First Class in a year

[Buffalo Skipper]

I have understood that programs should work toward having it's scouts reach First Class in one year (scouting myth?). Right or wrong, how do you all feel about this? There are lots of aspects to discuss regarding here: skill level/experience, pushing too hard, and burn out, just to name a few.

 

And for those of you with many years of experience as scout leaders, does this work? and why or why not?

[EagleBeaver]

Our troop offers a program that allows a scout to complete T-2-1 requirements in 12-16 months, but very, very few actually do that. Each scout advances at his own rate, diverted from participating in scouting by school, sports, vacation, ... - each a different variable for each scout.

 

In general, we see around 6 to 8 months per rank on average.

 

Scout On

[Stosh]

The opportunity to do so is available. If the boy wishes to do it, they can. If they don't care, they won't.

 

I have had some boys get it in 7-8 months and others take a couple of years. Peer pressure goes a long way in keeping everyone on task, but if they don't care, you're fighting a losing battle.

 

Stosh

[CA_Scouter]

I have 9 Life scouts and an Eagle in a troop of 16. Only one of them made first class in his first year. ( He is 14, the other 9 are 16-17 ).

 

We provide the opportunities but we leave it up to the scout to get 'er done. Most of the guys get to first class in a year and a half or so...

 

 

[NC Scouter]

Just like the others who have replied we do our best to give new scouts opportunities to complete the T-2-1 requirements by the end of their first 14 months in the troop (March crossover through May of the following year). We do that mostly as part of the general troop program but supplement that with a day hike or an overnighter.

 

And as others have also said the results are a mixed bag. And that's fine. The boys progress at their own pace. Last year's group was generally not very focused and only one or two of the twelve are First Class even now. This year's group seems much more focused and I expect 4-6 to get there by next May with several others not far behind, probably getting there by the end of summer camp.

 

There are several troops in the area that hustle all the new scouts through an advancement-focused program that appears to me to be more of a Webelos III experience.

 

Whether or not the new scouts are focused enough to get to First Class they at least have lots of opportunities to develop and enjoy themselves, which helps retention. Advancement is only one of the Methods. (Someone was going to say it sooner or later!)

[Beavah]

Yah, Buff. It's a good question.

 

From what I've seen over da years in a lot of troops, First Class/First Year (aka "First Class Emphasis") was a bad program change for most of Scoutin'. It did, however, make the program alignment for the LDS units much easier, and works for them.

 

I think it takes a fair bit longer than a year for a lad to really master and feel confident in all those skills. Yah, sure, you can expose a boy to 'em, but that's a very different thing than a boy actually learning. Learnin' takes time, practice, screw-ups, coaching. Especially when yeh have a month between outings. Lots of things fall out of kids' brains in a month or two.

 

First Class Scout used to be a big milestone in a Scout's career, eh? It meant that now he was completely able to camp and life on his own without help, in all kinds of conditions, activities, etc. Because he was completely able to take care of himself, he was now ready to start takin' care of others by moving into leadership and other responsible positions in the troop.

 

I think in a FCFY program, that's not what da rank means anymore. As a result, da adults don't trust a First Class lad to be on his own. Would you trust a group of your First Class Scouts to be completely on their own? Supposedly, they know a lot of practical first aid, can plan and cook meals, navigate, camp, swim, understand safety, the whole shootin' match. We should be able to trust 'em to be completely on their own, if we've done our jobs.

 

But we can't do that job in a year. So we go through the motions, eh? We teach 'em "about" cooking, and let 'em do it once or twice each, then sign 'em off. They never learn how to cook. We run a first aid class, let 'em practice a couple times, then sign 'em off. They never learn how to really respond to a first aid situation. And worse, some units start to develop a full "curriculum" for First Class in a year. Blech.

 

And since the adults can't trust a First Class Scout to be self-sufficient, they certainly don't trust him to really start to lead as he works toward Star and Life. So it reverberates up the program in negative ways.

 

Finally, it pushes everyone into da LDS model of finishing Boy Scouting by age 14. If your kids make First Class in a year, what then? Gotta keep up da race. Or at least gotta have something for 'em to do, and you've already set the tone of "focus on advancement!". So the 12 year old has to be found a "leadership" position or such, even though we all know from ages & stages that that isn't usually the right thing to do for a boy at that age. And there's pressure to push on for Star and Life at age 13, and then Eagle-and-out at age 14/15 (or go dormant for 3-4 years and then do da deathbed Eagle thing).

 

I know a bunch of folks in Irving like the whole Boy-Scouting-is-a-middle-school-program notion. And there's some merit to headin' that way. But to my mind it requires re-thinkin' the advancement stuff. Maybe First Class should be the top award for Boy Scouting, which finishes at the end of the 8th grade.

 

With da current advancement program, I think it works better if they trust da BSA's "classic" way of approachin' the T-2-1 ranks, and ignore da FCFY revision.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[acco40]

I have to disagree with you on this one Beavah. Or, I gotta disgree?

 

Annual planning should provide the opportunity for boys to obtain 1st Class in their first year. For an active scout who attend 8 - 10 outings and has a desire to accomplish this - it should be a piece of cake.

 

The reason the BSA has pushed this is that statistics has shown that Scouts who earn 1st Class in their first year tend to stay with the program.

[Knot Head]

About half our guys get FCFY. We camp 18 nights on our own (Fri & Sat) +3 nights winter camp + 6 nights summer camp. Some kids attend all 27 nights the first year and have at least 7 merit badges (4 summer, 3 winter) by the bridge anniversary. They are just fired up and so they show up. We don't push it but if they show up that much they usually get there. Guys that miss some outings take 1.5 years or so.

