Missing HB = no BOR

[fgoodwin]

Even though the Troop Committee had a full Troopmaster printout of the boy's rank advancements, because he showed up to the BOR without his HB, they denied him a BOR and made him wait another month (our BORs are scheduled ONLY during the monthly Troop Committee Meeting).

 

Now, in fairness, the boy was given the option of going home and returning with his HB, but his parents are divorced, his HB was at the parent's house who was of course out of town, and the other parent had no key or other way to get into the home and retrieve the boy's HB.

 

How do other troops handle this sort of situation?

[Twocubdad]

I would in fact have the boy take his handbook to the board of review. Ask them to show him the requirement to bring his handbook to BORs.

 

Seriously, you need to have conversation with the board. I don't remember your position, FG, but the conversation should come through some combination of the advancement chairman, committee chairman or scoutmaster. Fortunately for me, in my troop, my CC and CA would both have ducks over something like this.

 

Were the board members aware of the boy's situation? Maybe the boy wouldn't have remembered his book anyway, but since it was at his out-of-town parent's house, he really didn't have access to the book in the first place.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Has anyone on the committee gone through training? The boy should not have to confront the committee about this. The SM or other adult leader should inform them of the actual written requirements.

I've heard of this unwritten requirement to bring the HB but we've never had the problem. The boys usually bring it - anyway we haven't added any requirements over those that are actually written.

[Horizon]

For Trail to First Class - the HB is the only record the BOR can use to make sure that the boy is ready for Review. Above First Class, it is necessary to see the sign-offs for SMC, POR and Scout Spirit (assuming the boy has other evidence of merit badges).

 

So the Handbook is the record of advancement. I admit, I don't know how detailed Troopmaster is, but it is the boys' responsibility to track his progress.

 

That all said - the Board can Review him, but perhaps not sign off until they can confirm that the boy has fulfilled the OTHER necessary requirements.

[John-in-KC]

Horizon,

 

Wrong answer. The handbook is a primary source document, but units with good scribes and good Advancement Coordinators post updates to Advancement wall charts and software packages.

 

This is not a reason to hold back a BOR. Sheesh.

[evmori]

The handbook is the Scouts record of his advancement. There is no requirement to even own a handbook let alone bring one to a BOR!

 

It really sucks when adults invent requirements that don't exist! Was this Scout given the denial reason in writing? If not, the BOR is in violation of the advancement policies. The Scout should appeal & ask the BOR where in the requirements it states his handbook is required. Wonder what other "requirements" they have made up!

[FireKat]

We ask for that and some other misc paperwork we have done for our troop but if the boys forget them we hold the board anyway but don't sign off on the board untill he brings it in, usually the next meeting. The date is still the date of the board. We just hold submitting the paperwork to council. Don't punish the boy for extra requirements.

Your rigid schedule is a big problem. See the other thread on rigid BoRs

[Hal_Crawford]

All the advancement records that an Eagle board could find in the handbook is on the Eagle application. All requirements are signed off there. This EBOR is creating an extra and unnecessary requirement. IMHO they should have held the EBOR and IF (and only if) there was some question that could only be answered through examining the book they could have deferred their decision.

 

 

 

[packsaddle]

Hal, he's not asking about an Eagle BOR.

[Twocubdad]

I still stand by what I originally posted and don't disagree with anything anyone has said. But let's not get too far out front of this.

 

Our Scouts are asked to show up for BoR in full class A (we're a full uniform troop, so that usually just means adding a merit badge sash) with their handbooks. For that matter, Scouts T-2-1 should bring their HB to every meeting anyway.

 

I will allow there is some element of discipline and teaching responsibility here. Would you show up for a job interview without your resume or application? If the Scout is responsible for bringing his handbook, it's not the board's job to otherwise solve the problem by going to the Troopmaster records.

 

But your board still handled it poorly, Frank. Given the Scout's home situation, I would have given him some coaching and sympathy and continued the board. "Gee whiz, it must be tough trying to keep track of stuff between your mom's house and dad's. Unfortunately, that means you're going to have to really work at trying to keep up. Maybe you could keep you handbook in your school bookbag so you'll always have it with you." Or something like that.

 

In another situation, I may try to make a point with a Scout, but I would still continue the board. "You've done really well tonight and we're passing you with flying colors, but you know we can't officially sign off on your badge until we're able to review the requirements in your handbook. We'll put things on hold until next week. Bring us your handbook and it will only take a minute or two to finish the board of review."

 

You have to consider each Scout and his situation.

[Lisabob]

My son's troop does this too, although BORs are on demand and not limited to once a month. The explanation given is pretty much what Horizon wrote about the boys being responsible for tracking their own progress and the book being the item of record. Incidentally, I don't know of any boys who have been denied BORs in the last 3 years for this reason - they all know to bring their books, so it has not risen to the level of a challenge.

 

While I am at best ambivalent about this practice and know that it is not supported by the BSA literature, sometimes you have to prioritize with regard to the battles you choose. In this particular case fgoodwin, perhaps a place to start is to ask the BOR to hold a do-over at your next troop meeting, instead of making the boy wait a whole month.

 

 

[evmori]

We ask for that and some other misc paperwork we have done for our troop but if the boys forget them we hold the board anyway but don't sign off on the board untill he brings it in, usually the next meeting. The date is still the date of the board. We just hold submitting the paperwork to council. Don't punish the boy for extra requirements.

 

And what if he has lost it & he brings you a brand new blank HB?

 

Requiring a HB for a BOR is adding to the requirements. And yes I do think each Scout should own one. They are great resources and a great place to keep track of their advancement.

[Eagle92]

While I think the BOR could have handled it differently, I do agree with the overall premise. The book IS the official record. Let's face it if there are errors with the troop and council's records, that book IS the source they go by. Hence the book is needed for the BOR to sign off. It also places responsibility where it belongs, on the scout. It is his book, his bor, his responsibility.

 

As a scout, the HB was considered part of the uniform, you brought it with you everywhere. When my HB broke in half, I made darn sure I kep copies of the signoff section, just in case. Glad I did as the book went missing on a canoeing trip.

 

 

[ghermanno]

Wow!

 

Here's my $0.02 for what it is worth:

 

Asking the Scout to bring his HB is a good idea. Making it a requirement for advancement makes it someone elses Scouting organization. The Scout had to have had the book signed off by his SM for him to be reccomended to the BOR by his SM.

 

In effect, you have denied the Scout the advancement (and the ability to start the clock on the next advancement) based on your own rules and regs. not the BSA rules. The Scout can challange it and get the date changed back to the original if he wishes to go that way.

 

Why, as adults, do we have to show the youth that we can not follow the rules while demanding that they do?

 

Just my $0.02

 

Rick

[FireKat]

Missing/ damaged books have happened. That is when trustworth comes into play. Most of the time the boys and the people who signed their book remember doing it so they go and get the intials redone. date4s are not that critical. In the long run it teaches all to track and backup their info.