Addititional Eagle requierments

[twoeagles]

This week my son submitted his Eagle project plans. Some of the things that he got dinged on where no big deal, his plans need to be more detailed.

 

One of the dings that I'm having a hard time understanding is the "Phase Two of the Project"(exact written SM words). I had him call his SM just to clarify it, I thought that he had misunderstood something.

 

What "Phase Two of a Project" is, a boy must write into his plans, work for other boys in the troop, who are not directly involved in the Eagle project, to be done at the place of the Eagle project while the Eagle project is going on.

 

My Advancement Committee book from 2008 (is there a newer one?) doesn't mention anything remotely close to this.

 

Can the SM, CC & CM force him to comply with this requirement? His project leans to more skilled labor not boy scout labor. I didn't remember reading anything about a ratio or minimum of boy scout labor.

 

So what is a 15 year old boy scout supposed to do / say when he is sitting across the table from his SM, CC and a CM (all three have a combined over 110 years of scouting)who are trying to strong arm him into writing into his project something that is not required?

 

This is sort of like the 100 hour myth.

[Oak Tree]

twoeagles, as you apparently are already pretty clear on, this is not a legitimate requirement for an Eagle project. It is clearly adding to the requirements. There is no minimum of Boy Scout labor.

 

Now, can they force him to comply? No, they can't really force him (or you) to do anything. They can indicate that they won't sign off on his Eagle project. You can go to your District Advancement Coordinator, or your Council Advancement Coordinator, or to your unit commissioner, or COR, or IH. You can go to your DE or your SE.

 

Your son could also switch troops. Or he could register as a Lone Scout.

 

Or he could write in something like "The rest of the troop will mow the church lawn while the project is being carried out."

 

All depends on how much he wants to stand on principle and how much he just wants to be done with it.

[ScoutNut]

He could also write that, due to safety concerns (you mentioned "skilled" labor needs), ONLY people actually working on the project should be in the area.

 

Or

 

Due to the fact that this is NOT a Troop project, and requires more skilled help, ONLY those people actually working on the project should be there. Therefore, providing alternate activities, or babysitting, for non-working youth is not necessary to the project plan.

 

Good luck to your son!

 

[evmori]

An Eagle project does not require any assistance from any of the members of the Scout's unit.

[bpaul]

When I read the original post, the first thing that popped into my head was a concern by the adult leadership that when seeing "skilled labor" there was a concern for how the project would really be completed and the Scout might not be able to adequately express his leadership capabilities.

 

I only make this observation, because I have been on projects where the "professional/skilled labor" tried to take over the task just to get the project done, rather than await the direction of the Scout leading the project.

 

Is it possible that this was really the concern of the adult leadership and they were trying to ensure that the prospective Eagle Scout had something in his write-up to cover that possibility?

[ghermanno]

TwoEagles,

 

After reading your post, I have two concerns/questions:

 

1) What is the project?

 

2) If it requires skilled labor, does your son have the skills so as to manage the project or is he just hiring a crew to do the project?

 

The major point to the project, in my opinion, is that it benificial to an organization and be something that the Scout can show the planning, funding, and execution of. Yes I am being a bit vague your description sounds more of a "I will hire a crew to do xxx and manage it" type of project.

 

Based soley on what was posted, I would have rejected it outright. Maybe I just need more details but I do not see your son directing, funding, manageing skilled labor.

 

My $0.02 for what it is worth.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[Stosh]

I have been involved in troop only Eagle projects and Eagle projects that have little or no troop involvement. Some of the projects require non-troop personnel, others don't. It is up to the Eagle candidate to make the call.

 

I had one boy coordinate a church clean up after having an addition put on. The boys and church members were coordinated and supervised by the Eagle candidate. But when professional landscapers came in they were supervised by the scout with the professionals giving advise and direction as to where each plant should be placed and it was done so by unskilled scouts and church members.

 

To me the supervision of the project shows leadership and delegating professional expertise to those who know best is a good option for the supervisor. Use your tools to the best of their abilities.

 

On the other hand I had another Eagle candidate clean up a park and no scout was using a chain saw, but the candidate was directing, identifying trees and coordinating the clean up by non-chain saw personnel after they had finished their part of the work.

 

An Eagle candidate who does not involve professional personnel may in fact be showing less quality leadership than deciding to use the best on the project.

 

Who makes the call? The candidate, not the SM or any other adult in the troop.

 

Both these boys Eagled and will be having their ECOH's in the next few months. I signed off their project proposals with a brief scan to get a general idea of what the projects were, and on the Eagle applications. Otherwise my only other participation in the projects was to bring gloves and come ready to work.

