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ASM915

Inappropriate Adult Knots

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eolesen,

I guess we have different SM Handbooks. Mine has a section titled "Sexual Issues Among Scouts" on page 136.

 

"Scoutmasters who have established a relationship of trust with troop members and who are willing to listen carefully and compassionately to what boys are saying have the best chance of understanding the Scout's concerns - sexuality included - and the greatest success in providing them with guidance that will have real meaning."

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eoleson

 

I agree with Brent's statement 100%, almost all boys are very reluctant to discuss sexuality matters with their parents, teachers, and strangers. If you are a scoutmaster the BSA obligates you to at least listen to the boy and at least help get him to someone who can help. This issue is included in the SM handbook and other BSA publications for a reason, and if handled incorrectly or ignored by you could create some lasting damage in the development of that youth. If the boy comes to you it is because he feels confident that you are the one whose advice is wise and will help guide him. It is a sacred trust and you should treat it as such learn to listen and not prejudge.

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Gonzo1, I am not sure I can picture the belt buckle, but these guys did not seem to care about what other people were wearing.

 

Back to the decorator crabs: It seems to me that anyone who advocates a "local option" approach to scouting should also, by extension, advocate for "alternate" or "local option" uniforming policies.

And just as "local option" IS a practical reality, if we glance around at various troops in various councils, the "alternate" approach to uniforming policy also seems to be a practical reality, protests to the contrary not withstanding.

 

I am reminded of my old tax protester buddies who KNOW they are right about the dollar NOT being legal currency. I try to remind them that the system seems to have held together in the decades after we did away with the gold standard and perhaps this issue is NOT the path to universal ruin. I expect I would have as much success in these forums as I have had with them.

 

Like I wrote before, it would be fine to me if ALL these decorations went away. But to me this remains a small issue and my pragmatic side allows me to just shrug at the practical reality...and get on with scouting anyway.

 

Edited part: I was able to edit this by removing every last apostrophe. ICAWTK(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

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Pack, hey buddy, that sounds like a pretty tough neighborhood there you live in. Maybe you should look for some new friends.

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Some thought that WWI was going to be the last great war.

 

Some thought that prohibition was the end of alcohol in the USA.

 

Some thought that the Great Depression was the end of American Society.

 

Some thought the 60's and the riots were going to destroy our Democracy.

 

Some thought KISS would have all of us children worshipping the devil.

 

The BSA is the BSA.

 

The knot is not going to change the BSA.

 

Maybe the knot represents a change the BSA needs to make in how it addresses an issue.

 

Those knots, pink, purple, or blue do not threaten my core values or beliefs or challenge why I am a member with my 3 sons. ( No, I'm not Fred McMurray... )

 

It's a piece of fabric on a shirt.

 

A shirt worn to represent an organization.

 

If it's authorized, great.

 

If it's not then take it off and do what you have to do to get it authorized.

 

Either way...let's really lead our youth and show them the difference between right and wrong, how to right wrongs...and have the courage and stamina to engage in the process for change.

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In regards to "Inappropriate Adult Knots", I have seen a Wood Badge Knot, but never seen anyone wear them.

 

Has anyone seen that and what reactions have you seen on that. (I know that there is a "Sea Badge Knot" and have heard folks say that they thought there should be a "Wood Badge Knot". Personally, I don't share that, but am curious.

 

Peace.

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Maybe I have a twisted sense of humor?

A few years back I had a boss, a super nice fellow.

I'm not sure how or why? But we somehow got into playing what we thought were practical jokes on each other.

Like many practical jokes they seem a lot funnier at the time.

I used to tell people waiting to see him that he was very hard of hearing, but was very sensitive about it and too vain to wear a hearing aid.

I'd then double up with laughter as people would go in his office and spend the next half hour yelling at him.

One day I stuck a fair sized sign on his car that read "Honk For Gay Rights". He said he was wondering why some people were honking and some people at the red light were giving him strange looks.

It was only when he stopped at the local beer distributor that he found out about my handiwork.

He said he was ready to kill me!! Needless to say he isn't and never was gay.

My feelings on this Inappropriate Adult Knots thing is.

That there is a time and place for everything.

I'm OK with people wanting to show their support for what they believe in.

