Why First Class First Year?

[Beavah]

 

Figured I'd spin this off from da parent thread just because it seemed like a good separate thread without hijacking the original.

 

Firecat asks:

 

Who came up with the idea of 'first class, first year' and why?

 

Most kids are not emotionally ready for any of the responsibilities of the rank which can lead to feelings of failure. Kinda doesent seem to be working in our troop. It is either creating power crazy 'leaders' who just sit back and give orders or ones that avoid trying leadership.Do any of you have the same trouble? How have you handled it?

 

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

BSA claims that boys who make first class in one year are more likely to stay in Scouting. I have a feeling that their data and analysis is horribly skewed.

 

I think that making first class quickly is more important to the parents than it is to the scouts. Just like in the martial arts getting a thousand belts with stripes and dots and other things is important to the parents.

 

I think that the kids really care more about doing stuff than they do about the patches. However, now we've made advancement sooo easy that very few Scouts care about it or the stuff that they have to do.

 

If BSA went back to a system where you couldn't work on three ranks at once and made an emphasis on learning skills to some reasonable degree of mastery, I don't think that that we'd lose many boys.

[Gold Winger]

I'm still pondering this issue. I wonder if years and years ago, that BSA noticed that the boys who made first class fastest were more likely to stay in Scouting. Rather than examine WHY they made first class quickly they decided to make the goal to reach first class quickly.

 

Back in the day, why would a boy reach first class quickly? BECAUSE HE WAS MOTIVATED and the program allowed him to do so.

 

Now, no motivation is needed other than showing up.

 

 

[evmori]

I think it was to get Scouts through the basics faster. The only problem I see with this is faster isn't necessarily better. I feel the more time spent learning, the better the retention. The better the retention, the better the Scout.

 

Remember, FCFY is nothing more than an option. It is by no means required.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[OldGreyEagle]

This is my understanding of First Class First Year:

 

First Class First Year is a committment that a Troop makes to its First Year Scouts that it present a program that will allow an active scout to achieve First Class in one year. It is not about lessening or eliminating requirements. It is not a promise that every scout will be a First Class scout in one year, the scout still has to go on the outings and perform the requirements.

 

As far as I have seen, each unit decides who will sign off requirements and establishes an acceptable level of peformance. It is the responsibility of each unit to assure the requirements are met and that the scout has an opportunity to use the skills presented in the journey from Scout to First Class.

 

Why First Class First year? Why not have a program that would allow an active scout to advance to First Class in a year. They still have to do the work and know their stuff

[Beavah]

Yah, da historical change was based on analysis of a bunch of different trends, eh?

 

1) A lot of attrition happens in the first year of Boy Scouting.

 

2) Boys who make First Class tend to stay in Boy Scouting.

 

3) Young boys are intimidated by older boys and sometimes the older boys aren't the most welcoming.

 

4) Large, successful troops often did some sort of special "orientation" program for new boys.

 

Put 'em all in the stew and yeh get New Scout Patrols (#4), with select TG's and a designated ASM (#3), and First Class emphasis (#2) all to reduce first year attrition (#1). This was also when youth members were dropped from BOR's (#3).

 

Well-intended program changes based on real data.

 

Perhaps not the right data nor da best reasoning, but that's always da danger with statistics.

 

Beavah

 

[Trevorum]

I think OGE has it right. Our troop provides the opportunity for a new fellow to achieve 1st Class within a year of joining. We have an orientation for parents and let them know this is an achievable goal for their newly minted Scout. However, it is not expected. And the Scout has to work hard; just "showing up" won't get him very far. That said, GW has a good point: some sprouts aren't really into the goal-oriented achievement thing (yet) - they just want to have fun camping and hiking and swimming and fishing and canoeing and caving and, oh look! You've just earned First Class!

[scoutldr]

GW said, "BSA claims that boys who make first class in one year are more likely to stay in Scouting. I have a feeling that their data and analysis is horribly skewed."

 

I think the real story is that the data showed that most boys who dropped out were not yet FC. Therefore, the solution from Irving was to spoonfeed them FC as soon as possible, ignoring all the other variables. Now we're scratching our heads, "I don't know why he got bored and quit...he got FC by the time he was 12, and all he had left to get Eagle were troop-taught merit badges."

 

Advancement should be a by-product of the program, not vice versa. Just because boys are advancing and you're cranking out Eagles doesn't mean you have a good program.

