MB Quandry

[ghermanno]

I have a bit of a problem.

 

History: I "volunteered" for a District position and was assigned District Boy Scout Advancement Chair.

 

Problem: The units here do NOT want there District to put on a MBU as two other Districts in the Council already do. BUT, our District has noted that boys are being signed off of Merit Badges (for example Nuclear Science)in a one day/couple hour session.

 

District would like to stop it and ensure that boys are getting benefit of the training vice a sign-off but do not know how to stop it as it is another District.

 

Questions: Is there something we (District) can do? The MB Councilers are registered. How do you deny a boy credit for a signed Blue Card (I don't think I can)?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[Gunny2862]

I am thoroughly unqualified to answer this but I would tend to agree that you can't stop previously issued cards from being held as complete.

 

What you might be able to do is dis-enroll as MB counselors the persons you believe are providing "no-value" MB training and certifying them. Or at the least approach your DE about the possibility since it might seem that he would want this stopped also?

[Buffalo Skipper]

I do not see a problem with not running an MBU, especially if it is not wanted by the units. (for those who may want it, send them to the MBU which the other districts are running). But that was not really the crux of your question. This really overlaps with several other topics being discussed currenly in other threads, which is good, as it gives perspective.

 

First, you may want to work to see that MBCs are trained. No, that is not the end-all, be-all answer, but it's a good place to start. Getting the MBCs on board with the process ultimately will provide better service/program to the scouts.

 

Second and just as important (prehaps more so), you need to ensure that the Scoutmasters and unit (advancement) committees are trained as well. This may be a harder nut to crack, but once opened, these may be the people who champion the "right" MB process, fostering an expectation and process in their own units.

 

Doing either of these first two without the other leaves a broken circle, and may cause your effort to eventually loose steam and fall apart.

 

The next question (and I am addressing this now in my district) is how often do you do training? We have done ours once a year, but if a MBC can't make the one session, it breaks the circle (above) and the effort is somewhat meaningless. This is not a lenthy training course, and it can be offerd in a few short hours. Complicating this is the fact that this falls under the training (not advancement) committee, so you will need to work hard to get the training committee working with you on this one. Prehaps the best way to go is to have a training "blitz" with multiple courses being offerd at different locations on different days and times for a month or two. Maybe one concurrent with Roundtable, another at the camporee, a third offered at the leader training sessions or in the room next to Scout Leader Essentials. You get the idea.

 

Another issue is recruiting district Merit Badge Counselors and getting and maintaining MBC lists. This should be a priority as well, and is the responsibility of the Advancement Committee. Likewise, you should have worked with Training committee in advance so that when a new MBC is recruited, you can tell them right away where and when the training will be.

 

There can be a culture surrounding Merit Badges, which may not be a good thing. Working to change this will require a significant amount of effort and perseverence.

[Eagle92]

Are you having the MBC sign onto the district charter as they are supposed to do? Even if they are already registered with a unit, or district for that matter, they must fill out an adult leader application AND MBC survey form (at least in my neck of the woods). MBCs are considered district level scouters, even if they choose to work with only one unit.

 

Also have the MBCs gone through the MBC trainign video, if it's still out there?

[shortridge]

The Scoutmaster can also use his or her discretion in saying "No, sorry... don't go there, try giving Counselor Troi a call instead." Without the SM's signature, they can't proceed.

[Lisabob]

If I am reading this correctly, another district is running a MBU where a counselor from that other district is signing off on merit badges in what appears to be undue haste. Boys from troops in your district sometimes attend and "earn" merit badges at the other district's event.

 

Is that all correct?

 

If it is, then there are some rather limited options for you here, because it is not your district. Now in my council, the district adv. chairs meet periodically at the council advancement committee. If your council does this then there may be an opening there for the discussion across districts about this problem. If you have a council advancement chair (and I bet you do) then you would want to let that person know about the problem and ask him or her to put it on the agenda for discussion at an upcoming council adv. meeting. Maybe approaching it from the perspective of talking in general about the pitfalls of MBUs, rather than dealing with specific counselors by name, would be a good way to get into the matter without ruffling too many feathers. This is a top-down solution where the council tells the districts what to do/not do (hopefully in a way that will be accepted by the districts).

