Engineer61 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So, given the three choices, Swimming-Hiking-Cycling, my Scout has chosen Hiking ... out of necessity ... he is a barely competent swimmer and refuses to learn how to ride (why I still have a bike in the garage beats me!) So, he has to get in shape for five 10-mile hikes and a 20-mile hike. So, some opinions on how much and what kind of conditioning are needed. I figure he needs about twice the leg muscle that he currently has. Marching Band next summer and fall will certainly start the process....will help with the core muscles as well. Assuming he has to haul all his calories and H2O, I figure he has to be able to haul about 20# in his pack. Timing will be everything...you want to do these hikes in the winter in the desert southwest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 10 miles is pretty easy. 20 miles takes a lot more doing. 20 pounds for a single day is excessive. I hiked the AT for 4 days and nights with 22 pounds including food, fuel and shelter. So what is his current condition????? Fluffy couch potato????? Or youth league athlete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Am in same boat. Younger son (12) is starting up hiking and backpacking now. With the cooler weather down south it is a better time. He needs to build up his stamina and back strength. Older son (13) was born to hump a pack for 20 miles but the younger one is built like a reed and is a sprinter. I am no expert and am a year into it myself... I assume he has to carry water? That is a BIG weight. My sons have done some conditioning hikes for 5-7 miles on Beach sands with light loads (water mostly), stop for lunch, and go back. We also start carrying our backpacks for the daily dog walks as well, to the mortification of my wife. I have found the best way to train is with the packs. It changes your center of gravity and makes you realize that stabilizing your ankles is a good thing. Also, if he is going to combine backpacking with the hiking, you get religion about hauling unnecessary stuff real fast after the first several miles. It is a lot harder to walk while carrying stuff. Makes a regular hike with a light day-bag a joy afterward. As for myself I start doing a lot of little things. Park in the far lot and walk in. Take the bus more to work and get of a couple stops early. Walk the dog early. Work in more walking. The right shoes are critical as are the correct socks. I think the Scout Thorlo (sp?) socks are pretty good for the price. Teach him to examine his feat. Our boys carry Goldbond, Moleskins, etc even for short hikes. We do mandatory foot inspections as well. Some folks mix up some weight training with the walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Smaller bodies = lighter clothes, so your son has some advantages to start with. Hiking and marching band are good cross-training sports. If he works on hiking now, band will be easier. Routine drills that are good for "core stabilization": sit-ups, push-ups, deep knee bends, and balance exersizes. Basic stretching is always good. My problem was I didn't want to commit an hour, so if you can, help him choose a 10' - 20' set before he hits the shower. That way he can have something to do daily that won't try his patience. On weekends, 1-2 hour walks with friends is a good idea. Use this time to BREAK IN THE FOOTGEAR!!! This is the most important. These walks should give him an idea of how thirsty he can get and help him figure out his water needs. (Although being in the habit of carrying 4 quarts is always good, I usually carry only 2qts for a day hike.) Within three weeks, he'll know if he's up for extending his walk to ten miles. Where he walks for conditioning depends on the terrain he chooses for his hike. His conditioning hikes should match the terrain. This can be tough. My brother is a hiking guide in the rockies but winters in Ohio! He found a farm with a 100ft ravine that he can walks up and down repeatedly so he stays in shape. He showed me the place once. I busted his chops for wearing a rut in the hillside. If he plans well, each 10 mile hike will have slightly more varied terrain, so that the first couple prepare him for the last few. Needless to say, this can be a good parent-son activity if he'll put up with you or his mom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Have him experiment -walking stick or no walking stick. Opinions vary...I really need mine. 2nd on breaking in the footwear. He'll have a better idea on what he needs after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 My advice: give him your advice, but let HIM plan the hikes. The first one may be a disaster, but that's OK. Make sure he has a map, water, good boots, and a cell phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I remember the expression "you hike your own hike" or something like that. I agree give him some gentle advice, point him to any good guides or websites, and let him find out of his own. (I rarely intervene on my boys hiking except for water, 1st aid, etc) My younger son packed his pack and wore it on the walk last night. Already he is taking "essential" things he thought he needed out after only a one hour walk. Like a heavy dry box instead of lightweight dry bags. Adjusting the load, re-appraising his sneakers. He is taking it really seriously. I gave him some advice when he came up to me and asked instead of pontificating. Trevorum gave good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT224 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 We integrate the Hiking MB in our regular Troop activities so we do a number of 10 mile hikes through out the year, and then a 20 mile hike