Who's to Say?

[BoyLedMyEye]

 

http://www.stlbsa.org/scouts/boy-scouts/Pages/Bronze-Hornaday-Award.aspx

 

From the above article on a Bronze Hornaday recipient:

Michael’s other notable Scouting achievements include Eagle Scout with 11 Eagle Palms, Varsity Scout Denali Medal, all four National Catholic Committee on Scouting (NCCS) Scout Religious Awards, all four God & Country Scout Awards, the BSA Triple Crown of high adventure (Philmont, Northern Tier and Florida Sea Base), the Congressional Gold Medal for Community Service, Brotherhood in the Order of the Arrow, and the National Youth Leadership Training (NYLT) veteran staff pin for five years of volunteer service.

 

 

There seems to be widespread negativity toward younger Eagles in general - not exclusively, but in general. When I read an article like the one above about a very high achieving Scout, it renews in my mind the question of who is really to be the judge of the worthiness of a Scout's achievements regarding the timeline they follow, as long as the requirements are achieved according to National's standards? It should be the Scout's decision alone. I would bet, and the math would indicate, he did not achieve all he has achieved in a Troop which emphasized "protecting" Eagle rank from the younger ones.

 

The Scout in the article may not be typical, but there is so much more they can actively pursue after Eagle while remaining in Scouting - if we'd only let them. Most will aim for Eagle first, before ever contemplating other highly involved and very time consuming projects or awards. It dismays me greatly to see them Eagle sometime during 17, then generally disappear, because Eagle has been portrayed as the end of the road in many cases.

 

By continuing to push for later and later Eagles, it almost seems they are being robbed of later and equally valuable opportunities for achievement, continued personal growth, and leadership display, while the BSA movement is robbed of retaining valuable, active and enthusiastic Scouters to lead it into the next generation. It would be better to have young men stay active, to bridge from younger Eagle to adult Scouter without interruption, rather than to Eagle and disappear, only to think about possibly returning years later should they eventually have a son of their own. It also doesn't seem to respect what is valued by the Scout - what does HE want his Scouting experience to be vs. what do the adults want to impose on him, and how will they do that?

 

The way it is now, it seems the message to most Scouts is "Eagle and done". Especially for the fast runners, I think a more functional message would be more along the lines of "If you're hungry, go for it, because there's so much more to Scouting after Eagle, if you want it!"

 

What do you think?

[King Ding Dong]

Hey, that's my District ! 15 years since the last Hornaday in GSLAC, what an accomplishment. I tend to agree with you, but how was Eagle required for any of his other accomplishments ? (Other than the palms).

[Gone]

Honeysuckle eradication? The Visigoth! Them's good eats.

[King Ding Dong]

It's a big problem around here. All the parks are asking for help.

[BoyLedMyEye]

but how was Eagle required for any of his other accomplishments ? (Other than the palms).

 

Congratulations to your Scout and Council, and a sincere thank you to the many adults who mentored him to such an accomplishment !

 

I see your point - Eagle is not required, other than Palm opportunities, but it does seem to lend itself to a natural progression - each of the last three ranks done in order, so most Scouts in my experience will naturally gravitate toward the goal of "finishing" the main journey to Eagle, then focus on other, additional awards, if they do so at all.

 

Especially since most Scouts never attain Eagle, it make me ask two things - one, why so highly discourage the ones who strive for it, just because they may be younger? And second, though they CAN have many irons in the fire at once, why encourage them to start many things with an even lower chance of follow-through on each, rather than letting them focus on fewer things, serially, with a higher chance of success for each, just because it might dictate attaining Eagle at a younger age? That's not reason enough in my book to limit opportunities for achievement, especially if you have a young go-getter, for whatever his reasons!

 

Eagle is not the last opportunity for personal growth and leadership development of younger Eagle, and it shouldn't be regarded as such or promoted that way, even subtly. It might, however, be easier for the adults to conclude their provision of support rather than helping a Scout through, for example, the five Hornaday projects required for the Silver medal, or the many requirements of the various levels of the Outdoor Award. This might be for very practical reasons, such as limited time due to adult job demands, lack of familiarity with Hornaday or other award requirements, lack of facilities or finances, or simply leader burnout. But trying to gate-keep a Scout from becoming an Eagle when HE decides to pursue it is simply not justified in my opinion.

