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Ireland seeks Eagle now before she ages out

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4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Originally, Venturing, except for Sea Scouts, did not have ranks as they do today. They had "Recognitions, " i.e. Bronze, Gold, and Silver Awards, and "Specialty Awards," i.e. Ranger, QUEST, and the Sea Scout Quartermaster Rank. IMHO because advancement has been turned into a  metric by national, and most Venturers could care less about awards and recognitions, folks at national implemented the current ranks. Don't know how popular they are still.

At a recent UofScouting event a rep from National said that fewer than 2% of all registered Venturing Scouts were engaged in earning Venturing awards/recognitions/ranks. I can't help but feel that such facts may be another reason BSA may abandon Venturing when girls are allowed in Boy Scouts.

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37 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

...That is much of the issue I have had with Miss Ireland, her statements clearly show she is concerned with the shinny object, not the foundational value...

 

I think that's kind of an unfair assessment of her motivations. She didn't join to get Eagle, she joined to tag along with her brother and take part in the adventures she saw him having, and she genuinely enjoyed the scouting expeirence.

She's been in scouting for over 12 years. Longer than some kids who start at Tiger and make it to Eagle. As long as I was in the BSA as a youth. The majority of that time, she has willingly gone unrecognized for her accomplishments and still participated in all of the activities that don't earn you a badge or a rank. I can't blame her if maybe after all of these years she is more focused on finally being recognized like all of the other boys she has grown up alongside, including those who went on to earn various honors and the Eagle rank, while she couldn't.

Is she motivated by the badge right now? Sure. And probably more-so since it is finally possible that she could actually get it. But I wouldn't assume that has been the case all along.

I believe she had to know that in all likelihood she would be long out of the BSA before girls would be allowed in. No one thought this would happen so soon, not even folks like me who really wanted this to happen. I figured girls in the BSA would be a 5-10 year thing, defintely not right on the heels of the other membership policy changes. 

I think she has always been concerned with the foundational value. From what I see, she conducts herself like a true scout. She's clearly brave, she's loyal to the organization, she is resourceful and ambitious, she embodies many of the qualities that we usually hope to see in an Eagle candidate. Being a scout has been good for her, and she is who she is because of Scouting. I don't hold it against her if now, all these years later and with the possibility of being able to earn Eagle becoming suddenly very real, she is motivated by the rank and "concerned with the shiny object." A lot of Eagle Scouts have gotten that far in their scouting lives and sometimes just want to finish it for the sake of finishing it or for getting that shiny object. 

As much as we like to talk about how this is all about the foundational aims, the leadership skills, the adventure, the fun, etc., sometimes it is about the medal, the badges, the belt loops, and the ranks. And that's not a bad thing. We can't put all of this stuff in the program and then ask kids to always just focus on the purest and most noble ideals of Scouting. It's just not realistic to expect that all the time when badges are such a big part of this. 

That medal means something to her. Even if it only represents the culmination of her youth scouting career, that is good enough if you ask me. But I suspect it means a lot more to her than that, more than what the snippets of media and the interview soundbites might suggest. You don't get this far and invest so much of yourself in this pursuit to improve the organization that has shaped who you have become, if it's not something you truly love. 

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10 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

 

The majority of that time, she has willingly gone unrecognized for her accomplishments and still participated in all of the activities that don't earn you a badge or a rank. 

No, that's not true. She has always been in rogue units which encouraged this nonsense by "unofficially" awarding her rank.

This has been documented repeatedly, but here is one citation:

 
“I really don’t feel different,” Sydney says. She’s been camping with the Boy Scouts since she was four years old, when her brother Bryan joined the Cub Scouts. Once she was old enough, she joined, too, unofficially. She even achieved the highest rank, the Arrow of Light, also unofficially. Sydney completed the requirements but was not granted the award, because she’s a girl.
Today, she still goes camping with Troop 414, where the other kids and their parents accept her as a member, even if the organization itself does not. In fact, Sydney will soon sit in front of a board of review and ask for approval to move up the second rank of Boy Scouts, to Tenderfoot. Of course, that’ll be unofficial, too.
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2 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

No, that's not true. She has always been in rogue units which encouraged this nonsense by "unofficially" awarding her rank.

 

I stand corrected, she has been awarded unofficial rank.

I thought I read somewhere that she doesn't actually get merit badges, but I'm not certain about that. 

The rest of my previous post I stand by. 

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In an opinion piece in the Washington Post, she also claims to have earned merit badges and been a PL.
 
