Yet another advancement rumor

[Hal_Crawford]

I was talking with a member of our DAC a couple of weeks ago and he told me that effective the first of the year the council will no longer accept multiple boards of review for the same scout on the same day. We occasionally have scouts go for two (T-2 or 2-1) or sometimes three on the same day.

 

I don't necessarily think this would be a bad change but when I asked where I could see this in writing he didn't have an answer. I said it sounded to me like adding a requirement. He said he thought it might be just a council policy. Again, sounds like adding requirement. He said that there were currently a number of trial programs in various councils. I know this is true as we are one of the councils where they are going to require that all leaders be trained. Still, when it comes to advancement it should be a written rule.

 

The question is, has anyone else heard about this one? Artjrk, we are in the same council, have you heard about this?

 

I doubt our committee will change their routine until they see this in writing.

 

Hal

[evmori]

In the 1st place, how would the DAC even know? This is all done at the unit level.

 

In the 2nd place, I feel it is adding to the requirements.

[shortridge]

What would be the rationale for such a change? I don't get it.

[John-in-KC]

Ed, it'd be real simple:

 

One advancement report, moving a youth through 2 or more ranks on the same day. That's a simple software user warning in Internet Advancement, and a "don't accept this" for paper copy advancement reports submitted to the Registrar. That's the technical stuff. As far as advancement itself goes, if National includes a line in the 2010 ACP&P or in Requirements, it's a done deal. Period.

 

Hal,

 

I'd ask three questions:

 

- What is the National policy this procedure implements?

 

- If you get the deer in the headlights stare, then Q2: What are you going to do when the first appeal for rank denied by the Council rolls in?

 

- If you still get the deer in the headlights stare: What are you going to do when Billy Jones, whose Dad is Jack Jones of the Washington Times, writes an article about the Scout Council denying an advancement for bureaucratic reasons?

 

If he can answer Q1, the other two are moot.

 

Shortridge, back in the dark ages of the late 60s, when I was a youth member, I remember T being about knots, 2 being about hiking, and 1 being about camping. You could not get things signed off for 2 or 1 until you were T, ditto 1 until you were 2.

 

You did learn camping and cooking though (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Hal_Crawford]

I pretty much told him that we would have to see it writing before any troop policies/behavior would change. Trust me, no parent in our troop works for the Washington Times; our most conservative members are more liberal than that. Still, it is a point well taken. We certainly have parents who will say' "show me the rule in writing".

 

Yes, I remember the days of not being able to start working on 2 until you were a T etc not to mention time in rank requirements. Doubt we are going back there but with the new Scout Law requirements it might make some sense to put a little distance between the ranks. On the other hand it could be a real problem for those troops (not ours) that do quarterly BORs.

 

Anyway, I will be interested to see if this turns out to be a real change or just another advancement rumor.

 

Hal

 

Hal

 

[SSScout]

Hal: It is only a rumor on this side of the river, too. But the effect would be the same, consternation.

 

Since it is no longer required to spend time in rank before the next advancement, it is very common to pass a couple of rank items at the same time: frinstance, after the Scout earns "Scout", there will be an occasion to earn the First Aid MB, say, during a series of F/A classes after Troop meeting. Earning the F/AMB obviates the F/A requirements for TF, 2 and 1. Presto.

Pioneering MB obviates all the knot and lashing requirements for T, 2 and 1.

We recently had a 15 year old TF, a very active in the Troop young man, FINALLY awarded his 2, 1 AND Star at the SAME CoH! Lots of good natured applause and cheers. I cannot testify as to the exact reasons, but he camped and hiked and sang with all of us often, served as ASP and SP previous. He then worked as a counselor at Council summer camp.

So maybe we list the BoRs as 25, 26, 27 October?

[evmori]

Until National makes it a policy, it's not.

[Hal_Crawford]

SSScout:

How could a scout do 2-1-Star at the same time? The scout has to serve for 4 months as a First Class scout in order to satisfy the requirements for Star. Does your troop do COHs that rarely?

 

We had a 15 year old who had returned after a long absence do T-2-1 in a couple of months. T and 2 BORs on one date and the First Class a few weeks later. This burst of achievement was motivated by the desire to qualify for a high adventure trek. Not sure he would have made it if he had to do all three BORs on separate nights.

 

Hal

[Oak Tree]

I don't believe it. This is a strange way to go about it. If they wanted the Scout to spend time between ranks, they could just make that a requirement ("Be active as a Tenderfoot Scout for one month.)

