to find a time for the meeting.  Often they list this on the troop website, but they didn't here.

Sorry.

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