Suitable Eagle Project

[wbcarley]

I recently took on the Scoutmasters role in my Troop, and one of the (many) things that I have discovered is the appallingly low bar set for Eagle projects. While I have one Eagle candidate who just completed a fine project (reconstructing a trail), for most the expectatuiin is very low. (e.g. I have one proposal which, in its entirety is: "i am looking for and eagle scout project and suggest that scouts meet on weekends for 3 weeks and we help out the elderly with jobs that they cant do like heavy lifting cleaning yard work or any thing else that can be done.")

 

My most recent proposal is from scout who proposes to collect food and then deliver it to a center for low-income families. The scout proposes that he put together a flier for other scouts to hand out and collect donations, post a similar notice in the church bulletin, man a table at the church for 3 weeks to collect donations, then bring the scouts together for a Saturday to bag the donations and drive them to the center.

 

While this seems like a nice thing to do, it doesn't seem to meet the bar for an Eagle project. Specifically, it is hard to see what leadership is required.

 

I would be curious to know what others think.

 

Brennan

 

 

[evmori]

What would you say is "the bar" for an Eagle project, Brennan?

[shortridge]

There's certainly a need for food drives these days. It's hard to argue that.

 

But as described, I'd have some reservations about the scope of that particular project. Most of the burden would seem to be on the church members. That sounds like something a troop could do as part of its own community service work - fairly easy for even a NSP to organize.

 

He could certainly broaden it by putting together a community or interfaith food drive, not restricted to a single church, connecting organizations that don't usually work together. But even in that case, if I were the SM, I'd ask pointed questions such as: How many other food drives have been held in this community in the last year? Who organized them? Is there an existing organization (like a coalition of smaller nonprofits) that already does this?

 

If food is his primary focus, he could consider options including creating a kid-friendly cookbook for latchkey kids - simple and safe recipes they can make on their own while mom and dad are still at work. That could involve organizing Scouts to talk with local cooks and nutritionists, and then testing and writing the recipes.

 

He could start a backpack food program like those that are in place at many schools around the country.

 

He could work with local farmers to organize a "gleanings" effort - if there's not one already - after the fall harvest (if he can wait that long for his project).

[CA_Scouter]

 

 

Had a scout go to the county fair to do an Eagle project, and they suggested building a new bar for the beer concession or parking barricades and directional signs.

 

He chose the latter.

 

 

 

 

[scoutldr]

"Specifically, it is hard to see what leadership is required."

 

Why don't you just tell them that? And they not only need to convince you, they need to convince the District Advancement Committee.

[wbcarley]

EVMORI, my "bar" for this is based on the requirement in the BSA Handbook, i.e. While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to your religious institution, school, or your community.

 

That is further clarified by the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, which says:

 

- you must accept responsibility for planning, directing, and following through to its successful completion.

- The amount of time spent by you in planning your project and the actual working time spent in carrying out the project should be as much as is necessary for you to demonstrate your leadership of others.

 

It also excludes certain things such as:

- "Routine labor (a job or service normally rendered) should not be considered."

- "Projects may not be a fund-raiser. Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials needed to carry out the project."

 

So applying that bar, it is pretty easy for me to see that my scout's proposal to "meet on weekends for 3 weeks and we help out the elderly with jobs that they cant do like heavy lifting cleaning yard work" falls into the (excluded) category of routine labor.

 

In the case of the food drive, it doesn't seem to meet any reasonable definition of the words "planning", "directing" and "leadership of others." i.e. asking people to donate food requires no meaningful planning or directing, and no leadership.

 

Also the requirements explicitly ban fund-raisers, and while this is not a fund-raiser per se, asking people to donate food seems awfully close to asking them to donate money (and in some economies food actually is money!)

 

Not that there is anything wrong with asking people to donate food, nor is this a bad thing for the community. But it still feels like half a project.

 

And per shortridge's comments there already are a number of organizations in the community that do food drives. In fact, when my son heard this proposed Eagle project, he fell down laughing, because he had done a similar project in 6th grade (his school regularly runs food drives and each year a different student runs the food drive.)

