Non-active scout wanting Eagle

[Gutterbird]

I have situation, a particular scout has not been coming to meetings, when he does show up (maybe 3 meetings this year) he sits in the back and gets up and leaves when he wants. He will not participate in troop or patrol activities. I have even made in effort and gone out of my way to get him involved. I will give him tasks but meet resistance; I will not force him to do anything. He has not been on a troop campout or outing since July 06. He has no POR time and will not take a leadership position. I have even created a position just for him to accommodate his schedule but he did not want it. He was signed up to go to summer camp but changed his mind. When I do run into him, he reminds me he just needs 2 more MBs and his Eagle project and he will be Eagle. I have taken him aside and explained to him that that is not the case and that he needed to be active, participate in the troop, and take a leadership position. Now here is the kicker, the CC is still telling this scout that he just needs the 2MB and eagle project. I have had a talk with the CC to explain to him that that is not the case and explained why. The CC even suggested he go it alone as a Lone Scout. I had my doubt about him qualifying as a Lone Scout but asked the council anyways to please the CC. The council stated he did not meet the requirements for Lone Scout. I will not sign this scout off until he meets ALL requirements. Eagle is a very prestigious award and I feel the scouts must earn it as per BSA policy. Am I right taking this position?

[nolesrule]

You have to complete the requirements to earn the rank.

 

On the Eagle Application, he has to provide what positions of responsibility he held and what dates he held them.

[BadenP]

Gutterbird

I agree with nolesrule the kid has to earn it. If he is young enough to finish all the requirements and is willing to put in the work then fine otherwise its, "so sad too bad."

[eisely]

As you describe the situation, it sounds pretty clear. Nevertheless be prepared for a lot of grief if he does not get his eagle on your watch. I hope your records regarding non performance of any POR are good.

[scoutldr]

Gutterbird,

 

YOu already know the right answer. Stick to your guns! ALL of the requirements must be met...including Scout spirit, which it seems is lacking here.

[Beavah]

Yah, in the case of the boy, I think you follow your conscience and da advancement requirements, eh? And maybe, if things are really what you say, yeh should just drop this boy from the roster. He really isn't participatin'. How many school clubs or sports teams do you know that would keep a boy on the rolls if he hadn't shown up for nearly 3 years?

 

Unfortunately, yeh have a more serious problem. You've got a CC who is interferin' where he shouldn't, and perhaps a CC and Committee who aren't on the same page with you in terms of their vision for what the troop is trying to accomplish with young men. That's something to address. If by the grace of God you actually have a decent unit commissioner, yeh might pull them in, along with the Chartered Organization and its representative. There might be some need for trainin', but there's certainly some need for developing a common vision. The CC should be your partner and backup in keeping the troop on the road to success, eh? And if he can't be that, then yeh need a new CC (or they need a new SM).

 

It's ideal to address these things when you're not having a "big issue" that everyone is getting all emotional about. Address it as a discussion of what yeh all value, and want to achieve positively for kids.

 

Beavah

 

[evmori]

Stick to your guns and keep your eyes on the CC!

 

[OldGreyEagle]

You said you created a POR for the boy and he never did anything with it. Was he ever listed as holding that position?

 

I do not beleive he should be an Eagle, but if he is listed as being in a POR for six months, you may have to explain why you ddint remove him before the six months was up if the youth appeals your decision.

 

How long does the youth have until 18? I would make out a schedule for him with dates starting this week end, list the troop schedule, keep track of when he attends (sounds easier to tract his attendance than his no shows)Then when you are questioned in the youth's fitness for Eagle you can show what you did and his subsequent participation

[Gutterbird]

He never accepted the POR position I created for him. The position I created was Scout Service Project Coordinator. I told him he would help set up and run various troop service projects. Something he could do during his down time when not at school or work. When I presented this to him, he just told me he did not have the time for it, therefore, never held a POR.

Looking at my records, he attended only 4 meetings this year and his last outing with the troop was July 2007. Since I have been SM (FEB 07), he has not participated in any service projects, 1 fundraiser, and 1 campout. My next step is to sit down with his parents and explain what all he needs to do. He still has almost 2 yrs before he turns 18. I have and will continue to give him opportunities to advance but he must want it. I plan on sitting down with the CC and the rest of the committee to discuss this. To me it is cut and dry, if he does not complete the requirements and improve on scout spirit; he does not become an Eagle. It is his choice and his move.

