Eagle project hang up

[Oldscout2011]

Ok so I work for a non profit company and we currently have an eagle project going on. They have been showing up unannounced, demanding meetings and access to the area when ever it us most conviant to them and now to top it all off they wants to completely cover the entire bill for the materials for the project.

Now never have reached the rank of an eagle myself i have been in on a few projects with my friends. I know hey have to get the materials covered one way or another, what I need to know is, is the place benefitting from the project responsible for any of the cost of the project?

[moosetracker]

Welcome to the forums!

 

Number one, If you are the benifactor, you are in charge, not them.. If you don't sign off on satisfaction of the project, they don't get the credit for the Eagle project.

 

Therefore you have a right to take control.. Not to the point of changing the contract, but to making sure the contract is to your satisfaction.. What is written in the Eagle project workbook that you signed with them is a contract between you and the boy scout Eagle canidate.. You, or whoever is the person in you organization who signed this contract with the boy, are the boss..

 

If the contract did not state who was paying for the materials for the project, then who ever looked over the project on the boy scout side (A district either has a single person or a board of people, look over the project to make sure it is a solid well thought out plan) did not do a good job, if they did not question who was paying for it..

 

If your organization signed it and it states you are paying for the material.. You may have signed something without looking over the details.. You are responsible for the materials, but shame on the scout for writing that in without verbally asking you..

 

If the contract does not state who is paying for the material, then I would say it is the scouts problem to figure out the fundraising for the project..

 

If you don't have a copy of this contract I would ask for it ASAP..

 

As for when they have access to the project, make sure you give them fair an ample times for access, but it should not be all on their time schedule, you have a say in what is convient for you..

 

You or who ever in your organization, need to start informing this boy as to who is in the boss.. In a nice, educational, beneficial way that allows the scout to learn and grow from the experience.. And maybe the Scout Leaders and troop need to learn the rules also..

 

thank-you for finding us and asking!.. I think this will be a very popular thread, and you will get alot more viewpoints and advice from others..

 

The one thing we want is for our scouts to make a positive impression on the community in all things they do, and especially with their Eagle project as it is to be the culmination of all they learned over their years of scouting.. Unfortunately all troops are varying in the quality of Eagle scouts they turn out, based on the current adult leaders and the historical culture of the troop and what level of excellence they strove for.. For some of us that bar is high, with others it is unfortunately low... And I personally don't mind those with a low bar, getting a wake up call from the community... But, it will be a shock for them to get it..

[Eagle732]

Seems like everyone needs to sit down and set the ground rules on how this project is going to be completed. Your signature is required for completion so you have the hammer, wield it fairly, stick to the letter of the contract and be flexible. After all you both benefit from the project.

 

My Scouts go into a project understanding the expectations, I make sure of that. I also have a discussion with a first time benefiting org. on theirs and the scouts responsibilities. Communications is the key.

[Oldscout2011]

Yes I will ask for a copy of the contract before they continue, and the problem isn't with the boy, but the scout leader. We give them all the access they need during reasonable shop hours and also building time as well. Because of the nature of our place they cannot be left alone where they are building for their safety and the safety of the animals around them.

I was not the one that hammered the contract out with them, but he keeps demanding repayment for the building materials. They have already started and if it doesn't get completed soon he will have to miss this batch of eagle scouts and join the next one.

We have done many projects with the scouts, and enjoy doing them, but this one seems different and more of a problem then a help.

[The Blancmange]

 

They have already started and if it doesn't get completed soon he will have to miss this batch of eagle scouts and join the next one.

This statement along with the fact that the scoutmaster is even involved in the project speaks volumes. Your primary contact should be with the prospective Eagle. You're dealing with a unit that places an undue emphasis on its scouts making Eagle at any cost, and you are witnessing the degredation of the process as a result.

[Eagle92]

Let me guess, they are a troop that does 1 Eagle Court of Honor a year?

 

As others have stated, the SM should not be involved, other than to advise the scout.

 

THE SCOUT needs to be talking to you.

 

THE SCOUT needs to be the one doing the leading.

 

THE SCOUT needs to have come up with the project.

 

If you, as benefactor, are not happy, contact the SCOUT as soon as possible to discuss what is wrong. If there is a "contract" involved, this one is a first for me, make sure all parties have a copy, and you know exactly what is in it so that you everyone knows exactly what is entailed.

 

Most Life scouts do their own fundraising for their projects. Sometimes the agency does give some of the supplies, or money to get them, BUT the SCOUT is responsible for arranging all of that.

[sbemis1]

His workbook should cover how funds will be raised for the project. Since it is a 'service project', part of that service is paying for materials needed. Scouts in my son's troop occasionally receive a donation from the receiving org, but it is neither required nor expected.

The scoutmaster is not involved directly in the project work. (He does always look it over when completed, and occasionally checks with org for satisfaction).

[gcnphkr]

>>>and the problem isn't with the boy, but the scout leader

 

I can think of no reason that a scout leader would be involved like this. Is this a parent?