every other year. Doing the 10 mile hikes is the conditioning for the 20 mile hike. Not all participate, but after a couple years those that are interested have completed all the requirements and have earned the MB. We find it really helps to have plenty of Scouts on the hikes to keep each other company and spirits up. The conditioning comes from getting out there and doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 That is how we (are trying) to do it. More and more backpacking and less and less car camping. Meeting some resistance. Took me almost a year to get into shape for the longer ones; but a nice side benefit for scouters. A few "parlor" boys resist and do not see the need to walk anywhere. Kinda sad. I usually tell them on 9/11 thousands of New Yorkers walked 10 or 15 miles home after transport shut down; could they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay K Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The ten mile hikes are the conditioning for the 20 miler. 20 pounds is too much. The 150 yards for Swimming MB are only 50 yards more than is required for 1st class requirement 9b. IF the Scout doesn't ride bikes and doesn't swim, I think that the Scout needs to be nudged a little bit. Baden-Powell said "EVERY Scout a swimmer..." I'm not counseling against Hiking MB, just the avoidance mentality. I got all three (Hiking, Swimming, and Cycling,) when I was a Scout, in the middle of the last century in the previous Millenium... I can still cover 10 miles, on level terrain, in under 3 hours. My Scouts, who all have Swimming MB, are saying that they want to do Cycling MB. Most of them have Lifesaving, and we're talking about Emergency preparedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Let's see ... Condition : Total non-athlete. Does not participate in a single sport outside of P.E. class...not even at Scout functions. So finding conditioning methods is problematic. With 10-15% humidity, and 70-80 degree temps how much water should he carry for 10 mi? 20 mi? I agree with the Swimming and Cycling issues...but he's not going to get on a bicycle...to phobic about injury....as been from day one from when I met him...kinda ironic, since his Dad was a major outdoor kind of guy...long distance cyclist...never taught him to ride a bike. He's actually water phobic as well...won't go under water or jump into the pool. Had to show him the breast and back strokes and force him to learn it just to make him water safe...otherwise I'd have banned him from my pool long ago. As for advice for him...I have none... I never hiked... never had the need.(This message has been edited by Engineer61) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Just a thought, he is out of shape and I understand from what you post your physical conditioning could be improved, why don't you help him out by going with him on all condiitoning hikes and the 5 10's and 20? The worst that can happen is you both will improve physical condiitoning and you may even deepen your step-Dad relationship with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 How much does he weigh? Is the terrain easy? There are no places to fill up? Lets assume moderate terrain in nice weather. So he will do an average of 2 mph. So for a 10 mile hike that is 5 hours. Put in an hour for lunch, etc and say 6. I'd guess 60 to 80 oz of water. If it is strenuous or hot and wanta a safety margin 90 to 120oz. So 2-4 32oz Nalgene Bottles or 100oz Camelbak. If he carries 4 bottles including the weight of bottles he can be up to 10 pounds alone, just for water. Water is heavy. Add in a pack, some lunch, the "10 essentials" (compass, knife, etc)and you can get up to 16-20 pounds in a hurry. I would start with a lightweight daypack, a couple of Nalgenes, and 5 miles. If you can practice along a trail with stops every few miles that is great. When I walked in England it seemed there was a village every 2 miles or so. So you didn't need to carry so much. Water is a big limiter for us. We have unpolluted water sources left and the other Scouters are leary about filtering. So we may cache water along the way or do loop hikes or campsite to campsite hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I like OGE's idea. And at least for the short ones (the 10-milers) why not just hike in the rain? It will keep you cool and hydration won't be much of a problem. And there will be glorious solitude on the trail. Oops, you may not get much rain...where are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Everyone assumes this has to be a country hike. I have had some great urban hikes. Son and I hike out to a hooters for lunch for one of his hikes. Best of all city hiking requires nothing but tennis shoes and a few bucks in your pocket. Thirsty stop at the circle k for something to drink or eat. His 20 miler we walked the urban greenway out to an amish restaurant and back. Guys ditch the naglene bottles they are expensive and heavy at a pound a piece. My son and I recycle gatoraide bottles they are a couple of ounces. If your going to 4 nalgene bottles, that is 4 pounds empty, your better off carrying an gallon milk jug full of water instead, your not wasting weigh on containers, even after empty you still need to lug them with you. Hiking merit badge is easy, it is just walking after all. Fluffy couch potato type, I would start him walking every evening 15 minutes then after a couple of weeks half an hour then so on and so on. NO BACKPACK. in a month 10 miles in a day is easy. 20 miles is another beast, 10 hours of walking a 2 mile an hour pace is a challenge for a young scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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