[perdidochas]

http://www.stlbsa.org/scouts/boy-scouts/Pages/Bronze-Hornaday-Award.aspx

 

From the above article on a Bronze Hornaday recipient:

Michael’s other notable Scouting achievements include Eagle Scout with 11 Eagle Palms, Varsity Scout Denali Medal, all four National Catholic Committee on Scouting (NCCS) Scout Religious Awards, all four God & Country Scout Awards, the BSA Triple Crown of high adventure (Philmont, Northern Tier and Florida Sea Base), the Congressional Gold Medal for Community Service, Brotherhood in the Order of the Arrow, and the National Youth Leadership Training (NYLT) veteran staff pin for five years of volunteer service.

 

 

There seems to be widespread negativity toward younger Eagles in general - not exclusively, but in general. When I read an article like the one above about a very high achieving Scout, it renews in my mind the question of who is really to be the judge of the worthiness of a Scout's achievements regarding the timeline they follow, as long as the requirements are achieved according to National's standards? It should be the Scout's decision alone. I would bet, and the math would indicate, he did not achieve all he has achieved in a Troop which emphasized "protecting" Eagle rank from the younger ones.

 

The Scout in the article may not be typical, but there is so much more they can actively pursue after Eagle while remaining in Scouting - if we'd only let them. Most will aim for Eagle first, before ever contemplating other highly involved and very time consuming projects or awards. It dismays me greatly to see them Eagle sometime during 17, then generally disappear, because Eagle has been portrayed as the end of the road in many cases.

 

By continuing to push for later and later Eagles, it almost seems they are being robbed of later and equally valuable opportunities for achievement, continued personal growth, and leadership display, while the BSA movement is robbed of retaining valuable, active and enthusiastic Scouters to lead it into the next generation. It would be better to have young men stay active, to bridge from younger Eagle to adult Scouter without interruption, rather than to Eagle and disappear, only to think about possibly returning years later should they eventually have a son of their own. It also doesn't seem to respect what is valued by the Scout - what does HE want his Scouting experience to be vs. what do the adults want to impose on him, and how will they do that?

 

The way it is now, it seems the message to most Scouts is "Eagle and done". Especially for the fast runners, I think a more functional message would be more along the lines of "If you're hungry, go for it, because there's so much more to Scouting after Eagle, if you want it!"

 

What do you think?

 

My son is a 15 yr old Eagle. He's still champing at the bit to keep on Scouting.

 

[Tampa Turtle]

Sounds like an ambitious and organized lad. My only comment is how many early Eagles I see who drop out in under a year...partially this must be partially a focus on new "college resume enhancing" activities and also this focus as Eagle as the "ultimate" IMHO. I got dirty looks at a recent meeting when I said "I'll take a good Life Scout over a on-paper Eagle any day".

[perdidochas]

I'll take a good Eagle scout over a paper Eagle or good Life Scout :-)

[Gone]

I got dirty looks at a recent meeting when I said "I'll take a good Life Scout over a on-paper Eagle any day".

 

LOL...said the same thing at a recent TC meeting. The looks I got could have killed.

[Scouter99]

 

LOL...said the same thing at a recent TC meeting. The looks I got could have killed.

 

You can't talk about their sons that way!

[Basementdweller]

At our spring court of honor.

 

I was asked to speak about rank advancement by the SPL

 

I chose the most important rank in scouting.

 

First Class.

 

 

 

I see the troops job to help new scouts earn first class. First Class is the door way to many of the more sought after activitys.

 

Then it is up to the first class scout to decide if he wants to give back to the troop in a leadership role.

 

the Eagle like everything a giant bell curve ....there are some truly horrible law breaking eagles, there are a bunch of so so eagles and then few who are truly brilliant.

 

 

[Stosh]

FC is required, everything beyond that is nice.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

FC required ? Why ? My wife works a man who stayed very active in scouts until he aged out. Never made it past Tenderfoot. Loved it, loved camping, loved hanging with all his friends. He just didn't care about the badges. Seems to me to be a very honorable and hardworking adult. Was probably an excellent Scout. Like BD said, there are good one and bad ones and some that are good and bad. Yesterday I was tagging along on mixed age ad hoc patrol on a district urban treasure hunt event. SM son 14, just Eagled not has COH yet was at his best all weekend except for one very bad moment. He was relaxed, very friendly, chatted up a 5 year old on the bus, cooked with enthusiasm, lead, was funny, blew away the current SPL, best I have EVER seen him (first time SM Dad was not there). Except for one moment. Crossing a interstate overpass he leaned over the railing and spit on the traffic below, which my son immediately imitated. How do I judge this Scout, or should I ?

[qwazse]

... Crossing a interstate overpass he leaned over the railing and spit on the traffic below' date=' which my son immediately imitated. How do I judge this Scout ... [/quote'] Accuracy x distance.

[King Ding Dong]

Accuracy x distance.

Lol. Maybe viscosity as well.