 

Since they recommend that BORs are held at least quarterly, it just seems like this rumor would be a crazy change. They're usually all about not adding additional obstacles to the national requirements.

[Eagle92]

Concur with others, want to see it in writing from NATIONAL, not council, as that sounds very appeallable to me. As for doing 2 or three ranks in a nite. Been there, done that. Except that since this was so new, prior to this you had time requirements between each rank, instead of having 1 BOR for all three ranks, we did three separate boards, at 3 different times in the same nite.

 

Thinking about it, that was the last BOR id did as a youth, as prior to that time YOUTH were on the T-2-1 BORS in my troop.

[ScoutNut]

>>"FINALLY awarded his 2, 1 AND Star at the SAME CoH!">"So maybe we list the BoRs as 25, 26, 27 October?"

[gcnphkr]

I'm having a hard time picturing the circumstances where this would be necessary. Some scout has been active enough to go camping, and do his 30 day fitness follow up. Has gone on another 4 activities including two more campouts but could not fit in a BOR. Then goes on another 5 activities with at least one campout. And only then is able to have a BOR.

 

While I agree that this would constitute an added requirement, but it seems to me that either the troop does not have BORs often enough or has a very odd program. I can see the occasional older scout as in SSScouter's example. It certainly should be rare enough that 1) no one would have thought of making the rule and 2) no would think it would be an real issue if they did.

 

I'm also trying to picture the evening for the scout: Does his BOR for Tenderfoot, then gets with the SM for a SMC. Another BOR for Second Class, then back for another SMC and final BOR. Just what to to talk about during the two SMCs and the last two BORs?

[Hal_Crawford]

We occasionally have scouts that have one or two requirements left for Tenderfoot while they are almost done on second class (or second and first or all three). These are scouts who have been around long enough to qualify for the number of activities/campouts but just didn't do that first aid requirement when the other guys did. Suddenly he has an opportunity to complete several requirements and he is done with two or more ranks.

 

Our SM will do one conference for multiple ranks if need be. Our troop tries to hold BORs at least monthly and often on an as needed/as available basis. When I was CC (I am an ASM now) we would sometimes do two or three BORs for the same scout back to back. We would space out the questions across the separate BORs starting with looking back and ending with looking forward. Of course one of the questions would be along the lines of "you seemed stuck at Scout but now you're ready for two (or three) ranks. What has motivated you to finish these requirements?" I am not sure what the current committee is doing, we had a couple of multiples after summer camp and I don't know whether they combined BORs or did separate ones.

 

Back to original post. I spent some time looking at our council website and I think I see the misunderstanding. The site goes to some length to amplify the policy of continuing a rank in progress with the old requirements (as stated in the new HB). The site says that extends to the next rank to be earned but once the scout has done a BOR for that rank all subsequent ranks will be with the new requirements. I suspect that someone may have asked if a scout could do multiple ranks on the same day with the old requirements. The answer would be no. I suspect that my source heard part of that conversation and taken out of context drew a conclusion that multiple BORs where no longer acceptable. That's how rumors work.

 

 

That's my best guess. There is certainly a lot of detail on the council site about the new changes but not a peep about the multiple BORs.

 

Hal

[Oak Tree]

Hal, That sounds like a pretty reasonable explanation. I'll go with that.

 

jet526, this happens on a fairly regular basis in our troop (maybe 2-3 times per year, I'm not sure). The most common combination is Second Class/First Class. It usually happens with Scouts who are only attending half the meetings/campouts, and they've missed the several opportunities to complete some of the Second Class items, so they'll typically have one of them left: five mile hike, sharpening an ax on a campout, flag ceremony, first aid, swim test, drug program. Then they decide they want to finish First Class, and in one weekend they'll blitz all the remaining requirements.

 

We used to actually do two Scoutmaster conferences and two BORs (you don't have to have completed the first BOR in order to do the second Scoutmaster conference, as far as I can tell). But now we will typically just do one conference and one BOR for both, because as you note, it can be hard to think of new things to talk about. Sometimes we've done two BORs with two different sets of committee members.

[artjrk]

Hal

 

I haven't heard anything about this at my end. But your latest interpretation sounds very plausible.

 

BTW my son was one of those kids who did T-2-1 all at once. He had signed up for a conference in the Fall after camp for T-2 ( three years ago before I became SM) He was part of a large group of new 1st years. By the time the SM got around to him, a matter of 2 months, he had finished 1st Class as well. Interestingly enough after reaching 1st Class in just a matter of months, he has not advanced another rank. But he is quite active, held several PoRs because he sees a need. He just doesn't care for MBs. I'm fine with that BTW.