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a group that only allows only Christians into it.


Technically, the AHG Creed only applies to adults, not to the girls. Any girl can join as long as she can promise to "love God". In this sense, the youth membership requirement is very similar to the BSA policy.

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Girl Scouts USA shares Scouting values. They also have a keen interest in making sure that girls are able to fully experience the world they live in safely and with equal oppurtunity. Oh, and they don't care about sexual orientation and figure your religious beliefs are your own business.

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Our SE will let anyone use our camps, if they have the cash. Then we volunteers have to go in and clean up after them and repair the damage.
They should have to put down a serious security deposit if so much damage is regularly occurring.
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Pack: I'll try to answer your question by asking some other questions first. Where would you propose the new line for membership be?


- Should we allow girls into the Boy Scout program? After all, why should we discrimiate on gender and prohibit them the same freedom granted to boys?

- Should we remove the minimum age from cub scouts? Why discriminate based on age? Allowing freedom of younger scouts to join to before they get involved in other programs.

- Should we open the program to devil worshipers? Alas, there may be units that do this already although I'd hope not. But would you constrain beliefs to those that worship a loving God or would you restrict the free exercise of choice by governing the spiritual deity someone chooses to follow?

- In fact, why even require a belief in God at all? Surely freedom to choose would include the freedom to not choose as well. Why should the BSA mandate a belief in God when freedom would allow you to believe whatever you wish?



Needless to say, my rhetorical questions are dripping with sarcasm. and while I actually don't like starting so aggressively, I am utterly tired of the assault on traditional conservative principles. This is not about freedom, discrimination or even sexual orientation. To paint the conversation in this light misses the point of the opposition. It is about the ability of an organization to set and maintain it's core values vs. having those values dictated by those that disagree. And yes... to me is is also about standards of right and wrong and how we define what is acceptable to our youth- including my son.


In Scouting for Boys, Baden-Powell wrote specifically about Christianity

>> We aim for the practice of Christianity in their everyday life and dealings, and not merely the profession of theology on Sundays


When asked where religion came into Scouting and Guiding, Baden-Powell replied,

>> It does not come in at all. It is already there. It is a fundamental factor underlying Scouting and Guiding.


I understand scouting is no longer a Christian organization (nor was it ever) and only requires boys to maintain a belief in a higher power (for the time being)... but you cannot escape that it was founded on Christian principles- of which homosexuality is a sin.


Lest you believe I am hypocritical, I acknowledge that I have in the past, I still do and will in the future sin myself. The difference is I don't habitually seek to make my sin a lifestyle nor force others to accept it as normal.



So to answer your question? I would absolutely afford anyone the same freedom I have. Either:


1) Accept the organization and the core values and beliefs


2) Start your own organization with core values and beliefs you can support.


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No response in another thread. I'll try it here:


I guess we can just pick a random thread on this topic now, they're so mixed up...or maybe it's me.


Anyway, I'm still trying to understand the reaction in which someone decides to leave scouting, not because their CO has lost its ability to discriminate, but because OTHERS have gained the freedom to choose NOT to discriminate. I just don't get it. Why does one person NOT want another to have the same freedom that THEY have?



I agree with you 100%. A few years back the show South Park,{ yes that irreverant non PC show, lol) did an episode on the BSA and Gays with the recurring character "Big Gay Al" as the scoutmaster of the towns troop who is forced to resign by the council leaders because of his sexuality. The guy they pick to replace him turns out to be a child abuser/molester. I think the show in a humorous way did an excellent job dealing with all the issues being discussed here, and what happens takes quite a twist. I suggest all scout leaders whether anti or pro gay in the BSA watch this episode if for no other reason to see both sides of the issue.

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"Should we open the program to devil worshipers?"


As far as I can tell, it's already open to them. There are a few Scientology units, at least (I'd much prefer satanists).


"In fact, why even require a belief in God at all"


I don't know why the BSA requires it; as it stands now, their religious requirement is completely hollow, since there aren't any theological requirements to go along with it.


As for the same freedoms you have, you can also use your free speech rights to:

3) Try to persuade the organization to change.


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