If someone wants to proclaim their support for something or some one, I'm fine and dandy with that.

I know a Scouter who has a bumper sticker with a picture of this knot on his car.

But I just don't see that wearing it on a BSA uniform is the right thing to do.

As for the knot being some sort of sign that informs youth members that the wearer is open minded and easy to talk with?

Come on get a life!! That really is a stretch!!

We are all free to agree or disagree with the BSA.

We can support who and what we like.

But we don't need to use a Scout uniform as a billboard.

Whats next a knot that shows which political party we support?

 

ScoutDadof5

The UK and I think Canada at one time did have a knot that had two WB beads on.

Back when I first became a Scout Leader in the UK,after you completed half the training and before you completed the WB course, there was a knot (Badge" that was to be worn on the UK uniform with one bead on it.

It became known as the "Peanut Badge".

Eamonn.

 

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I would Gladly Wear This Knot!

 

Actually I think the saying is to wear the Knot is to earn the knot. Kids need to know that there are people out there who will listen to them and who it can be safe to talk to. There are way too many people on the band wagon to 'kick em out!'

 

I truley wish we would follow the example that England gives us, ( remember the home of Lord Baden Powell) and not kick kids out for such things as being Gay or Athiests.

 

Youth are too young to fully understand God to be able to make the statement that they are Athiests and as far as being Gay, the question is about what is appropriate behavior?

 

Staticticly speaking, it is not the Gay youth or leader that causes a ,molestation or an abuse situation. This is fact. I am sure if you do not want gays in scouting you wont aggree with this. But think about it, it is our church leaders, our family men who are hurting our youth. that is a very broad generalization I know.

 

Being Gay does NOT mean being a pediphile! Two entirly different things! Inapropriate behavior is inapropriate behavior PERIOD.

 

Many Leaders I know feel this way....

Many leaders I know like it the way it is......

This has only become an issue within the BSA in the last oh 20 years..... before that everyone was mostly in the closet....

 

 

Kids are too young to understand these choices fully and while some boys may be gay there is a trend in our country to have rebellion to ones parents by stating im gay or bisexual to create a situation that the parents will not appreciate.

 

In addition to this our Teen Suicide rate is allarming one huge reason for this is that many teens who may be confused do not have anyone safe to speak with.

 

The knot itself is suposed to state to somone 'I am a safe person to speak with' it does not state that you aggree or disagree with the scouts choice, it mearly states I am a safe person to speak with.......

 

The really sad thing is that by wearing this knot that is a violation of BSA policy ( but hey wearing your Wood Badge Patrol Emblem your violating uniform policy), and by wearing the knot you may be opening your self up to being kicked out of the BSA just because you wore it.

The BSA is a Privet Organization and can kick people out ( and have ) without due cause ect...

 

It is my hope that one day

we can accept all who want to be a part of the BSA untill then I am involved, and Glad that my son can be involved.

But yes I truley hope that one day this will no longer be an issue.

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Who cares if someone puts this on their own uniform? What are the Boy Scout Police going to come and get them? The Scouts in the black knee socks come take them away? If this is all you have to worry about, then your program must be running awesome!

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I'm glad this thread came back to life. I wouldn't have seen it otherwise, and I enjoyed reading it, as well as looking up its history and meaning. Good comments from both sides of a heated discussion.

I've seen one of these knots. Seemed like a good guy, and he was open and sincere about it. Nevertheless, because of it, he won't be asked to serve on the staff of the course he was taking. We make sure our trainers are in proper uniform. That may or may not get a comment ... don't care. Just stating what happened here.

I've also seen the Wood Badge knots. Those people will also not be asked to serve. It's a demonstrated disrespect for proper uniforming, which is the exact opposite of what a Wood Badge staffer should doing.

I've obviously tipped my hand. I appreciate the "bravery" of those who wear, and therfore earn it, but I don't think it's appropriate.

BDPT00

 

 

 

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My instructor/facilitator at Philmont was wearing one of those World Crests/Wood Badge combos, so apparently the Uniform Police were on a donut break while we were there...

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A couple of years later and I've still never seen the knot. So I guess I'll have to try to get one and start wearing it. Here goes...

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