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T2Eagle

To Report or Not Report YPT Violation

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8 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Keep it in mind one will lose this scouter and he will never be able to work with kids for the rest of his life.  I surely hope he's not a school teacher.  It will cost him his ability to earn a living.

Not necessarily. A YPT violation is not a charge of abuse. It does not, in itself, constitute an actionable offense. Scouters have been retained after events like this.

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2 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Not necessarily. A YPT violation is not a charge of abuse. It does not, in itself, constitute an actionable offense. Scouters have been retained after events like this.

If anything, his reputation would be ruined.

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4 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

If anything, his reputation would be ruined.

Will it? Among who, the leaders and parents in the unit who will all likely know what happened and that it wasn't a big deal?

What about the reputation of the unit itself if a YPT violation is not reported? I wouldn't want to be the pack/troop that is known for being lax on YPT policy. 

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Let's deal with the facts as we have them and avoid hypotheticals. 

In this particular case, there were three separate rooms available. One for the adults and two for the scouts. The adults collectively agreed that they would stay in one room and the scouts would be divided in the two others. The scouter in question - regardless of his motive or intention - chose to remove himself from the adults room to go and sleep in one of the other room with the scouts at a very late hour and without informing any of the other adults that he was planning to do this. That's troubling to me.

Whether wilful or not, this is a violation of YP. 

Ignorance of the law (or YP rules in this case) is, and has never been an excuse for violation of the law/rules.

He violated YP rules and that needs to be reported to both the council and to the CO so that they can evaluate and make a determination as to what action may be necessary.

For all we know, this may not be the first time that this scouter has done this, so it very much needs to be documented with the council and the CO.  

This scouter chose to go into the scouts sleeping area when it had been clearly and rightfully established that the adults would sleep in their own separate room. The snoring excuse hold absolutely zero credibility or validity. 

Also,why did he not alert one or more of the other adults to the fact that he would be going into the other room? The fact that adults were sleeping and he may not have wanted to wake anyone up so as not to disturb them also holds no credibility. If he was having trouble for whatever reason that night he should have spoken to the other adults.

Edited by SSF
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1 hour ago, ItsBrian said:

If anything, his reputation would be ruined.

He will certainly have a reputation as a scoff-law.

I have a reputation of letting youth hike on their own for hours and camp a ball-field's throw from me in wilderness recreation areas.

Those things don't sit well with parents of younger scouts. It might mean that certain leaders won't be first on the list for certain activities. But, if those are honest appraisals, CCs, SMs, and parents may work with them going forward.

Wanna know what's very hard to work with? Claims that @T2Eagle would sweep violations under the rug! Impossible to work with? Some scout needing to deflect his own mischief on to that scouter, and nothing on record from the scouter himself of what actually transpired. Tragic? Real abuse in a troop that had ignored warning signs.

Edited by qwazse
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Was this a violation of the Two Deep Leadership policy? No - There were three adults on this outing.

Was this a violation of the No One-On-One policy? No - There were multiple scouts in the room.

Was this a violation of the Youth Privacy policy? Maybe - Older versions of the YP policy mention placing blankets or some sort of divider between adults and youth when using the same room.  I don't see that in the current version.  All I see now is mention of a clothes changing area.  I would think that the scouts sleeping in the main area would need a designated changing area somewhere other than the main room since the main room would be used by all people.

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3 minutes ago, NealOnWheels said:

Was this a violation of the Two Deep Leadership policy? No - There were three adults on this outing.

Was this a violation of the No One-On-One policy? No - There were multiple scouts in the room.

Was this a violation of the Youth Privacy policy? Maybe - Older versions of the YP policy mention placing blankets or some sort of divider between adults and youth when using the same room.  I don't see that in the current version.  All I see now is mention of a clothes changing area.  I would think that the scouts sleeping in the main area would need a designated changing area somewhere other than the main room since the main room would be used by all people.

Well said. Exactly how I’ve been interpreting it.

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This can be found in the 2015 printing of the Guide to Safe Scouting but is no longer listed in the 2017 printing...

"Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youths of the same gender may occupy dormitory or singleroom accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youths. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be Youth Protection– trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or a sheet wall in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area."

 

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1 minute ago, NealOnWheels said:

This can be found in the 2015 printing of the Guide to Safe Scouting but is no longer listed in the 2017 printing...

"Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youths of the same gender may occupy dormitory or singleroom accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youths. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be Youth Protection– trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or a sheet wall in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area."

 

National probably realized it’s not always possible to hang a blanket or something like that.

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1 minute ago, ItsBrian said:

National probably realized it’s not always possible to hang a blanket or something like that.

What are you saying? This isn't a rule anymore? I haven't heard that...

 

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1 hour ago, EmberMike said:

What are you saying? This isn't a rule anymore? I haven't heard that...

 

I’m saying they might’ve realized that there may not be a hook or way to attach a blanket to divide the room up. 

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20 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

I’m saying they might’ve realized that there may not be a hook or way to attach a blanket to divide the room up. 

Sorry, I'm still not following... 

Are you saying that National doesn't expect us to abide by the divided room policy anymore? Just seems surprising if true, that they would just turn a blind eye to this and give up on the privacy rule in cabin situations. 

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2 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

Sorry, I'm still not following... 

Are you saying that National doesn't expect us to abide by the divided room policy anymore? Just seems surprising if true, that they would just turn a blind eye to this and give up on the privacy rule in cabin situations. 

Didn’t @NealOnWheels post it’s not in the 2017 Guide to Safe Scouting?

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@RichardB, can you shed any light on when and why the provision about "dormitory/single room accommodations" was removed from the YP regs/G2SS?  Or has it been moved somewhere else that none of us can find?

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