observed an EBoR last night...

[GKlose]

In the past, I've sat on just one Eagle Scout Board of Review, which had been held at the troop level with a district advancement committee representative. Since then, our council advancement committee worked on a common set of procedures now in place with district advancement committees. The new procedure calls for a district advancement committee board, and a Scoutmaster as observer is permitted. I sat in such a role last night, not as a Scoutmaster, but in lieu of, because the Scoutmaster is related to the candidate. He was on premise and was called in to hear the board results.

 

Of course, I have several observations about the board, but there is one that bothers me in particular. Last night, because of the number of candidates involved, two simultaneous boards were running, each with 3 Scouters (not counting the observers, like me). Of those six Scouters, not one of them was in uniform. The candidates were, of course, because the council Eagle Scout procedures tell them to. The observers were -- I can speak for myself by saying that I respect the process enough that I absolutely would wear a uniform, and didn't consider otherwise.

 

So what do the collective you think? Am I being a "uniform police" by being bothered by this?

 

Guy

[shortridge]

You're right to be concerned.

 

The message we send to Scouts is that if they own a uniform, they should wear it - they can even bring it to meetings and change in the restroom if necessary. Same should apply for Scouters.

[Basementdweller]

Yep, the scouters should have been in uniform, if no other reason than to show respect for the boys.

 

 

This BOR is the high point of a scouting career and it is interesting they treat it so casually.

[Papadaddy]

To paraphrase Beavah...Yah,hmmm. I am ambivalent on this. IF the EBOR members were appropriately dressed (business dress), I am less concerned. Could be, if they own a uniform at all (which is not required), it may be a unit uniform, which would not be appropriate to the occasion. We do EBOR at the unit level, and my pet peeve is when unit committee members look like they just came from the gym, or just got done mowing the lawn. T shirt, gym shorts and flip flops. Really? That's the best you can do for perhaps the most important occasion in the young man's life to date? As the District rep, I am always in a clean, complete uniform.

[GKlose]

I'd say that one was in what is sometimes referred to as "business casual" -- and the others pretty much in blue jeans, but no t-shirts. One guy in particular was kind of scruffy-looking, wearing blue jeans and a sweatshirt.

 

I will say this -- perhaps it is true they don't have silver tabs and have a district committee patch on their uniforms at home. To a Scout, even an Eagle candidate, I don't think that would matter much. I don't think they notice, or grok the concept of, tab color and position patch. They are just going to think "council", maybe, and treat them pretty much like any other Scouter they don't know.

 

I will probably mull this over (and pay attention to the responses here) for awhile...I may send a note or call the district advancement chair (the guy who was "business casual"). I'm also starting to think about volunteering for this board -- I'm on the district committee as a member-at-large, and I've been asked to find a defined role. Might be better to try and fix this from the inside.

 

Guy

[Stosh]

One must also be aware of the prevalent attitude that the Board is judging the Candidate, not the other way around. Due respect is expected, but not returned. I see this all the time from the scouters. Somehow scouters giving respect to scouts tends to be minimally and an individual issue.

 

I had one over-achieving Eagle Candidate ask me to coach him for his EBOR. I asked him what he wanted to get out of it (patch and pin never came up on the list).

 

He came in, stood in front of his chair at attention and gave a salute to the members of the EBOR. 3 EBOR members, with no uniforms, all did the deer-in-the-headlight look until one of them finally said "Okay." The boy then went to each of the members, extended his hand and introduced himself. None of the members stood to return the handshake. He returned to his chair, gave scout sign, Oath and Law. Then stood waiting for the invite to sit. Finally it came.

 

The Board then started into their prepared script of questions. They asked him first how he liked his scouting experience. The Candidate then took control of the process and outlined his scouting career ending with how much he had learned doing his Eagle Project. At the end he opened it up to the Board for any further questions. When he was done he rose, and went to each member of the Board, addressed them by name, shook their hands and thanked them for their participation in the EBOR. Again, none of them stood to receive the handshake. During their deliberation, they spent the first minute looking at each other rather stunned. Finally they asked me about the boy. I told them they all just saw exactly what the boy was. They nodded and called for the boy to return. He came back in and addressed them all by name and stood in front of the chair until invited to sit. He sat quiet through the Board's comments about their affirmative decision. When they dismissed him, he again rose, addressed them by name, shook their hands and thanked them. Once again, none of them rose to congratulate the boy.

 

This boy was selected to speak at the Golden Eagle Dinner that year.

 

The lack of respect received was far pale than that given.

 

I used to think it was the younger generation that had issues with respect, but I thinking it is trans-generational.

 

Lead by example.