 

Another option is to work with scoutmasters in your district. SMs help guide scouts to a suitable MBC and (if your council uses them) are generally the source for blue cards. SMs could make clear to boys in their troop that merit badge work done without first receiving the name of a suitable counselor and SM-signed blue card may very well not "count." That is a debatable strategy, but it does prevent parents signing their kid up for umpteen badly-run merit badge classes at the other district's MBU, without the scout first talking it over with his SM. This solution puts the burden on the troops to discourage participation in the inferior MBU that the other district offers.

 

Other than that I don't see where you have a lot of opportunity to influence the situation. It would be easier if it were your district running the MBU because then, as advancement chair, you could (perhaps) decide to discontinue that practice.

 

By the way - I've participated in a couple of MBUs. I no longer do so because I wasn't pleased with how it worked out. I reached most of the same conclusions that people have posted on this board. But, one twist was that the MBU in my council was run NOT by the council or district folks, but instead by a service organization that used the MBU as a fund raiser. They were a whole lot less interested in doing right by the boys, than they were in just doing something and making a bit of money. Coordination was poor, MBCs were found at the last minute, classes were either over-subscribed leading to chaos (ever try to do the communications badge with 150 scouts at a time? I don't recommend this) or under-subscribed leading to last minute cancellations and scouts being shunted into other classes that they weren't interested in taking. Because it was being run by an outside group and not by scouting volunteers, it actually could be easier to clean up because the council could pressure the group to change, refuse to share a list of qualified MBCs, or refuse to promote the event. If that's what is happening in your neck of the woods, then you may want to pursue those solutions in addition to the above.

[ScoutNut]

Rick - As I see it, your problem is that boys in your District are going to MBU's in other Districts, and getting signed off completely on difficult MB's, by MBC's at the event, for only a couple of hours of work.

 

Once a registered MBC has signed off on a MB it is a done deal, and no one (including the District Advancement Chair) can take the MB away from the Scout.

 

My question would be - can these MB's realistically be completed, in full, possibly with some work done pre-event, in the time alloted to them at the MBU?

 

If the answer is yes, than you really have no problem.

 

If the answer is no, than you need to have a talk with the DAC from the other District about how their MBU's are run.

 

If you get no help from the other District Advancement Chair, then I would recommend bringing the problem up at your District Committee meeting.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

There is nothing you can do about Scouts who get merit badges from properly registered merit badge counselors, but there is still much you can do. You are the Disitrct Advancement Chair, in the Council I serve, that makes you a member of the Council Advancement Committee. Find out if you are a member of such a Committee and when they meet. If you are not a de facto member find out when they meet anyway and who the Council Chair of Advancement is. Talk to that person, tell him the concerns you and your Disitrct has. It may be no one has complained before. Get on the COuncil Advancement Committee agaenda and ask the Districts who do the merit badge universities how they handle quality control. Don't be too agressive, but yet lay out your concerns as well. Opening with "You guys are teaching garbage" may create a defensive posture whereas asking "How do you guys assure quality?" may start a discussion towards resolution.

[ghermanno]

Thanks guys. That's pretty much what I expected. Just for a background, i am new to this District (Jan this year) but about 18 years of Adult Scouting experience (spread over about 27 years).

 

This situation was brought to my attention by some other adult leaders that have noticed this and discussed it with our DE. Our DE suggested running our own MBU but does not eliminate the other District (I think the boys would still go where it is easiest versus where they are required to do the work.).

 

Yes, pre-MBU requirements can be done on some MB's making them available at MBU's. I asked the Adult Scouters if that were the case and they stated that the boys "only work was at the MBU" and they earned the Nuclear Science as well as the First Aide Merit Badges (both require more than a day).

 

The Units not wanting to have one here is based on the fact that two nearby Districts have MBU's and only three of about 18 Troops responded. The rest ignored the eamil.

 

I will attend a Council planning meeting tonight as well as Roundtable tomorrow evening and try to get the info out that it is best for the boys to learn the information than to "rubber-stamp". Something like "Would you trust your life to a boy that was certified at XXX's MBU for First Aide?".

 

I plan on having training for ALL MBC's the end of this month and next month. I have asked Units to provide me with a best date and I will make myself if not others available. As of yet, none have responded to my offer. This District renews MBC's every March. We will see.

