fred8033 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 "Call me sanctimonious but I would encourage you to take the time you spend judging fellow Scouters and put that time into serving your unit." Fair enough. Knots are definitely not a negative thing. Good and bad scouters come in all flavors ... with and without knots. It was a cheap shot. My apologies. (This message has been edited by fred8033) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 I too apologize. But I just found that funny. I'm one of those who should be wearing devices on my knots, 5 total on 3 knots. And I hate the things. I use to wear them once upon a time, but I've lost numerous ones, been stuck when backing came off, had problems getting to go through the shirt and the knot, and now the Sea Scout device is "restricted" and I have to order it through a council office (have no reason why it's restricted when the others are not).EDITED: So I was laughing at how much time I had wasted on those suckers. (end edit) But I when I was wearing those devices, I was wearing the shirt everyday working for supply. So I was very busy and active. Not sitting back, enjoying a cup of coffee, and asking scouts if they asked the PL. (This message has been edited by Eagle92) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woapalanne Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 "For example, to give the award the same recognition as the other top unit leader awards, the Cubmaster Award will become the Cubmasters Key and use the Scouters Key knot. The Cub Scouter and Pack Trainer Awards will use the Scouters Training Award knot." Which is exactly the way it was when I was a Cubmaster. Except that they were simply "Scouter's Key" and "Scouter's Training Award". (Cubmasters are Scouters, too.) You could add the device if you wished, but most didn't unless they earned it in multiple programs, then they used multiple devices. Many didn't add the devices even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I like this change. Especially after they added the last Cub Scout knot, it felt like there were just way too many of them. I still don't think the criteria are now correct for the Varsity and Venturing leader's knots, but we're getting closer. I do think I'll miss the colors, though. I like the orange and black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 for myself....not a problem. My shirt is plain, and has nothing adorning it, other than the gray shoulder tabs. Just don't see the need for the puffery.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 LV, if they dole out a knot for wilderness soloing with less than 5 lbs of gear for a week, I hope you wear it. I'd like to pick you out of a crowd and shake your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey H Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 It's a good change. There are currently too many knots to clutter the uniform. I have nothing against anyone wearing them if they earned them, but it can start looking a little silly. Our uniforming guide encourages an uncluttered look and the proposed award policy lines up with that philosophy. I concur with other posts as it appears that we are simply going back to the way it used to be. I have an old Cubmaster Packbook from the 70's that describes some the awards available to Cub Leaders at that time and it looks much like what they are proposing today. When I see old pictures of Scouters decades ago, I notice very few knots and a cleaner uniform look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 They also could simply make the knots half the width; then you could twice as many in half the space. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherhoodWWW Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I see this as yet another change for the sake of change. Knots are simply another tool that can encourage adults to do the things that might lead to the result of better program. The needs of units change from year to year. I would much rather have two different knots than one knot and devices. I've several shirts and moving devices seems cumbersome. All my uniform shirts might be worn while wearing a back pack of one sort or another, devices simply do not work with shoulder straps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Funny, cause of this forum I cut mine off and threw them in the memory box (most of them were cubbie awards). Funny thing was I was taken more seriously after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartHumphries Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I was a four-year letterman in Cross Country in high school, amongst other things that I lettered in. I hate, hate those metal devices, they keep falling off. You can try whatever you want to get them to stick on but eventually they're going to fall off. Even hot glue on the back of the little metal things doesn't work forever, maybe only a year or so. My Oscar de la Renta Scout pants finally wore out a couple months ago after 15 years because I've grown too big in the waist. A leg zipper on my Centennial pants just broke in an ordinary load of laundry after only 2 months of use. These little metal pins are just more of the cheap junk that National is coming out with now instead of the good uniforms that we used to have -- stuff whose planned obsolescence is measured in months instead of years, to drive more sales in their stores. On the other hand, if they ever come out with knots with the "devices" embroidered into the knot, I'd buy those.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Here's a completely different idea. (and I'm betting this has been suggested before...) Let scouters do the same thing scouts do. Move the recognition to a sash and to be used during COH or special ceremonies. I'd put my knots on it instead of just choosing the one or two of the most memorable ones. I'd put the Eagle pins I've been given on it. I'd put memorable temporary patches on the back. Heck, let adults put all their old positions on it too. Then you can have as many knots and special recognitions as you want. You could even add some. Maybe a small knot for each Univ of Scouting attended. A knot for each year you've attended four round tables. Just an idea to keep the uniform be functional and sharp and not tacky but let scouters have a chance to show off all their achievements. ... and not get stuck using devices (no pun intended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartHumphries Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ok, so now when are they going to combine a new "OA" knot with devices for Order, Brotherhood, Vigil, with the current OA Distinguished Service knot? That'll let people stop wearing a folded up sash tucked into their belt and National would make a heck of a lot of money selling those to every OA member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srisom Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Less color on the shirts. Seems that's the way National is headed on the uniforms. Don'e want to show that there is a uniform, too much like the military. Look for more changes. Perhaps to like the Girl Scouts and no uniform, so no one would have to worry about knots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Funny the less color seems to make it look more like Military field uniforms in IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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