 

 

 

[starwolfmom]

In my sons' troop, I have to admit that I'm less than thrilled with the way they rush boys through to First Class. My younger son, who crossed over last February, came home from a meeting in October (8 months as a Boy Scout) and announced that he was First Class. He seemed a little surprised, and I was a lot surprised. How was that even possible? Yes, he had done the "Netomi Trail" at summer camp that took him through a lot of the T-2-1 requirements, and he had participated in every event and campout offered by the troop, including a four-day canoeing trip during which the younger lads worked on advancement, but I didn't think he really had done everything yet.

 

I pulled his book, found the requirement that states, "Visit and discuss with a selected individual approved by your leader (elected official, judge, attorney, civil servant, principal, teacher) your consitutional rights and obligations as a U.S. citizen." It was signed off by one of the troop's ASMs. I asked my son,"Do you remember doing this?" He was confused, but thought that they had probably discussed it when they were doing advancement stuff during the canoe trip camping weekend. He couldn't even really remember what they had discussed, only that they did and the requirement was signed off.

 

I wasn't really thrilled about this, but he was so happy to have made FC that I didn't want to pee in his cheerios and tell him that I didn't think he had really done all the requirements yet. My older son wasn't really thrilled either. When he was 11, he and his patrol went and visited one of our city council members, who gave them a tour of city hall, let them sit in the council chambers, and chatted with them about their rights and responsibilities as U.S. citizens. The boys then reported back at a troop meeting about what they had learned.

 

But in the six years since the older boy did that, the troop seems to have shifted in its outlook and is more concerned about rushing boys to rank and not really giving them a real understanding of what it is they're supposed to be learning. At a recent meeting, the SM announced that by now, all of the new boys have done enough that they should have the camping and cooking MBs. Well, if they haven't intentionally been working on those badges, have they really "earned" them? Same with OA eligibility. All of the new laddies are eligible for OA election in the spring. And guess what? They'll probably all be elected in, too. That's all very nice, but if everyone in the troop is in OA, is it really all that special of an honor?

 

My older son is disgruntled with the way he sees the troop going--he just want to finish up his Eagle (two more badges and his project) and be done with it. (this is a kid who has really earned all his badges. He won't have anything to do with a "merit badge blitz" or "college" because he thinks that's the lazy way out.) He keeps his grumbles for my ears, though, because Scouting is still fresh and exciting for his little brother.

 

Elizabeth

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Great post Starwolfmom, now, does your elder son see the issue as being in the First Class First Year program or in the Troop administration of FCFY?

[jr56]

I have never bought into the FCFY program either, you get a bunch of young, first class scouts who are now expected to do first class scout things such as troop leadership positions, eligiability for OA, and they are in no way ready for any of it.

[starwolfmom]

OGE--I don't think I would dignify our troop's push for FCFY with the title of "program." It's not like we have a new scout patrol, a troop guide, or an ASM dedicated solely to the newer boys. It's just that there seems to be a "rush" to get stuff "out of the way" and get all the boys to FC. That "rush" didn't seem to be there six years ago; I'm not sure what's changed.

 

Elizabeth

[starwolfmom]

"you get a bunch of young, first class scouts who are now expected to do first class scout things such as troop leadership positions, eligiability for OA, and they are in no way ready for any of it."

 

I agree. Our Scoutmaster asked me if both of my boys planned on working at the Scout Service Camp on Mackinac Island this coming summer. I was a little taken aback and expressed the opinion that my younger son was too young to go. He said that as long as he was FC, he could go. (My older son didn't go his first time until the summer after 8th grade; my younger son is currently in sixth grade.)

 

I asked my younger son if he wanted to go and he said, no, he didn't think he was ready. Also, it's his older brother's last year to go (he'll be ASPL for the contingent) and he knew that big brother wouldn't want him underfoot. By waiting a year, big brother gets his last hurrah without little bro there, and the next year, little bro gets to go without being in the shadow of big bro. I thought that showed a lot of insight and maturity on little bro's part and I agreed with his assessment.

 

Elizabeth

 

[evmori]

What's the rush? Where are the numbers to back up FCFY? To me, it's just a way to rush kids through the early ranks. It makes ya wonder if they learn anything at all!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed New Year to all

[FScouter]

Clarifying what OGE hinted at, pushing boys through rank requirements with a minimum of skill development or learning is NOT the BSA First Class, First Year program. Rushing, pushing, and presenting a badge is NOT FCFY. Lets not sully the name of FCFY with examples of troop practices which have nothing to do with the BSA advancement program.