 

Stosh

[Eagle92]

Having sat and seen EBORs on the district level, I can tell you that not everyone on the EBOR may be active with a unit, but rather a businessman on the district committee who may not even own a uniform, or not even registered in Scouting. I know of one person on the district advancement committee, whom I am trying to recruit for the unit as his son is in my den, is in this catagory.

 

I've also heard of the mayor and some local politicians sitting on EBORs. I know the mayor is an Eagle, is very interested in the program, and takes every opportunity to visit activities when invited and able.

[pchadbo]

Yeah, I may not be the most objective person as I sit at work in my Scout uniform pants at work as I will not have time between work and travel to change for the pack meeting tonight. . .yeah I think the uniform is important at Scout functions but ESPECIALLY an EBoR.

[GKlose]

Stosh -- an amazing incident. Would love to have observed it. I'd also be interested to hear if you think the board learned something from the incident, and if they modified how they approached later candidates.

 

Thanks,

Guy

[sherminator505]

I wouldn't be concerned about committee members not being in uniform even for an EBOR. Keep in mind that these folks are parents and businessmen, and since their direct contact without the Scouts is usually limited to boards of review, courts of honor and occasionally driving Scouts to and from outings, it is understandable that they wouldn't maintain a uniform.

 

Of course, the local culture of Scouting might play a role in how one might view this issue. In our District Committee, for example, the uniform is expected, but not all districts are like that.

(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Stosh]

Yeah, I was kinda stunned by the incident. Everything I coached him on, he incorporated and improved on.

 

What was even more interesting was the EBOR coordinator said afterwards to the boy (word got around amongst the scouters rather quickly) was that it was not appropriate to use the Scout Salute except for the flag. The boy responded, "With all due respect, that's not what the Scout Handbook states." When the coordinator tried to continue the discussion, the boy took out his Handbook, opened it up and showed the passage to the coordinator. The coordinator did not thank the boy for pointing this out to him, instead he just said, "Oh." and walked away.

 

After the boy graduated high school and aged out, I told him to call me by my first name, that he doesn't have to call me Mr. B____ now that he's an adult. He smiled and said, "That'll never happen."

 

Sometimes the lessons on character building and leadership take hold in the boys. I had always hoped that this boy would become the rule rather than just an exception.

 

Stosh

[Troop185]

Several years ago, a former scout from our troop,(his parents had moved to another town) was going to have his Eagle Court of Honor, with his new troop. In his first two years with our troop, this scout had gone on several wilderness adventures with me; and continued to go on many high adventure trips with our troop, after he moved. We were always glad to have him join us.

 

His new troop was going to have a total of six adults (including the District Advancement Person) sit in on his Board of Review. They told us, that we could have one person from our troop. Our CC was going to sit in, and I volunteer to ride down with him. The scout's mother was a nervous wreck, and I said I would hold her hand, until the review was over. The CC was in his uniform, but I did not wear my uniform. I am an Assistant Scoutmaster, and knew I was not suppose to sit in on Board of Reviews.

 

The Review was starting, and the scout's mother and I were waiting outside in the parking lot, when they came out and ask me if I would sit in on the Review. One of the adults had not shown up. It didn't seem to upset anyone, that I was a SA. It did upset me, that I was not in uniform, and had never sit in on a Board of Review, especially an Eagle!

 

Fortunately, the scout had no problems with the Review. And it was really neat, when they ask him about his favorite times in scouts, and he went on and on, about all the trips he had taken with me. Then he went on about how I had help arrange for him to be a Den Chief, and what a great experience that had been for him.

 

I felt embarrass, but glad I got the opporunity to listen to him, and be a big part of his scouting years.

 

 

 

 

[Frank17]

I would not neccessarily expect all board members to be in scouting uniform, but I would expect all board members to be more formally dressed. Having grown up in Virginia in the 60s & 70s, my idea of formal dress is a lot more formal than I generally see here in Pennsylvania in the new Millenium. But, I would expect clothes that are appropriate for the occasion.

 

There are only 2 times I wear my complete uniform (shirt, belt, pants, socks, neckerchief, hat, coat)for scouts: Our Troop COHs and Eagle BORs.

[Oak Tree]

This is going to come down to local custom, I think. It's nice for the Scout to see that the adults take it seriously, so I'd be in favor of either a uniform or more formal attire.

 

In our district, I don't think I've ever seen anyone do an Eagle BoR without being in uniform, and I've sat in on a number. We'll typically have several running at any one time on the given evening.

[Gary_Miller]

The advancement guide give guidance on how a scout should dress for aBOR. All members of the BOR should be follow the same guidance.