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Jameson76

Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

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9 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Assuming that is the case, I would question the comment that the pack wouldn't have to pretend.  The pack would be making a direct promise not to do something, and then do it anyway.

Sadly our good friends at BSA National seem to take the path that this is what the policy is today, but if units choose to do something else, it is what it is.  Then when updating policies and using the path of least resistance, they figure it is less hassle to embrace the ones outside the lines than wrangle them back into compliance, so what the heck, let's make up new rules

Image result for we don't need no stinking rules

 

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Over/under on when the first lawsuit against BSA concerning the mixing of girls and boys on an overnighter?

You just know some Pack somewhere is going to have a coed Den and not properly separate the kids.

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6 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Over/under on when the first lawsuit against BSA concerning the mixing of girls and boys on an overnighter?

You just know some Pack somewhere is going to have a coed Den and not properly separate the kids.

I'm gonna go with soon

Image result for soon very soon

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The separate sleeping arrangements was an area of widespread agreement  ... but I expect some Packs to screw that up.

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1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

The separate sleeping arrangements was an area of widespread agreement  ... but I expect some  most Packs to screw that up.

I fixed it for you....

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To be fair, the complexity is jumping up on YPT and overnight requirements.  I think a BSA sponsored YPT playbook armband should be coming out soon.

Image result for quarterback arm play holder

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1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

To be fair, the complexity is jumping up on YPT and overnight requirements.  I think a BSA sponsored YPT playbook armband should be coming out soon.

 

Usually this would have been something you think about before changes are made. Get folks trained. Promote the rules so there's no grey area. 

This potential problem could have been avoided.

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3 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Usually this would have been something you think about before changes are made. Get folks trained. Promote the rules so there's no grey area. 

This potential problem could have been avoided.

Image result for prior planning prevents poor performance

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I always liked Churchill’s quote “Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential.”

 OR Tyson...”Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth.”

 

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Ike had a similar thought

Image result

And not sure who advised

“No business plan survives first contact with customers.”

 

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1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think a BSA sponsored YPT playbook armband should be coming out soon.

Oh, I thought that was a blood pressure cuff for people who like to read constantly.

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And this is the trend you will see in the future.  That is why the girls will take over leadership with their focused attention to detail and the boys will let them because it's easier to follow and enjoy the fun of no responsibility.  This will extend well into the high school years.  Unless it is segregated, such as sport activities, the girls seem to do better at running the other school clubs and activities.  I'm sure with the recent media focus, this will occur in Boy Scouts as well.  In 4-H the gals excel in the domestic areas, but hold their own  just as well raising a championship pig.

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I think leadership of coed Packs and BSA4G Troop who will run like coed will have to watch for this and it may be a good reason to ensure there remains some segregation within a coed program.  I don’t see much concern at Cub scouts as it is parent run and there are really no leadership roles.  At Boy Scout level, for those Troops that combine (they’ll exist) I certainly hope they keep the Patrols separate to allow both boy and girl PLs and even keep separate SPLs.   

While girls dominating may contine into high school, I’m actually not seeing women leaders take over my workplace (in the USA).   I still see male leaders dominate the ranks after you get beyond the first level.  This is such a concern in our corporation that I’m being pulled into new training titled Men Advocating for Real Change.  Essentially watching for bias within the organization that could be preventing a diversified leadership.  I could see BSA as a great method to help build both male (and female) leaders of the future.

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24 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think leadership of coed Packs and BSA4G Troop who will run like coed will have to watch for this and it may be a good reason to ensure there remains some segregation within a coed program.  I don’t see much concern at Cub scouts as it is parent run and there are really no leadership roles.  At Boy Scout level, for those Troops that combine (they’ll exist) I certainly hope they keep the Patrols separate to allow both boy and girl PLs and even keep separate SPLs.   

While girls dominating may contine into high school, I’m actually not seeing women leaders take over my workplace (in the USA).   I still see male leaders dominate the ranks after you get beyond the first level.  This is such a concern in our corporation that I’m being pulled into new training titled Men Advocating for Real Change.  Essentially watching for bias within the organization that could be preventing a diversified leadership.  I could see BSA as a great method to help build both male (and female) leaders of the future.

Cub Scouts is a DIRECT feed into Boy Scouts.  We have enough problems with Helicopter moms and dads not letting boy led  BE boy led after cross over... not establishing segregation at the Cub level now and laying down clear groundwork that will carry upwards, is only going to muddy the waters at cross over and make things a mess.  The concern should be even higher at the Cub level specifically because of this reason.   We can't keep thinking of these things in their separate bubbles, there needs to be a big picture view of how things are interconnected and play themselves out over the long haul. 

I'm also very suspect of the Troops that are not obedient that flout the policy, they won't keep patrols separate because they're either agenda driven, or they really only care about making things easy for themselves.  And if the boys decide they don't want co-ed patrols, I'm sure that would be overruled as well.  Would love to be proven wrong, but I don't see that happening. 

As for the workplace, personally speaking, women dominate leadership positions in my workplace (also in the USA), but again, as with anything in this world, it largely has to do with the uniqueness of male and female interest.   Both in being interested in being a leader at all at that level, and having interest in being a leader in a field that interests you.  
 

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Some messages on the Talk About Scouting Facebook page have mentioned that the "separate but equal" girls program with their own units is now under consideration. Troops may go coed with segregated patrols. And that is being stated by some national level volunteers.

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