 
"With the Cub Scouts, I went on camping trips, built my own wooden car for the pinewood derbies, learned about what firefighters do and even earned the highest award, the Arrow of Light. With the Boy Scouts, I have been able to learn and teach first aid, earn merit badges, earn lifeguard certification, complete the mile swim (twice) and even take on the role of patrol leader at camp. These opportunities were available to me because of the Boy Scouts, and although I am not yet officially recognized as a member, I would not have been able to learn or teach these life skills without the program."
 
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Also from the Outside magazine article, and you can make of this what you will, but to me, this is much of the problem:

"Like a lot of troops, 414’s scoutmaster is one of the moms. She submits Sydney’s applications for membership and rank advancement to the BSA every time, despite knowing that each will be rejected."

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25 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

No, that's not true. She has always been in rogue units which encouraged this nonsense by "unofficially" awarding her rank.

This has been documented repeatedly, but here is one citation:

 

You have to live the teaser line, "Meet the 16-year-old working to end discrimination in the nation's largest youth outdoors program". :dry:

How can discrimination exist in an organization meant for boys? That's like saying the NAACP discriminates because they advocate for "colored people" or that the Airline Pilots Association discriminates against non-pilots.

@an_old_DC, thanks for posting these facts. This is what many of us have been saying for a while now. I wish folks would just follow the rules. That's what Scouting is about.

 

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2 hours ago, EmberMike said:

I think that's kind of an unfair assessment of her motivations. She didn't join to get Eagle, she joined to tag along with her brother and take part in the adventures she saw him having, and she genuinely enjoyed the scouting expeirence......

I think she has always been concerned with the foundational value. From what I see, she conducts herself like a true scout. She's clearly brave, she's loyal to the organization, she is resourceful and ambitious, she embodies many of the qualities that we usually hope to see in an Eagle candidate.

Maybe I am wrong. But I am basing my assessment on what she has said in numerous interviews. Time and time again she has referenced wanting the Eagle Scout award as her motivation

Please read her and her fathers own words..

Quote

Sydney Ireland "They (BSA) think that having the Venturing program is enough, but Venturing does not have the Eagle rank, but they just think since the program is similar to the Boy Scouts that that is enough, they can say that they let in girls, but they really haven't let in girls at all, because they don't allow them into their main program, which is the Boys Scouts which does have the Ealge rank and other ranks that are recognized internationally."

 

Quote

 

Gary Ireland (her father): "The Eagle rank gets you into colleges and gets you, it is one of the few things you can put on your resume from high school that will help you get a job. There are companies that look for Eagle Scouts."....."We need the international community to put pressure on the Scouts."

"We hope that people around the world will send up videos as to why this is so important, and particularly since the United States is going to be hosting the International Jamboree in 2019. Are girls going to be allowed, girls from coed troops from around the world going to allowed to participate? Or are they just going to preclude and discriminate against our own girls in the United States?"

"It''s great that they have the Venturing program, but to come in as a marginalized member of a group, the Venture program is fantastic, but you have to also be able to earn the Eagle rank and get those rank advancements and be responsible for the advancement of other young Scouts."

 

Mind you, Mr. Ireland claims to be a Scout Leader (SM I believe), to teach other SM's and staff NYLT. Given that, some of his statements are puzzling.

As for showing Loyalty, I would look at those comments and ask Loyalty to whom or what?

Edited by HelpfulTracks
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From the webpage for the law office of Gary Ireland:

 

Boy Scouts of America: Assistant Scoutmaster Troop 414
Spearheaded successful national campaign to increase membership by including girls and young women in all levels of scouting in the U.S. Girls will be fully integrated into scouting beginning in 2018.  He also provided support for the integration of the LBGTQ community into Scouting through resolutions and personal advocacy.
Gary is active as Staff Member for Woodbadge Adult Leadership Training, providing training for national youth leaders.
 

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6 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

I hope his son or daughter know first aid.

I think he just broke his arm patting himself on the back.

It's on his professional website. You've never written a resume or filled in a LinkedIn profile I take it? 

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2 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

It's on his professional website. You've never written a resume or filled in a LinkedIn profile I take it? 

No, never.

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I've sent my letters in support of Sydney and I stand by my statments here and in those letters.

Based on this thread I can say that I'm infinitely more supportive of the Irelands than I am of some of the sentiments expressed here, and certainly the jabs at the family because of their financial status or various other personal or professional aspects of their lives, not to mention the ripping apart of Sydney's motivations to earn Eagle, something I doubt very many boys are ever subjected to.  

Occasionally this forum strikes me as one of the most un-scout-like environments a person could encounter. This thread is certainly a case study in that phenomenon. 

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