 

EDIT 18 nights not 20, we take July off.(This message has been edited by knot head)

[eghiglie]

When I started the troop in 2007 I was told by Council that I should have a FYE to get boys to FC in 11 to 13 months because advancement was a priority.

 

We did plan it, because Council 'said so'. Reality was different, boys would miss meetings, forgot to get things signed, forget what they were taught when they went to get tested or left the book home. Quite a few would do it wrong and want it signed off anyway.

 

Most boys stay in a rank for six months (give or take) so we decided to abandon the plan because it was a lot of effort.

 

Every other month the PLC plans an early rank theme. Like first aid for the month. The other months are merit badge themes. Works much better for us.

 

[NealOnWheels]

The correct name is "First Class Emphasis".

 

My Woodbadge cource director was a member of the national advancement committee that developed "First Class Emphasis".

 

It seems to be one of the least understood programs of the BSA.

 

Yes its purpose is retention. Scouts who learn basic scout skills quickly and then move on to more adventurous activities do stay in scouting longer. At one time there were statistics to back this up but in recent years I cannot find these.

 

The idea is not to make every scout get first class in their fist year.

 

The idea is to plan activities for the New Scout Patrol that they have the opportunity to earn First Class in one year. Maybe they will earn it. Maybe they won't.

 

Think about from the perspective a new scout. You join because you are promised a lot of adventure. Instead you end up going to meeting after meeting for 2 or 3 years doing nothing but basic scouting skills and very little adventure you are not very inclined to continue. Instead if you quickly get the scouting skills you need for more adventurous activities and then get the adventures you were promised then you just might stay.

[Eagle92]

I have mixed emotions on this topic. Now I got 1st class in 14 months, this was back in the old days when you had to have First Aid MB for First Class and there were time restrictions between all the ranks.. I would have gotten FC within a year if I went to summer cmap at 11 though. Between the first year camper program at camp, and the troop's normal program, camping and/or hiking every month save December (COH/Christmas Party) it was very doable. Not many did though.

 

However when the FCE program came out, many promoted the idea that a scout MUST get FC in a year. Along with that the time restrictions went away, and I know some folks don't like them but I did,so did Skill Awards. So some troops DID create programs to ram scouts through.

 

The key is that SCOUTING is a game with a prupose. Scouts need to go at their own pace. The opportunity for advancement is there, but they goat their own pace.

[evmori]

T21 is when the "skills" are learned and honed. Pushing through these ranks might work for some but not all.

 

Supposedly, there are statistics that state if a boy earns 1st Class in one year he is more likely to stay in Scouting. I've asked but no one seems to be able to produce the statistics that back up that claim.(This message has been edited by evmori)

[BrentAllen]

None of our Scouts are earning FC in 12 months. It is closer to 16 - 18 months. We aren't having any problems with retention. As has been pointed out, I think the real problem with retention comes if the Scout does earn FC/FY, and gets Eagle fairly early - you lose them soon after.

 

We run an active program - most boys meet the Activity requirement for FC in 8 or 9 months. But to learn the skills, it takes longer than that. We don't hold a "Scout Skills" campout as some Troops do, which may slow us down compared to some. We view advancement as one of the 8 methods, not as the most important part of the program.

 

We had a wilderness survival campout this past weekend. I had one Scout ask what First Class rank advancement requirements he would be able to complete on this trip. The only one was #1, which he had completed, so he didn't attend the trip. IMO, he has the wrong focus on the program - it isn't just to complete requirements and earn badges - it is to have fun and learn. On this trip, the boys built shelters using only natural materials, and slept in them. They started fires without matches. They learned how to properly use a signal mirror. And they had a LOT of fun while doing it! This Scout missed all of that because he was solely focused on a rank badge. He is from a wealthy family, goes to a private school, and participates in a lot of activities. I think he needs to slow down and smell the roses.

[GKlose]

I've seen the other end of the spectrum, and it isn't so pretty.

 

A Webelos den that was pretty tight moved into a scout troop in June. They didn't like how things were going, so by November they were splitting off and forming their own troop. One "patrol", but it's really Webelos III style with perpetual father-son camping. Their advancement goal was not unlike Cub Scouts: one rank a year.

 

They're now in their 3rd year of existence, and they're finally getting around to working on First Class.

[GKlose]

Brent, I think 16 to 18 months isn't an unreasonable goal. After all, if a Scout joins in spring, and stays reasonably active, summer camp the first summer through summer camp in the second summer, that covers about 16 to 18 months. By that time, they'll probably have a few camp merit badges too (handicrafts, maybe Swimming, First Aid -- that kind of thing).

 

I had a similar experience to your "wealthy family" example -- on a Webelos Den visit to our troop meeting, I pulled parents aside while Webelos were being entertained. One of the points I stressed is that while Cubs are a parent-child program, Boy Scouting isn't -- it's all based on personal initiative.

 

One dad, who my wife knows very well, and I know through Cub Scouts, is that sort of wealthy family type. I don't know the extent of his son's "issues", but I do know he has trouble focusing, and with causing disruptions, and his parents are usually very close by.

 

Dad was very concerned: "how soon can [he] earn Eagle?"

 

I repeated the mantra that it is based on personal initiative, and it would be up to his son. The question was repeated, "but how quickly?" I said that there are reports of 13-year-old Eagle Scouts, but they are highly focused, highly driven individuals.

 

I think Dad was of the advancement mind of earning Eagle and then moving on to some other activity.

 

Ultimately, they chose a different troop along with his buddy, but before summer was out Dad was transferred to another state. It would have been interesting to watch his son's progress.