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[Buffalo Skipper]

One more thing you may try is not "advertising" the other MBU to scouts/units in your district. In our district/council, in spite of a council newsletter, roundtables, and innumerable emails being sent out, I would estimate that 1/2 the units don't hear about some of this level event--in our own district. Squelching the announcements should not be too hard.

[John-in-KC]

OGE,

 

I don't want to dispute you, but there is something units can do to keep youth members from going to someone else's Merit Badge Mills.

 

It's called implement the policies in place in ACP&P #33088 and Requirements #33215. I've stated it in a different thread: The Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper. He can tell Bobby Firstclass NO, I will not authorize you to take it from Merit Badge Mill X.

 

What a District Advancement Chair, such as Rick can do is get a minute of time at RT and say something to the Scoutmasters. Rick can also go to his District Publicity chair and ask something be put in the newsletter or online. Rick can work through the Commissioner Service (if there be a strong one in his neck of the Korean woods) and ask them to spread the word that the Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper. Finally, Rick can ask his DE to publish an e-note to Scoutmasters.

 

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Rick, there is a challenge for you, though. I know where you are, and I know how long you have many of your youth members. We need to work within the limitation of their DEROS.

 

How strong are the permanent party Scouters in your District, the semi-permanent ex-pats like you? You need to get a superb roster of Counselors together, guys who will do whatever it takes to help a kid get a badge, particularly if he's in those final couple months before The Big Bird Home.

 

War Story: I remember taking Atomic Energy Merit Badge as a youth. It was sponsored by North American Rockwell's Los Angeles Atomic Energy facility. It was a huge commitment, by parents and Scouts. Eight weeks of 2 hour evenings, small groups working through various parts of the facility. At the end, a gang of qualified folk worked the final counseling piece and exam.

 

Why the story: Think about Aviation MB (you know why I picked that). Think about the facilities you have, think about the people who are available. Don't organize MBUs, but rather organize MB clinical programs... small group (20 youth limit), several Counselors (so you can keep the final testing ratio right as well as the discovery/teaching/learning portions right), lots of demonstrations/exhibits/hands on spread over 4-8 weeks, and finally properly executed final sit-down.

 

With the resources you have at hand, here's just a start:

 

- Citizenship in the Nation

- Citizenship in the World (hey, these kids are expats in their own right)

- Aviation (your particular case)

- Fire Safety

- Engineering

- Fingerprinting (think CID/MPI and MP station would love the chance to show themselves in a positive light?)

- Rifle Shooting/Shotgun shooting ... your DE had better well be willing to waive NRA certification for Armed Forces qualified range officers/NCOICs/armorers and coaches!

- Weather

- Truck Transportation

 

... and that's just a quicky list.

 

HTH, YIS

[Nike]

The MBU is something I first encountered when we moved further south, and I don't really cotton to the idea. But, they seem to love 'em around here. Some are very good and have highly qualified adults leading the classes. I can't recall any that signed off on everything the day of. Most boys leave with partials and need to either reconnect with the MBC or get final signature from a troop MBC. (Our troops are MBC heavy.)

 

If an MBU event is, in the SM's estimation/experience, a substandard event, then don't pass that event info along.

 

 

[ghermanno]

Thanks again guys.

 

I have Roundtable and District Committee meeting tonight. Will see what happens.

 

John, I have moved from the "Land of Almost Right" to "A Whole 'Nother Country" El Paso, TX. (I got laid off).

[John-in-KC]

Rick, OK... another spin on things. There should still be sufficient depth and breadth of folks to get solid merit badge opportunities going.

 

Two things you CAN do:

 

- Train and support your Scoutmasters in their role as gatekeepers.

 

- Go out and visit MB events or mills in your District (even within the Council). Offer friendly, albeit honest feedback to the sponsors, and give feedback on what you see to Scoutmasters.

[ghermanno]

Well, it had at least an inpact. For the four or five Troops that sent leaders to Roundtable, the "You, as the Scoutmasters, are the gatekeepers for teh boys Merit badges" adding that if they "know" the boy is just going to be signed off without doing the requirements, why not just sing it off now and save gas too.

 

A lot of heads sank. Then they asked what "they" could do to get MBU set up to ensure boys did requirements. :-)

 

After a good discussion, they will take it back to Troops and find out what MB's they want and understand a partial is still good if it does the hard part (like visit a reactor).

 

Thanks guys. A lot of the discussion came from the topics in Scouter Forums.

 

YiS,

 

Rick