 

[sandspur]

Gutterbird:

You are right. Stick to your guns. The CC needs to have your back but doesnt. Sounds like you are on the right track. However, give a quick read to the thread Eagle Problems.Big to see what can happen if there is a dispute at the end. What if the scout and the parents say we never knew or The SM has it in for us? Document what you say to the scout and his parents in writing and be very specific. Keep copies. Make it clear in writing the scout has not completed a POR and you have issues with his scout spirit requirement (I assume that is the case if he is essentially inactive). If he makes a big push for Eagle and you still dont think he has met requirements, asking the District/Councils advice might be a good move.

 

[eisely]

You, the scout, and the troop are all fortunate that there appears to be plenty of time for the scout to complete the requirements. Having a sit down with the boy and his parents is very wise. Document that meeting with a written note to your file about what exactly was discussed and what commitments were made. Even better, fire off a polite friendly email documenting the meeting. Print out a copy of that email and any responses for your files.

 

A great deal of good could come out of this. First the boy might legitmately earn his eagle. Second the committee will learn something and a better relationship established between the SM and committee. Third all other aspiring eagles, and those who already have earned theirs, will understand the seriousness of the requirements and the award will not be cheapened.

[Lisabob]

Two years is a long time. I have seen a number of scouts lose interest around age 14-15, but come back at late 16/early 17. Maybe the added maturity on his end will turn out to be a big benefit if he becomes active again, going forward. (In which case, while of course he has to meet the requirements as written, I hope you won't hold his intervening absence against him.)

[scoutldr]

"What if the scout and the parents say we never knew or The SM has it in for us?"

 

Are the requirements not written in the scout's Handbook? One solution to this, if the scout doesn't show up and participate, don't recharter him at the end of the year. You have offered him a custom POR and he refused. That would be it for me. If he wants a POR now, he has to be elected, just like everyone else. If he has merit badges left to earn, provide him a copy of the Counselor list and wish him luck. No troop outings in the past 3 years? The first step to success is to show up. I'd be willing to help any scout who asks for it...but they gotta meet me half way.

[John-in-KC]

Please share with us your last Scoutmaster Conference with him...

 

Please share with us the Committee's last non-advancing BOR with him...

 

Please share with us something about your Troops program? How is your SPL? PLC? How much mentoring do you get to do, vice how much decisionmaking you do for the youth?

 

I guess what I'm asking is how is a personal and critical look at how the Adult Association Method implemented in your Troop? Otherwise, I'm with Beavah and Lisabob and nolesrule and eisely...

 

PS: Remind your CC, over a friendly cup of coffee, that the program is your major task, and ask for a clear lane to do your task

[Gutterbird]

"Please share with us your last Scoutmaster Conference with him... "

Last SMC was back in May, the last time he was at a meeting. We discussed his Eagle rank and what he needed to achieve this goal. I tried to find out from him if there were any issues that he thought was slowing him down? Girls, cars, etc. He told me no issues. He was not very talkative and I got the impression he just did not want to participate any more, he just wants his Eagle.

 

"Please share with us the Committee's last non-advancing BOR with him... "

Have not had one. When we hold BOR's he does not come, even when asked.

 

Please share with us something about your Troops program? How is your SPL? PLC? How much mentoring do you get to do, vice how much decision making you do for the youth?

When I came to this troop in Feb 07. There was no adult leader and no real structure to the program. Kids just ran around freely and there was no real "checks and balances". As the new SM, I attended ALL the training and started to transform the troop into a structured Boy Scout program as outlined in the SM handbook and other scouting resources. The troop created patrols with patrol names, flags, etc. Elected PL's, SPL, and filled other various youth positions. Recruited other parents and formed a committee. I started to slowly turn this troop into a scout lead program. Though it did not happen over night it has come a long way. I have always been there for the boys, have worked with them to meet requirements, and gave all the youth leaders TLT. This particular boy was our first SPL; he was very motivated and loved his position as SPL. Then came election time. Several boys expressed interest in becoming the next SPL, we put them all on the ballot, however, this scout no longer wanted to be SPL and did not want to run. That was the beginning of his down hill slide. In a previous SMC I asked if there was any issues when he was SPL that prevented him from running again, answer, no. He just lost interest. Our current SPL is doing a fine job. I spend most of my time with him; he spends most of his time with the PL's and troop. Each patrol has an adult advisor who is there only to advise, not do the work. Patrol meetings were recently held where each patrol picked 3 items that they would like to do, whether it was a particular campout, day trip, trip to water park, whatever, and bring this list to the next PLC and put it on the calendar, as long as the activity was safe and did not violate BSA policy or the Guide to Safe Scouting. This is something we do several times a year to fill the calendar with outdoor activities.

 

I do not know if this is what you where asking John-in-KC, but, thanks for all the responses.