 

Stosh

[Phibbles]

Perhaps the scouts can come to the job site and provide other assistance. Maybe they can serve lunch to the crew. Clean-up the grounds after the work is done. Something like that.

 

I could be wrong, but it sounds like the SM just wants the Eagle project to have some troop involvement. While it may not be required, wouldn't it be nice?

[Beavah]

Yah, twoeagles, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in da wording your son's SM used, eh?

 

I see this as being a SM tryin' to help a lad be successful. As ghermmano writes, a lot of districts would look at somethin' like this and reject it as a project outright, because of concerns that it doesn't meet da leadership requirements for a project.

 

So your son's SM is tryin' to help him flesh out the project to incorporate more opportunities to show real leadership, so that his project is more likely to be approved. Since the current focus of da project (electrical wiring by a professional) isn't likely to incorporate that, he's suggesting your son add a "phase two" or an additional piece of service which can be done with less skilled labor that is under your son's direction.

 

Your son's SM is doin' his job to help your lad be successful in front of a district review.

 

I'd gently suggest that da proper response is to encourage your son, trust in his ability to work it out with da SM, and quietly thank the SM on the side for helpin' your son focus his project to ensure success.

 

Beavah

 

 

[Brian85]

Is it an unreasonable request? No. Maybe he is trying to imply that a little bit more leadership is required. I don't know what the project is, what your son has done in Scouting, etc. maybe, just maybe the 100 plus years of Scouting might be prodding for more leadership.

I recently saw a project completed by an individual that was a huge fundraiser to allow him to hire some heavy equipment operators to establish a diversion for runoff from flooding a city park. Where was the leadership? I don't really think he led the equipment operators, nor the foremen. Being a general contractor is not leadership.

The Eagle Project is not just a requirement, it is the capstone piece that defines a Scout's career. It is a culmination of the aims and methods of Scouting all wrapped into one simple requirement. If the TC and SM want a little more, call it phase two, call it whatever, it is true leadership. Good luck and keep the push. At least your not asking what Scout Spirit is all about!

[sherminator505]

"a boy must write into his plans, work for other boys in the troop, who are not directly involved in the Eagle project, to be done at the place of the Eagle project while the Eagle project is going on."

 

What?! The point of leadership in an Eagle Scout project is to lead the Scouts (and perhaps others) in the work. Why on Earth would you have Scouts showing up to an Eagle Scout project and not be involved in the work? And why would it be the Eagle Scout candidate's job to keep those Scouts occupied? This makes no sense whatsoever.

[Stosh]

Demonstrating leadership of whom or what?

 

Leadership of a task means getting it done and one can do that by themselves.

 

Leadership of others is just that others, not just a certain few the SM feels is appropriate.

 

A Eagle candidate that takes on a major project requiring skilled talent and then relies on unskilled people is setting himself up for failure.

 

How is telling a scout to rake leaves from this place to another place any different than telling a skilled landscaper where to plant bushes?

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC]

Here's the point: There's no reason a Scout cannot use adults to execute an ELSP. There's nothing in the literature that require only current Scouts to be the labor pool for an ELSP. What matters is the labor pool gives deference to the candidate as project leader.

 

If you want to read the backstory, it begins now. If not, scroll to the next post:

 

EagleSon's ELSP was bringing barbershop music to two different Veterans Administration medical centers and the areas two childrens' hospitals.

 

He selected the music to be used (granted it came from a selection of Barbershop Harmony Society standards).

 

He trained the volunteers who supported him on hospital safety/personal information security/privacy standards (using curricula supplied by the hospital).

 

He coordinated the visits of specific quartets to the hospitals (how would you like it if your Eagle project execution phase could only be done in 6 man-hour increments at a time?)

 

He escorted the quartets, and coordinated each event with the floor nursing staff.

 

He obtained a waiver of mechanical license from the Barbershop Harmony Society. Using that waiver, he recorded video CDs and audio CDs for each hospitals recreational therapist.

 

His labor pool? The members of his area barbershop chorus. To a man, they were no less than 25 years older than he. Many were retired military. They understood what was going on, and deferred to him. They let him make a mistake or two, and helped him learn from it!

 

Our DAC personally did the project review, and signed off as a worthy project. In fact, he'd been looking for a Scout to do something that wasn't "brick and mortar" related. He has long held a copy EagleSon's project workbook as an example for unit leaders who have Scouts wanting to do something out of the box.