 

>>>they cannot be left alone where they are building for their safety and the safety of the animals around them

 

Then the scout needs to understand this and plan accordingly. This is your organization's project, on your organizations property. If something goes wrong it will be your organization that is left responsible.

 

>>>if it doesn't get completed soon he will have to miss this batch of eagle scouts and join the next one

 

The unit's traditions are not your concern. Having a half completed project is. The scout needs to complete it because he made a commitment to do it.

 

>>>We have done many projects with the scouts, and enjoy doing them, but this one seems different and more of a problem then a help.

 

Is this a different adult from the other projects or is he just behaving differently? Except for making sure a new organization understands the parameters of an Eagle project and a call at the end to make sure that everything went will, the unit and its leaders have no real part it in except as labor. This is the scout's project. It might be worthwhile contacting the unit's Scoutmaster and having a friendly chat about the adult interference on this. Hopefully he can get the adult to back off. If not, you have the option of politely telling the adult that you are only going to deal with the scout.

 

Who provides the materials is dependent on the agreement made with the scout. In my experience the organization provides the materials if they are materials they regularly use. When these are not materials in the organization's inventory then the scout typically provides them. For example, the city will provide the paint for painting over graffiti on city maintained property or rip-rap for erosion control. But the wildlife rescue facility will not provide the material to build a fence around an enclosure so the scout finds a way to acquire them. Of the 25 Eagle projects I've approved as Scoutmaster and the dozen or so I've reviewed sitting on Eagle Boards I have yet to see a project where the scout was reimbursed by the organization.

 

I take it that the scouts have provided materials for prior projects.

[Lisabob]

I've never heard of a "batch" of Eagle scouts - which raises some concern here. Eagle projects are designed and led by an individual scout, not a batch of Eagle candidates. While there should be multiple people volunteering to assist the scout with his project, there is no such thing as one project counting for a whole group of potential Eagle scouts.

 

Overall, I agree with the suggestion that a sit-down meeting is in order. This should include the scout whose project this is, the person from your company who agreed to the project, whoever at your company ends up supervising/reimbursing pieces of the project, and the scout's SM. Ask to see the scout's Eagle Project workbook in advance of that meeting, and read it carefully so that you understand what the project that was approved by all parties actually is supposed to be. Then at the meeting, hammer out any niggling details that seem to be causing a problem. It is possible that some of the things you are concerned about are legit, and you just didn't know the details of the agreement about the project. (on the other hand, several things smell a little funny here, to me)

[moosetracker]

Eagle92 - if you have been involved with any Eagle projects you know of the contract, just maybe don't think of it in those terms..

 

It is the Eagle project Workbook.. In it the Eagle canidate first must figure out the scope of the project.. What the project encompasses (ex.. build 2 dugouts for the towns little league baseball field with size & other things like painted or with 3 benches.. ect..).. Then the estimate of the cost and how the the cost will be met (sometime organization puts up the funding, sometimes it is half and half, sometimes the scout must raise all the funds.. Figuring out what fundraisers could pay for the costs.. Figuring out who they will be depending on to do be volunteers to work the project (scouts, friends, family, benifiting Org. members etc..) estimating the time it will take to do the project.. etc.. etc..

 

When completed, the unit signs off on the initial plan, the benifiting org. signs off on the initial plan, and before or after these sign-offs (depends on the council or district) a member of the district will signoff on these intial plans..

 

This is now a contract between the scout, the benefiting Org, and the district.. It is up to the scout to fullfill the contract as specified.. The benefiting Org makes sure the contract is met to their satisfaction, and the district will also signoff if the contract was carried out (Usually the district is a rubber stamp if the benifiting org is happy, but sometimes ours has step in if the scout did less then agreed on without contacting a district member about the change, reason for it, and what they can do in place of what was taken out of the contract that is of equal time and/or value. Sometimes a change is necessary, like my son was to do something to the gravesites (think it was to remove moss growing on the tombstones), but the benefiting org found out after agreeing to it, it would erode the tombstones so asked him not to.. He swapped it for something else that was of equal time/benefit..)..

 

So the contract after signed can be tweaked & nudged.. But not without the agreement of all parties involved.. Otherwise what is written on the contract is what the scout follows.. If who is paying for the materials involved was not addressed in the contract, then it is up to the scout to figure out how to get the materials he needs, it is not the problem of the benifiting org to have to solve anything he overlooked in planning out his Eagle project and what he needs to accomplish it..

 

Agree with others, scoutmaster should not be running the show, he can be a worker bee following the leadership of the scout, and provide the adult supervision.. but that is all..

 

Also it would be sad if the scout was close to his 18th birthday, but still not the benifiting orgs problem if he is taking shortcuts with the project due to it.. I as a benefiting org.. should not be at all concerned about him missing some sort of trumped up Eagle group deadline thing the troop or the district has going.. So he falls in the next group of whatever celebration they have.. The District Eagle Board should meet monthly, approves him for Eagle the month afte the project is completed to the benifiting orgs satisfaction.. It goes off to Texas & comes back and he is then officially an Eagle.. Just one waiting a little while for some group celebration..

