Its Me Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 If these look essntially the same to me. Cooking MB 3) Plan a menu for two straight days (six meals) of camping. Include the following: a) A camp dinner with soup; meat, fish, poultry, or an appropriate substitute; two fresh vegetables; drink; and dessert. All are to be properly prepared. When preparing your menu, follow the nutritional guidelines set by the food pyramid. b) A one-pot dinner. Use foods other than canned. c) Using the menu planned for requirement 3, make a food list showing cost and amount needed to feed three or more boys. d) List the utensils needed to cook and serve these meals. First Class: 4a. Help plan a patrol menu for one campout that includes at least one breakfast, one lunch, and one dinner, and that requires cooking at least two of the meals. Tell how the menu includes the foods from the food pyramid and meets nutritional needs. 4b. Using the menu planned in requirement 4a, make a list showing the cost and food amounts needed to feed three or more boys and secure the ingredients. 4c. Tell which pans, utensils, and other gear will be needed to cook and serve these meals. 4d. Explain the procedures to follow in the safe handling and storage of fresh meats, dairy products, eggs, vegetables, and other perishable food products. Tell how to properly dispose of camp garbage, cans, plastic containers, and other rubbish I am sure they look identical to a 13 year old. Didn't I do that when..... Do we? and how do we convince the scout that these are seperate and that the slate must be clean when he begins his merit badge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Why? If a Scout is working on both the cooking MB and 1st Class, why make him do the work twice? The only "rule" as such would be that he can not use any activities from before he actually started the Merit Badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Let me try that the other way around. If they did it for the MB (say, at summer camp) does it automatically "count" for the 1st cl req. too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 The general rule of thumb is that Merit Badge work can be used to fulfill rank requirements but can not be used to fulfill other merit badge requirements. Example is hikes used to fulfill hiking merit badge can be used to fulfill 2nd and 1st class rank requirements but not requirements for backpacking or camping. That being said I have to ask how this "duel credit" is being established. Is the scout asking to be signed off for First Class cooking requirements because he has Cooking merit badge or is he asking his meritbadge counselor for credit on Cooking merit badge because he is First Class? The actual requirements are different "Plan a menu" and "Help plan a patrol menu" are not the same. "Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch" "Sleep in a tent you pitched" sound familiar? The rank requirements are usually worded to take into account the fact that a boy is a member of his patrol. Merit Badge work is usually worded with the intent that the boy is doing the requirements on his own. LongHaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eolesen Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 You can also use the requirements for the Camping MB to simultaneously meet (and exceed) the requirements for First Class: 8c. Prepare a camp menu. Explain how the menu would differ from a menu for a backpacking or float trip. Give recipes and make a food list for your patrol. Plan two breakfasts, three lunches, and two suppers. Discuss how to protect your food against bad weather, animals, and contamination. 8d. Cook at least one breakfast, one lunch, and one dinner for your patrol from the meals you have planned for requirement 8c. At least one of those meals must be a trail meal requiring the use of a lightweight stove. But, as stated, the requirements for Cooking MB cannot be used to meet the cooking requirements in the Camping MB(This message has been edited by eolesen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlg0171 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 We run into this with First Class Cooking and a similar Camping MB requirement. Don't get caught up in the legalese. Is it asking too much for a scout to plan and cook meals for a campout? Why consider it a negative? Sounds like fun and learning to me. There are reasons we see some things more than once. - The scout gets better. - He relearns things he forgot. - Two requirements that seem the same, really aren't. Many (most?) MBs start with first aid related to that MB. Should we skip it because the scout earned the First Aid MB three years ago? NO! We do it again to reinforce his first aid knowledge. We also get a question about visiting a town council meeting in Communications and Cit. in the Community. But if you read them, they are very different requirements. One is about town business. The other is about how people communicate. So don't get caught by that trap. Here's a way to deal with a scout: SCOUT: "But I already did that for (insert MB, rank, school project). LEADER: "Super! Then you already know how to do it. I bet you'll do even better this time." When it's a skill like orienting a map or tying a knot, we often discover they don't remember how to do it. Which proves our point. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo1 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I can see it both ways, why repeat something if he's already done it. On the other hand, why not encourage PROFICIENCY at the cooking and menu planning rather than just checking the box and getting it signed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 If the Scout has a signed merit badge card for cooking before he starts the 1st Class requirement, then why shouldn't they count for both? And visa versa like LisaBob posted? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I guess I'm old skewl on this one... Do the 2d Class and First Class cooking in sequence, building the Scouts' most basic ability to burn the meat and scorch the oatmeal Then, let them attack the Merit Badge and improve their skills, so that they don't scorch the milk when scalding it for a sourdough starter! I AM old skewl on this; Cooking was an Eagle Required MB when I was a youth. I've written before that if I were the National Advancement Chair for 1 day, it would be again. I believe it a fundamental and essential skill of adulthood in the 21st Century, much as First Aid and Personal Management are! Yes, you can do them concurrently, but, from my personal perspective, I'd urgently recommend doing them sequentially. My thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I'm in agreement with John, Gonzo, and mlg on this one, actually, but I can see where a scout might ask the question the original poster started with (or the other way around). And as I watch my son work his way through the cooking MB, I'm finding he is taking a lot more interest in how his patrol does menu planning and cooking, AS WELL AS cooking at home (oh joy!). He already has the sign offs for his rank but somehow, working on the MB, it is all just coming together for him. I'm glad he is doing these separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Just a question here and not a criticism. If a boy has one of the outdoor group Cooking, Camping , Hiking, Backpacking should the counselor for all the others just accept that requirement 1 has been partially if not completely satisfied? I've never seen in print that work for one badge cannot be used for completing another, except where it is specifically noted in the requirements book and then it usually references another badge. Got another wrinkle as long as we are being specific, as a Swimming merit badge counselor I am not designated as a person allowed to sign off rank requirements for most troops. SO if a boy that is not already 1st Class and does not have the swimming requirements signed off in his book comes to me with a signed Blue Card am I supposed to tell him I can't work with him on anything except requirements 1 & 2? Req #3 specifically states that before he does anything else he must COMPLETE the 2nd class and 1st Class requirements. The requirement is not complete until it is signed off, if I have the boy do the things listed and his SM does not accept my authority then the requirements are not complete and the boy should not have gone forward. LongHaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eolesen Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I'm all for reviving Cooking as a white ringer. And while we're at it, there probably needs to be a Laundry MB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Personally I've always thought there should be a sewing merit badge. Not just patches and buttons either. LongHaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Sewing sounds so wussy, now a Tailoring Merit badge, that has potential. How to do patches on the uniform would be one requirement, whipping up 4 costumes for a skit, that would be included and how to iron and hang the garments as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS-CS_leader Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I've spun off a new thread about the idea of a sewing merit badge: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewthread.asp?threadID=171435 In brief, I think that sewing can be seen as an outdoor skill and thus relevant to Boy Scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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