 

SHORTRIDGE, thanks for the suggestions... I don't want to torpedo this project because it can help the community, but I need the Scout to beef it up.

 

Brennan

 

 

 

[evmori]

Good bar. Same one I use. Do the projects these Scouts proposed meet this "bar"?

[ScoutNut]

Drives of various kinds are traditional Eagle projects in this area.

 

Nothing wrong with them that I can see. There is nothing in any BSA literature which bans them. There is also nothing in any BSA literature which defines the scope of an Eagle project beyond the simple - "plan, develop, and give leadership to others".

 

BSA does not state how many "others", or how "big" of a project it should be.

 

Please resist the impulse to make it YOUR project.

 

Simply let them know they must put some more thought into, and expand on, the "plan" and "develop" portions of what they have given you.

 

[gcnphkr]

While not a big fan of the food drive for an Eagle Project, I wouldn't rule it out. One of the last EBOR I sat on had a scout who did a clothing drive. A collection drive does not have to be trivial. By extending it to include multiple organizations, over a longer period of time, with ambitious but obtainable goals and then distribute the items to those in need and not just an agency they can demonstrate the leadership required. More than what is involved in reconstructing a trail.

 

As for the no routine labor restriction. This one has bothered my for some time. Can anyone really claim that brush hooking weeds, repositioning rock, back filling ruts and building check dams (most of the activities involved in reconstructing a trail) are not examples of routine labor?(This message has been edited by jet526)

[wbcarley]

evmori, "Do the projects these Scouts proposed meet this "bar"?"

I don't believe so, but I am here seeking other (experienced) opinions.

 

scoutldr, "Why don't you just tell them that?"

I do plan to tell them exactly that, but I wanted to get a sanity check first.

 

ScoutNut "Simply let them know they must put some more thought into, and expand on, the "plan" and "develop" portions of what they have given you."

That's what I plan to do.

 

jet526 "By extending it to include multiple organizations, over a longer period of time, with ambitious but obtainable goals and then distribute the items to those in need and not just an agency they can demonstrate the leadership required."

I like those ideas. As it stands, the proposal is simply to collect food via the church and other scouts, and drop it off at the agency. Your suggestions would make it cross the threshold to make it an Eagle project in my eyes.

 

Brennan

 

 

[evmori]

evmori, "Do the projects these Scouts proposed meet this "bar"?"

I don't believe so, but I am here seeking other (experienced) opinions.

[wbcarley]

EVMORI,

 

Um, I thought I answered the question of why they didn't meet the bar in an earlier post.

 

i.e.

 

- Rounding up a few scouts to help out some elderly folk with "heavy lifting cleaning yard work" falls into the (excluded) category of routine labor.

 

- In the case of the food drive, as currently defined it doesn't seem to meet any reasonable definition of the words "planning", "directing" and "leadership of others."

 

Brennan

[evmori]

Well, those are your opinions why. Look at the projects with the Eagle project guidelines then answer the question.

[wbcarley]

Evmori, I may be slow, but you are going to have be more clear.

 

You suggest that I " Look at the projects with the Eagle project guidelines then answer the question."

 

I have looked at them with the definition from the Handbook (While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to your religious institution, school, or your community.) and with the clarification from the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook.

 

So my (initial) determination that they don't meet the criteria is merely my opinion, it is my interpretation of the guidelines. Admittedly different people will interpret words like "plan" and "leadership", and we could get very Clintonesque (define "it" and define "relations"), but I think my interpretation is reasonable.

 

Of course it could be that most Scouters interpret these words differently, which is why I am asking for what others think.

 

I would love to hear what you think.

 

Brennan

[SSScout]

Is this a "special" colection, that is not ordinarily done? Or is it a mere extention of a regular, usual, ongoing collection? Our Council does "Scouting for Food" in Novenber for a local agency that collects and distributes food to needy folks. It is not an Eagle project, but is Council sponsored. The SfF collects well over 50% of the pantry's total yearly supply.

The scope of your Eagle's project needs to be considered. Could it be expanded to include the whole county? The whole District? The whole Council? Now, there would be leadership demonstrated! Get others to help write letters, contact community leaders, news media, etc.

 

Bon appetite!