 

I do hope the cost of materials is not extravagant.. Fundraising for them may put the scout into a delemia, but it is all a part of learning to plan the full scope of the project.. Just be prepared if the materials are way costly.. (like not hundreds but thousands), and the project is large in time to construct.. The scout may not complete the project, because he miscalculated way past his ability.. a couple hundred he should be able to raise..

[shortridge]

"Contract" is definitely the wrong term, IMHO. This should be a relationship based on the question "How can I help you?"

 

If an Eagle candidate is "demanding repayment for the building materials," something's really screwed up.

 

You have the right to walk away from this Scout if the situation is causing too much trouble. You are under no obligation to allow him to cause problems for you.

[moosetracker]

In a form of a contract that the benefiting Org is bond to, even if the project becomes a nightmare.. Shortridge is right.. The Benefiting Org can walk away.. But in all fairness the scout shouldn't be 95 to 100% completed on the project before that decision is made..

 

In terms of the benefiting Org asking for help on A. and the scout completes then the org deciding B. C. & D would be helpful also and demanding the scout do that for them to sign off on the project.. What is agreed to is binding they should sign off when what is agreed upon is completed satisfactorly.. Now if the scout wants to continue on his own, or there is another Eagle canadate willing to start a new project to do B. C. & D.. that is a different matter..

 

In terms of the Scout must feel that they must follow and complete what they agreed to do, per what is in writting on the proposal, and it is to the quality that the Benefiting Org. is satisfied with.. Or if changes are necessary they are agreed upon between scout, Benefiting Org, and district member assigned to review or oversee the project, it should be seen as a contract.

 

They can't promise to do one thing, do half of it in a sloppy manner, and demand that the Benefiting org sign off because they ran out of time to complete it and it is a week before their 18th birthday.

 

They can't agree to fundraiser for materials then demand the benefiting org foot the bill because the fundraiser are just too hard, or they didn't raise the expected amount..

 

In most instances I see it as a contract.. But, the Benefiting org can walk away.. Or the scout can walk away.. In either case the Eagle workbook is not signed off, but you really can't take each other to court over it either.. In that instance it is not a contract. The Benefiting org will just need to find someone else to complete the project, or rip the incompleted project down.

edited to add:

One more thing, if the workbook has you the benifiting org paying for the materials.. That means you get control of the materials.. The boy does not get to go out and buy walnut wood at the most expensive place because it is convient for him.. You can choose to make it out of Pine, ask what is needed and supply it from the economy store, or from the store that will give you 50% donation for what you buy from them or whatever.. Do not settle for them buying whatever they so choose, and just throwing the reciepts at you expecting you to pay up..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Eagle92]

Moose,

 

Never heard of the workbook being called a contract before. That's what thew me off.

 

Trust me, I know all about the Workbooks You can read elsewhere about my EBOR and Workbook situation.

 

As to the "batch of eagles" comment, I know of troops that only do 1 Eagle Court of Honor a year. Usually folks in those units are not rushing to complete Eagle before 18, but rather in time for that one Eagle Court of Honor with their friends.

 

Makes for a long District Eagle Board of Review nite for teh EBOR members.

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm with shortridge and Eagle 92 ---- the idea of calling the Eagle project a contract seems a stretch and exageration.

 

I'm sympathetic to Oldscout's grievances. The Scout (not the adult) needs to be the one dealing with the non profit and working out any issues. I see no evidence that OldScout is being at all unreasonable.

 

Unless there has been a clear agreement that the benefitting organization will supply materials, it would be wrong to feel they must or ought to be supplied. Funding the project is properly the concern of the Scout.

 

If OldScout doesn't have a copy of the work book, he should require that a copy be given to him so he can see what the Scout is expected to do.

 

Keep in mind that if an organization has a bad experience with an Eagle project, no other Scout in the future in likely to have a similar opportunity.

 

Keeping the "customer" happy is properly one of the skills involved in completing an Eagle project in my opinion, and the Scout in this one seems to be failing in that task so far. If the Scout can't manage that, I wouldn't blame Oldscout for terminating the project.

 

 

[Oldscout2011]

Thanks for all your great advice. I have talked to the people that had more to do with all of this and it looks like the scoutmaster has been the one pushing this for the kid all along. He contacted us about the project, not sure how they came up with the 600$ the needed to do the project ( even though the quoted us at 400$). He is there every day kind of pushing the kids along and making sure they are done onetime.

 

The rush to feet this done is because the kid will be turning 18 soon and apparently it is very important to his far her that he becomes eagle scout. And around where I live they do one eagle court of honor for like 5 or 6 kids at a time.

 

I have talked to the rest of the people that are dealing with this and if things don't improve we will either be backing out or not sighning off on his book. He is rebuilding a small storage shead roof that a different eagle scout built and he has been doing this for about 2 months now.

 

Again thanks for all your support and your excellent feedback.